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pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 12:34 PM
So Peruta just posted a list of guns that were melted down at the SD buyback recently over at OCDO. Reposting it here.

Notice all the gang-banger guns they melted down, like hunting shotguns and classic .22 rifles. I only tallied 5 firearms and it is nearly 2000 dollars in value.

Looks like they netted one so-called "assault weapon", the J&R Eng. M68 9mm.

http://ctgunrights.com/00.ca.docs/Buyback/Gun%20Buy%20back%20list%202009%20final.pdf

BigDogatPlay
12-28-2009, 12:40 PM
What a shame....

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 12:45 PM
This certainly gives me ideas though...

freonr22
12-28-2009, 12:48 PM
universal m1 ..

zman
12-28-2009, 12:52 PM
Man! That's a lot of rimfire firearms :eek:

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 1:03 PM
Man! That's a lot of rimfire firearms :eek:

At 50 a pop, a few Boy Scout troops could have been armed with classic firearms.

What a waste. It makes me sad...

lomalinda
12-28-2009, 1:16 PM
#13, a RR-listed rifle.

SixPointEight
12-28-2009, 1:23 PM
I see a mossberg 500...what appears to be a mosin, and some .22

Glad all those gangsters don't have mosins and .22s anymore

JDoe
12-28-2009, 1:26 PM
I shouldn't have clicked on that PDF file, it makes me ill to see the complete lack of regard some people have for firearms.

TaxAnnihilator
12-28-2009, 1:31 PM
Does this list look like "family" guns that were not properly planned for in an estate plan!?

"Ah, I don't shoot grandpa's gun anymore/ever... what I can get money!?"

I also blame this on the perceived difficulty in transferring/selling firearms. If these people only knew what they had! Leave your guns to someone who won't do this to them. :(

Nxd9ar15xcrL
12-28-2009, 1:31 PM
Wow. I feel sooooooooo much safer with those off the street.

Complete waste of Taxpayer money.

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 1:36 PM
The best part is that none of the guns taken in had their serial numbers run OR had a ballistics check done.

So it looks like SDPD broke quite a few laws in one day.

dfletcher
12-28-2009, 1:37 PM
Good thing they got that CVA rifle off the street. Probably prevented a Amish drive by ......

Crazed_SS
12-28-2009, 1:37 PM
Meh, they probably wouldnt have gotten more than 100 bucks for them at a shop anyway.

I tried to sell my Remington 710 to a couple of shops around here and they only wanted to give me 80 bucks or so for it. It's in perfect condition with no more than 100rds through it. I know it's not the best rifle, but 80 bucks! :(

I just kept it.

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 1:40 PM
Meh, they probably wouldnt have gotten more than 100 bucks for them at a shop anyway.

I tried to sell my Remington 710 to a couple of shops around here and they only wanted to give me 80 bucks or so for it. It's in perfect condition with no more than 100rds through it. I know it's not the best rifle, but 80 bucks! :(

I just kept it.

Then private sale? Put any of those guns on C-list or CGN and you will have them gone in 3 days tops.

ponderosa
12-28-2009, 1:44 PM
What a shame....

my thoughts exactly. morons :nuts:

CitaDeL
12-28-2009, 1:56 PM
At 50 a pop, a few Boy Scout troops could have been armed with classic firearms.

What a waste. It makes me sad...

As I noted on OCDO, .22s are certainly workable to teach firearms safety and basic marksmanship to 8-12 y/o... Would have been a better use even if a contributor could cough up say, $75 a gun.

bodger
12-28-2009, 2:44 PM
Disgusting waste of good firearms. A Ruger Security Six, a Ruger 10/22, and on and on.

Well, at least Nate saved a good shotgun from going into the smelter.

