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Chris M
12-28-2009, 11:10 AM
I found these gems in the Milpitas Municipal Code:

V-14-4.01 - Firearm (http://library.municode.com/HTML/16491/level3/TV_C14_s4.html)

The term "firearm" as used herein includes, but is not limited to, any rifle, pistol, revolver, shotgun, air gun, BB gun or other type of gun from which a shell, shot, pellet, cartridge, bullet or other projectile is propelled by any force including, but not limited to, air, gas, explosion, spring, elasticity or leverage.


If I understand that correctly, it's illegal to use this to kill flies.
http://www.superdairyboy.com/pictures/schylling/fly_gun_200.jpg


and...
(this one applies to Air Guns only)
V-10-4.02 - Authorized Possession at Other Times (http://library.municode.com/HTML/16491/level3/TV_C10_s4.html)

To the possession of an air gun by any person conveying it to or from his domicile and (a) the place where said air gun was purchased or was or will be repaired and while at said place of repair, (b) outside the City limits, and (c) at a target range approved by the Chief of Police.

Which makes it illegal to bring an air gun to a friends house that also lives within Milpitas.

loather
12-28-2009, 11:25 AM
Suffice to say I'm glad I don't live there. Apparently slingshots, water balloon launchers, and, yes, the aforementioned flyswatter, are all illegal.

When incorporation hits, hopefully we can have many of these moronic laws overturned.

1923mack
12-28-2009, 11:30 AM
That is just a definition for the City. Why are we jumping to the conclusion tht anything is illegal?

Chris M
12-28-2009, 11:34 AM
That is just a definition for the City. Why are we jumping to the conclusion tht anything is illegal?

http://library.municode.com/HTML/16491/level2/TV_C14.html

Section 1 - Discharging or Shooting Firearm, Cross-Bow, Bow and Arrow or Slingshot

It shall be unlawful to discharge or shoot a firearm (definition (http://library.municode.com/HTML/16491/level3/TV_C14_s4.html)), cross-bow, bow and arrow or slingshot within the limits of the City of Milpitas except as hereafter provided.

(Ord. 155 (part), 5/5/70)

Exceptions:
http://library.municode.com/HTML/16491/level3/TV_C14_s2.html

All of these fall under the definition of "Firearm" according to the city of Milpitas:
- Flyswatter gun
- Waterballoon launcher
- slingshot
- Rubber-band gun
- Airsoft gun
- Marshmallow launcher

loather
12-28-2009, 11:36 AM
If you can't use or transport it within city limits except at a "target range approved by the chief of police," then there's a problem. Just as he said, you can't give your BB gun to a friend and subsequently drive from your house to his with it. Or use your slingshot in your backyard. Or lob water balloons at each other during an event in the park (if we want to be pedantic about it, even moving the water balloon launcher from your house to the park is illegal unless the park is COP-approved (doubtful)).

munkeeboi
12-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Wonder if nerf guns fall into this category

Chris M
12-28-2009, 11:41 AM
If you can't use or transport it within city limits except at a "target range approved by the chief of police," then there's a problem. Just as he said, you can't give your BB gun to a friend and subsequently drive from your house to his with it. Or use your slingshot in your backyard. Or lob water balloons at each other during an event in the park (if we want to be pedantic about it, even moving the water balloon launcher from your house to the park is illegal unless the park is COP-approved (doubtful)).

Sorry if there was any confusion. The second M.C. listed in the OP is specific to Air Guns - not all "Firearms". I've updated the OP.

Rusty_Rebar
12-28-2009, 11:47 AM
Lets try a citizens arrest on someone in the park shooting their Nerf gun.

This law is silly.

I just sent the following to the Milpitas city attorney:

Dear Mr. Ogaz:

I bought this http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3729378 for my child, but it appears that using this toy would be illegal in the city limits. I don't understand why you would allow this to be sold at the toys r us in your city if my child could get arrested for using it. Can you please explain this to me?

Thank you,
A concerned citizen

Chris M
12-28-2009, 11:47 AM
Wonder if nerf guns fall into this category

If it shoots a projectile by any force including, but not limited to, air, gas, explosion, spring, elasticity or leverage - it's a "Firearm".

I truly hope I am mistaken, and simply misunderstand this municipal code.

artherd
12-28-2009, 11:51 AM
this is why we have preemption...

artherd
12-28-2009, 11:52 AM
if I had more spare time I would start arresting relatives of police officers using fly swatters. It's the law.

sv_1
12-28-2009, 12:29 PM
I wonder how old this is. In the 80's we all ran around the neighborhood with bb guns, exploding targets, bazookas that launched model rockets, slingshots, etc. Hopefully our old neighbors didn't become councelmen and make these laws because of us!

Chris M
12-28-2009, 12:32 PM
This law is silly.

I just sent the following to the Milpitas city attorney:

That's awesome. I'd love to hear his response.

Rusty_Rebar
12-28-2009, 12:34 PM
I doubt he will respond, but if he does, I will post it here.

Chris M
12-28-2009, 12:37 PM
I wonder how old this is. In the 80's we all ran around the neighborhood with bb guns, exploding targets, bazookas that launched model rockets, slingshots, etc. Hopefully our old neighbors didn't become councelmen and make these laws because of us!

It looks like all of the firearms codes are dated 5/5/70. Air gun codes are dated 12/12/60.

Decoligny
12-28-2009, 12:37 PM
I found these gems in the Milpitas Municipal Code:



If I understand that correctly, it's illegal to use this to kill flies.
http://www.superdairyboy.com/pictures/schylling/fly_gun_200.jpg


and...
(this one applies to Air Guns only)


Which makes it illegal to bring an air gun to a friends house that also lives within Milpitas.

And this young girl is about to discharge a firearm.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_49_rBkfoHZ8/SgOFXU9_4MI/AAAAAAAABJ0/BEHknm0IBFk/s400/STRAW.jpg

adamsreeftank
12-28-2009, 1:02 PM
I wonder if there are any batting cages or tennis courts with ball launchers in the city.

Mikeb
12-28-2009, 1:10 PM
Come'on guys you have no idea how hard it is to write new laws with all the old laws on the books. It takes a huge amount of imagination to make more things illegal, what with all the things that are illegal already. And as we have heard from our representatives, We write new laws 'cause that's our job. And it's easier than taking responsibility for the budget.
take care
Mike

Sgt Raven
12-28-2009, 1:12 PM
You think that's stupid check this one out and think about baseball parks and golf courses.
Santa Clara City Municipal Code http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/san...5.120#9.05.120 (http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/santaclara/frameless/code.pl?cite=9.05.120#9.05.120) :


9.05.120 Weapons – Discharging of firearms restricted. It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge, fire, or project (or cause to be projected, fired, or discharged), within the corporate limits of the City, a projectile weapon. For purposes of this section, projectile weapons shall be referred to as "firearms." Firearms shall include, but not be limited to, any gun, rifle, pistol, firearm, cannon (or explosive device of similar nature), air rifle, air pistol, air gun, BB gun, gas operated gun, pellet gun, flare gun, dart gun, paint gun, bow, crossbow, slungshot, slingshot, wrist rocket, or any instrument of any kind, character, or description which expels, launches, or propels a projectile of any kind with sufficient force to cause damage to property, or injury or death to a person or persons.


The foregoing provisions as to the use of firearms shall not apply to: (a) peace officers or soldiers in the discharge