SteveH
12-28-2009, 2:46 PM
With the exception of the Ruger MkII and Security Six it looks like a bunch of junk.

professorhard
12-28-2009, 2:50 PM
LOL like 75% are old a** .22 rifles. Way to make the streets safer. I bet the squirrel population feels a little better tho

bigcalidave
12-28-2009, 2:58 PM
Wonder if the media will run any story about the amazing amount of .22s that the buyback took out of the hands of dangerous criminals !! Lots of liquor stores being held up at riflepoint by a bolt action .22... Ugh

tankerman
12-28-2009, 3:16 PM
Does this list look like "family" guns that were not properly planned for in an estate plan!?

"Ah, I don't shoot grandpa's gun anymore/ever... what I can get money!?"

I also blame this on the perceived difficulty in transferring/selling firearms. If these people only knew what they had! Leave your guns to someone who won't do this to them. :(

90%+ of those guns were pure junk and probably not worth $50. Not every gun is a good gun.

Winchester 1906 and the Colt 'Peacemaker 22 were about the only two items that interested me.

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 3:24 PM
With the exception of the Ruger MkII and Security Six it looks like a bunch of junk.

Are you insane? Pick any page of that document and I will find 5 guns that anyone would be proud to own.

shadow-ote
12-28-2009, 3:25 PM
This my be a silly question, but when a (presumed) lawfully held firearm is transferred to a LEO via one of these programs or a simple hand over, how is it done legally without a FFL present and recording it in accord with state and federal law?

SteveH
12-28-2009, 3:33 PM
Are you insane? Pick any page of that document and I will find 5 guns that anyone would be proud to own.

No, But I'm at a point in my life where quality matters more than quantity. pot metal .22's and .25's do not appeal to be. Neither do worn and rusted 22 rifles that sold for $70 new. I wouldnt give $50.00 for a NIB Mosseberg 500 let alone a used one.

The Smith & wesson revolvers depending on condition may have been acceptable truck guns. Though one was in .32. The universal M1 carbine might have had a good receiver for a new build inspite of being a blue sky stamped re-import.

BigDogatPlay
12-28-2009, 3:35 PM
This my be a silly question, but when a (presumed) lawfully held firearm is transferred to a LEO via one of these programs or a simple hand over, how is it done legally without a FFL present and recording it in accord with state and federal law?

Because they are the police.... they need no silly FFL's to transfer stuff into their hands. Just ask, they'll tell you.

But seriously, a firearm can be surrendered to a peace officer. It's considered an operation of law as per 12078 PC.

(6) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 and subdivision (b) of
Section 12801 do not apply to sales, deliveries, or transfers of
firearms to authorized representatives of cities, cities and
counties, counties, or state or federal governments for those
governmental agencies where the entity is acquiring the weapon as
part of an authorized, voluntary program where the entity is buying
or receiving weapons from private individuals. Any weapons acquired
pursuant to this paragraph shall be disposed of pursuant to the
applicable provisions of Section 12028 or 12032.

tankerman
12-28-2009, 3:57 PM
Dude, if you you think Ruger is better than Colt and Winchester, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Ruger = Pot metal
Because they are the police.... they need no silly FFL's to transfer stuff into their hands. Just ask, they'll tell you.

But seriously, a firearm can be surrendered to a peace officer. It's considered an operation of law as per 12078 PC.

zhyla
12-28-2009, 3:59 PM
I wouldnt give $50.00 for a NIB Mosseberg 500 let alone a used one.

Uh... what? I would will buy as many $50 500's as I can get my hands on. Aside from being decent shotguns they easily sell for 3-4x that price. I think next time we do a buyback down here I'll have to go talk someone into PPTing a shotgun or 5.

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 4:00 PM
Because they are the police.... they need no silly FFL's to transfer stuff into their hands. Just ask, they'll tell you.

But seriously, a firearm can be surrendered to a peace officer. It's considered an operation of law as per 12078 PC.

Does 12028 and/or 12032 allow law enforcement to NOT run the serial number and NOT run a ballistics check?

Seesm
12-28-2009, 4:04 PM
Weird I could not open the pdf.

Gryff
12-28-2009, 4:10 PM
Wasn't odd the number of Rohm guns on that list? I also wonder what guns are now in some department's home safe.

pullnshoot25
12-28-2009, 4:10 PM
No, But I'm at a point in my life where quality matters more than quantity. pot metal .22's and .25's do not appeal to be. Neither do worn and rusted 22 rifles that sold for $70 new. I wouldnt give $50.00 for a NIB Mosseberg 500 let alone a used one.

The Smith & wesson revolvers depending on condition may have been acceptable truck guns. Though one was in .32. The universal M1 carbine might have had a good receiver for a new build inspite of being a blue sky stamped re-import.

Even the most used and abused old .22 rifles are worth more than the nicest .22s made today.

tankerman
12-28-2009, 4:14 PM
Weird I could not open the pdf.

I can't open PDF's with Google Chrome, have to switch to Internet Explorer.

JDoe
12-28-2009, 4:18 PM
This my be a silly question, but when a (presumed) lawfully held firearm is transferred to a LEO via one of these programs or a simple hand over, how is it done legally without a FFL present and recording it in accord with state and federal law?

...a firearm can be surrendered to a peace officer. It's considered an operation of law as per 12078 PC.

What about federal law?

Timberwolf
12-28-2009, 4:19 PM
Some of those were classics - what a shame

tankerman
12-28-2009, 4:52 PM
I've put some loads in my "pot metal" rugers that would blow even the best of my Colts to pieces.
Handling hot loads have nothing to do with a firearms quality. Though Super Redhawks are multi-function, can double as a boat anchor.

But if you do want to go that route, my FA will be around long after your Ruger blows up.

bodger
12-28-2009, 4:54 PM
Does 12028 and/or 12032 allow law enforcement to NOT run the serial number and NOT run a ballistics check?


Wait until the cops take one of these guns in from a buyback, and then some perp confesses to using it in a 187. And admits that after the crime, he came up with the bright idea of bringing it to the cops for smelting, thereby insuring destruction of the murder weapon.

gadjeep
12-28-2009, 5:08 PM
Speechless...

cbn620
12-28-2009, 8:26 PM
I see a couple of what could have been Mosins, SKS or maybe even SVT (who knows?). Several Mossberg .22's, some of those old guns were damn nice for the low cost and there are a lot of enthusiasts of those fine old guns. I own one of them from Mossberg that needs a mag and trigger guard-- I'd have paid 50 bucks for those together alone, let alone the rifle. I see a Ruger Security Six in .357, those go for 500 some times and are getting rare. I think those Security Six are some of the finest Rugers ever made and they don't make em anymore, they make that GP101 or whatever with uggo plastic grips.

They listed a Japanese military in .30-06... that's gotta be a mistake. Who knows what it was though, probably an Arisaka. Those guns are already kind of expensive, and parts are rare. All those military and unknown military types listed, who knows what they were. They listed a Universal M1... assuming a carbine. There's at least 400, 500 bucks. I've seen em in gun shops for as much as 800.

Shame, shame, shaaaaaame. I'd have paid 50 bucks for any of those guns, even the cheapest ones, even broken.

RimfireJim
12-28-2009, 9:08 PM
Even the most used and abused old .22 rifles are worth more than the nicest .22s made today.

Come on, Nate, gimme a break! You're way out to lunch on that one. There are some excellent .22 rifles being made today that anyone in their right mind, barring some sentimental attachment to the "used and abused old", would trade up to if they had the chance. Ever hear of Anschutz, for example?

GuyW
12-28-2009, 9:17 PM
The universal M1 carbine might have had a good receiver for a new build inspite of being a blue sky stamped re-import.

??

In addition to others already listed, a Smith Model 10 and a High Standard 101 aren't junk....

.

REH
12-28-2009, 9:19 PM
Colt Peacemaker .22???? Sure feel safe now. Maybe get the kids out for a walk.

ccandgc
12-28-2009, 9:24 PM
yeah....no more drive by's using an Arisaka.....puhleese.....

nick
12-28-2009, 9:34 PM
Pity about those Tanforglio mouseguns, I wouldn't mind having them...

Quite a few C&R battle rifles, too. Sad.

Colt-45
12-28-2009, 9:43 PM
That list makes me feel suspicious.... I'm pretty sure they kept the good ones......;)

6079Winston
12-28-2009, 9:55 PM
Do they check to see if any of these guns are stolen so they can be returned to their owners or are they just destroyed? Also, how can they determine if they are stolen without getting the make and model correct?

Eat Dirt
12-28-2009, 10:21 PM
I just saw the Mossberg.22's on the list
I think I'm going to be ill

I've been wanting a Mossberg M 44 for so long

Eat Dirt
12-28-2009, 10:25 PM
They listed a Japanese military in .30-06... that's gotta be a mistake. Who knows what it was though, probably an Arisaka.

Shame, shame, shaaaaaame. I'd have paid 50 bucks for any of those guns, even the cheapest ones, even broken.


I've heard of it being done to rifles that guys brought back way back when
Or somebody just took a guess as to what cal. it was

nick
12-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Do they check to see if any of these guns are stolen so they can be returned to their owners or are they just destroyed? Also, how can they determine if they are stolen without getting the make and model correct?

What, you take that silly private property thingy seriously? If you buy stolen goods, they become yours to dispose of as you please, right?

zatoh
12-28-2009, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by cbn620 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3559300#post3559300)

They listed a Japanese military in .30-06... that's gotta be a mistake. Who knows what it was though, probably an Arisaka.

Shame, shame, shaaaaaame. I'd have paid 50 bucks for any of those guns, even the cheapest ones, even broken.



I've heard of it being done to rifles that guys brought back way back when
Or somebody just took a guess as to what cal. it was

Wonder how many of those were bring backs? I think some Arisakas were re-chambered for 30-06 for arming the South Koreans after the war and I sort of remember them being sold here for a time. I think my bro might have one.

Sad. Sad. Sad.

Racefiend
12-28-2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah, I'm sure those Japanese 30 cal rifles were grandpas war trophy Arisakas. Thats just wrong. Probly had full Chrysanthemums on them too.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 12:19 AM
Come on, Nate, gimme a break! You're way out to lunch on that one. There are some excellent .22 rifles being made today that anyone in their right mind, barring some sentimental attachment to the "used and abused old", would trade up to if they had the chance. Ever hear of Anschutz, for example?

Sentimentality is a fairly strong factor and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Anschutz rifles are nice, that is true.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 12:20 AM
What, you take that silly private property thingy seriously? If you buy stolen goods, they become yours to dispose of as you please, right?

AFAIK, if you receive stolen property, you are in deep bandini.

AndrewMendez
12-29-2009, 12:46 AM
I have not heard of a Drive by with a Mosin...maybe SD does it differently! Did they say how many guns where used in Crimes??

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 12:57 AM
I have not heard of a Drive by with a Mosin...maybe SD does it differently! Did they say how many guns where used in Crimes??

Seen a few walk-up bayonetings but that's about it ;)

No serials were run nor were any ballistics tests conducted so there is no knowing if any of the guns used were used in a crime.

AndrewMendez
12-29-2009, 1:01 AM
Seen a few walk-up bayonetings but that's about it ;)

No serials were run nor were any ballistics tests conducted so there is no knowing if any of the guns used were used in a crime.

Way to make a difference, I bet they did run the serial numbers, and where pissed when they came out unsuccessful in finding anything that was actually stolen or used in a crime. Then how would they be able to continue to get the private citizens to donate so much money!!??

nick
12-29-2009, 1:44 AM
AFAIK, if you receive stolen property, you are in deep bandini.

Not if you're a LEA, apparently.

AndrewMendez
12-29-2009, 2:01 AM
The news would portray it like this:

Innocent San Diego Family shanked to death by a M44 Assault Rifle's bayonet!

AJAX22
12-29-2009, 6:58 AM
Someone turned in an astra camper .22

That really pisses me off.

I've been trying to score a camper .22 barrel for two years now.... they are extremely hard to come by.

And a liberty 1914 patent pistol.... those are amazing bits of history.

AEC1
12-29-2009, 7:09 AM
It hurts to see that list. I am pretty pissed that they didnt at least check to see if they were stolen. I have 3 stolen ion the past and I would raise cain if I even thought that they might have been destroyed by the PD and not returned to me...

bodger
12-29-2009, 7:40 AM
I find it very difficult to believe the cops don't run the serial numbers on those weapons. If they truly don't, it's negligent.

I have to believe if some gangsta looking dudes rolled up and opened the trunk to turn in a couple of unregistered assault weapons, the "no questions asked" rule is going to undergo a revamp on the spot.

But that's a scenario not likely to occur.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 9:51 AM
I find it very difficult to believe the cops don't run the serial numbers on those weapons. If they truly don't, it's negligent.

I have to believe if some gangsta looking dudes rolled up and opened the trunk to turn in a couple of unregistered assault weapons, the "no questions asked" rule is going to undergo a revamp on the spot.

But that's a scenario not likely to occur.

They didn't in this instance, just another example of "super-citizens" adding another law broken to their cop cards.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 10:18 AM
I just read through a bunch of CA statutes concerning serial numbers and returning stolen property.

Initial analysis: THE COPS WILLFULLY BROKE THE LAW!

Link here (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTQwZ3JmeHc4aGQ&hl=en)

TaxAnnihilator
12-29-2009, 10:32 AM
90%+ of those guns were pure junk and probably not worth $50. Not every gun is a good gun.

Winchester 1906 and the Colt 'Peacemaker 22 were about the only two items that interested me.

Does it have to be a "good gun" to be worth more than the cash you get for it? As others have mentioned, these have history, can be used for training youth, parts...

I guess I am just sentimental about keeping these "not good" guns around for the enjoyment of others.

:willy_nilly:

Hozr
12-29-2009, 10:45 AM
Thank god all those evil .22's are off the streets. I feel so much safer now.

AJAX22
12-29-2009, 10:50 AM
So..... how do we get those guys thrown in jail?

Its about time they stopped using state funds to pursue activist anti gun agendas.

Swatter911
12-29-2009, 12:29 PM
They didn't in this instance, just another example of "super-citizens" adding another law broken to their cop cards.

I apologize in advance if I missed it, maybe it was in the other thread, but how do you know they didn't run the serial numbers?

bodger
12-29-2009, 1:56 PM
But....It's for the children!!!....isn't it???

I'll bet you could run through the California state house naked as a jay, and as long as you were carrying an anti-gun sign of some sort, you'd get applause instead of arrested.

I just read through a bunch of CA statutes concerning serial numbers and returning stolen property.

Initial analysis: THE COPS WILLFULLY BROKE THE LAW!

Link here (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTQwZ3JmeHc4aGQ&hl=en)

Liberty1
12-29-2009, 2:51 PM
I just read through a bunch of CA statutes concerning serial numbers and returning stolen property.

Initial analysis: THE COPS WILLFULLY BROKE THE LAW!

Link here (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTQwZ3JmeHc4aGQ&hl=en)

I think you are perhaps jumping the gun (pun intended:p).

Those statutes seem to require them only to act IF they have a belief that the acquired firearm is stolen or used in a crime. They will certainly claim that they had no such information and no reason to believe that they weren't surrendered by the lawful owner.

Having said that I'll state Im very ignorant about these sections of law. My dept doesn't do buybacks but EVERY serialized item which we acquire from any source is entered into the date bases.

Funny how SDPD initially wanted to run your open carried firearms JUST in case it was stolen property ;).

AJAX22
12-29-2009, 2:59 PM
I think you are perhaps jumping the gun (pun intended:p).

Those statutes seem to require them only to act IF they have a belief that the acquired firearm is stolen or used in a crime. They will certainly claim that they had no such information and no reason to believe that they weren't surrendered by the lawful owner.

Having said that I'll state Im very ignorant about these sections of law. My dept doesn't do buybacks but EVERY serialized item which we acquire from any source is entered into the date bases.

Funny how SDPD initially wanted to run your open carried firearms JUST in case it was stolen property ;).



Any gun being turned in at a 'no questions asked' buyback has a better than average chance of being stolen property.

If they actually believe that they are being surrendered by a lawful owner then it completely defeats the nominal purpose of the buyback.

There is a rather serious level of intellectual dishonesty for someone to offer a cut rate price for 'no questions asked' firearms and then to claim that they had no reason to suspect that some of them might possibly be stolen.

'hotter than a two dollar pistol' is more than just a colloquialism

KylaGWolf
12-29-2009, 3:08 PM
Ajax in most of the gun buy backs,the cash/giftcards are donated.

Also I got to thinking that if we could show how much of a sham the buy back was the local paper might just might run with it, especially if it makes certain officials look foolish.

AJAX22
12-29-2009, 3:19 PM
Not all the funds come from 'donations', many departments use public funds to pay for these events.

and even if the 'donated' money did come from sources outside of the regular funding channels.... they could have easily spent it on an extra officer or two to put on patrol... which may have possibly done some good.

Liberty1
12-29-2009, 3:20 PM
Any gun being turned in at a 'no questions asked' buyback has a better than average chance of being stolen property.

If they actually believe that they are being surrendered by a lawful owner then it completely defeats the nominal purpose of the buyback.

There is a rather serious level of intellectual dishonesty for someone to offer a cut rate price for 'no questions asked' firearms and then to claim that they had no reason to suspect that some of them might possibly be stolen.

'hotter than a two dollar pistol' is more than just a colloquialism

I agree but look at who gets to make that determination. PnS "conclusion" is far from a slam dunk by my reading of the PC that will impact or stop such wasteful gun buy backs in the future. There might be other sections of Fed or State law that would do this however.

I'll add that I'm very impressed with his and the SDOC/SDCalguners boys and gals activity on this issue!!!

bodger
12-29-2009, 3:30 PM
Could be that it isn't actually against the law for the LEOs not to run these pieces to see if they're stolen.

But I claim it is grossly negligent at best nevertheless, and not good police policy.

If someone shows up at a buy-back with a modern firearm that appears to have current market value of $1000 or so let's say, would it not stand to reason for any cop that the damn thing might be stolen?

If said firearm was stolen from me, I would want a shot at getting it back before the cops and their "no questions asked" policy sends it to the smelter.

tankerman
12-29-2009, 3:53 PM
Does it have to be a "good gun" to be worth more than the cash you get for it? As others have mentioned, these have history, can be used for training youth, parts...

I guess I am just sentimental about keeping these "not good" guns around for the enjoyment of others.

:willy_nilly:If they're rusty, pitted junk, then they are not enjoyment, or safe.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 5:24 PM
If they're rusty, pitted junk, then they are not enjoyment, or safe.

I saw a lot of these guns. Few, if any, were rusty, pitted pieces of junk.

a.tinkerer
12-29-2009, 5:34 PM
The Hollis and Sheath could easily have been worth hundreds if not thousands of dollars - even if the stock was worn smooth and the metal finish had gone completely brown.

It was an antique from a known and respected Brit gunmaker.
I can imagine whoever turned it in might have even needed the money, they could have *even if it was rusted solid* gotten more than the buyback prize if they'd gone almost anywhere else.



Cheers
Tinker

Hunt
12-29-2009, 6:30 PM
The best part is that none of the guns taken in had their serial numbers run OR had a ballistics check done.

So it looks like SDPD broke quite a few laws in one day.

thank God we don't get all the government we pay for! Can you imagine the damage they would do if they were efficient with our taxes.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 6:32 PM
Here is a writeup from Chuck Michel on the subject. (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTQxZnBmdnRtY2M&hl=en) Cross posted from OCDO.

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 6:38 PM
I agree but look at who gets to make that determination. PnS "conclusion" is far from a slam dunk by my reading of the PC that will impact or stop such wasteful gun buy backs in the future. There might be other sections of Fed or State law that would do this however.

I'll add that I'm very impressed with his and the SDOC/SDCalguners boys and gals activity on this issue!!!

It was just my INITIAL conclusion :) v

five.five-six
12-29-2009, 6:47 PM
Weird I could not open the pdf.

consider yourself blessed

Merle
12-29-2009, 7:20 PM
That is a damn shame. They should have had a subsequent auction w/ the proceeds going to charity.

There are a few guns on that list which, starting the bid at $50, would have netted additional cash for a good cause.

squatting_caveboy
12-30-2009, 12:36 AM
A Thompson as well - a travesty

GuyW
12-30-2009, 8:13 AM
That is a damn shame. They should have had a subsequent auction w/ the proceeds going to charity.


EDITED for correctness:

CA state law (PC 12078, 12028, 12032) do not MANDATE destruction of the guns, but merely allow it...

.

bodger
12-30-2009, 8:20 AM
Except that state law seems to mandate destruction of the guns...

.


It mandates staying 1000' away from a school too, but these cops didn't care about it.

Typical. There's a mandate to destroy the guns, but nothing about checking them for stolen.

PowderBurn1
12-30-2009, 8:27 AM
I have an Idea, Can the CGF sponser a gun buy back program in exchange they person that donates their gun in working order will get a $50 gift card. CGF gets the guns and then auctions them off with all procedes going to the CGF, could this happen?

AJAX22
12-30-2009, 8:48 AM
I've been thinking of how best to spank these monkeys.

I believe a freedom of information act request could be filed to get a complete list of all guns recovered including make model and serial number.

We can have a friendly LEO run the serial numbers to make sure that none were stolen.... if any DO come back as stolen then we have some options...

We could pursue it as a civil tort (class action on behalf of ALL the people in the united states who have had firearms stolen which have not been recovered....) after all they have no way of proving that the guns that they have collected in 'buy back' programs and destroyed were not the property of private citizens.

Or possibly a title 1987 action for conversion under color of law.... they received property they had reason to believe was stolen and instead of returning it to its owner they melted it down for personal gain.

If none come back as stolen, we can take the information public....

i.e. a press release that states "the reason that 'no questions' are asked is simple... NONE of the so called illegal guns purchased at gun buybacks were stolen property." XXXX chief of XXXXX is wasting taxpayer dollars and departmental resources pursuing an activist agenda to pay good money for junk guns.

GrizzlyGuy
12-30-2009, 9:01 AM
FYI, another recent gun buyback (this one in Compton) is being discussed here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254202).

Swatter911
12-30-2009, 9:09 AM
I've been thinking of how best to spank these monkeys.


We can have a friendly LEO run the serial numbers to make sure that none were stolen.... if any DO come back as stolen then we have some options...




It would be a violation of law for the LEO to access CLETS/NCIC and release the info. Unauthorized computer access is also a Brady violation that would lead to loss of employment for the LEO.

GuyW
12-30-2009, 9:18 AM
I've been thinking of how best to spank these monkeys.

I believe a freedom of information act request could be filed to get a complete list of all guns recovered including make model and serial number.

We can have a friendly LEO run the serial numbers to make sure that none were stolen.... if any DO come back as stolen then we have some options...


Include in the FOIA request, all info and results of serial # searches for stolen guns or crime guns, etc.


FOIA requests need to be broad and creative...
.

AJAX22
12-30-2009, 9:41 AM
It would be a violation of law for the LEO to access CLETS/NCIC and release the info. Unauthorized computer access is also a Brady violation that would lead to loss of employment for the LEO.


which law would it violate?

and what constitutes 'unauthroized access'

If they are investigating a potential crime committed by a department does that not constitute a legitimate use?

Officers seem to run any and every serial number they can possibly come across... so I'm not sure how exactly asking one to run it is illegal (I'm not doubting that it is... i just would like to be better informed on the issue)

Thanks,

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 10:02 AM
which law would it violate?

and what constitutes 'unauthroized access'

If they are investigating a potential crime committed by a department does that not constitute a legitimate use?

Officers seem to run any and every serial number they can possibly come across... so I'm not sure how exactly asking one to run it is illegal (I'm not doubting that it is... i just would like to be better informed on the issue)

Thanks,

From personal experience, I can TESTIFY!

Swatter911
12-30-2009, 10:23 AM
which law would it violate? PC502. Access to CLETS info is regulated by DOJ.

and what constitutes 'unauthroized access' Access not related to a law enforcement purpose. It is also controlled by department policy.

If they are investigating a potential crime committed by a department does that not constitute a legitimate use? Maybe, but dissemination to other parties is the issue here.

Officers seem to run any and every serial number they can possibly come across... so I'm not sure how exactly asking one to run it is illegal (I'm not doubting that it is... i just would like to be better informed on the issue)

Thanks,

We run things all the time trying to recover stolen property, but we wouldn't release info on victims or their property to third parties. Hope that helps.

Merle
12-30-2009, 10:29 AM
I wonder... would it be possible to turn a profit from these endeavors? The rules seem rather "loose" as to what they'll accept.

A $28 starter pistol could be $22 of profit.

http://www.pentagondefense.com/8050171.html

TaxAnnihilator
12-30-2009, 1:02 PM
Here is a writeup from Chuck Michel on the subject. (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTQxZnBmdnRtY2M&hl=en) Cross posted from OCDO.

Thanks for posting this. Interesting read, too bad the case law in the area appears weak.

I like the policy arguments, especially since this post has included the discussion of turning a profit already!

Anti's really do work without logic sometimes, they want to stop gun crimes but then destroy potential evidence of them!? It saddens me that Americans are so easily fooled into believing/tolerating (whatever you call it) that these events are really helping. Ugh.

Afterburnt
12-30-2009, 3:30 PM
Thanks for posting this. Interesting read, too bad the case law in the area appears weak.

I like the policy arguments, especially since this post has included the discussion of turning a profit already!

Anti's really do work without logic sometimes, they want to stop gun crimes but then destroy potential evidence of them!? It saddens me that Americans are so easily fooled into believing/tolerating (whatever you call it) that these events are really helping. Ugh.

where did you get the impression that they have any interest in stopping crime?

sbrady@Michel&Associates
12-30-2009, 3:47 PM
Since there is so much discussion surrounding gun buybacks on the forum lately, I thought I would remind you all that we drafted a memorandum re the legality of gun-buybacks that we send to agencies/cities considering holding one, in order to assure they are aware of their obligations. I have made the memo a public document on www.calgunlaws.com, at:

http://www.calgunlaws.com/images/stories/Docs/gun%20buyback%20programs.pdf

You do not have to register to view it; however, if you want to receive alerts re current events in the RKBA struggle, as well as similar informative memoranda that we put out periodically, we encourage you to register, as not all content on the site is public.

Additionally, we always send PRARs to agencies/cities that have held gun buybacks, in order to assure that they were in compliance with the obligations outlined in our memo. We are currently in the process of compiling a report on our findings, which will be made available on www.calgunlaws.com in the near future.

GuyW
12-30-2009, 6:06 PM
^^^^^He's the expert^^^^

Revised my post #86:

CA state law (PC 12078, 12028, 12032) does not MANDATE destruction of the guns, but merely allows it...
.

TaxAnnihilator
12-31-2009, 7:18 AM
where did you get the impression that they have any interest in stopping crime?

:confused: Thought they should have some reason other than jumpin into our lives!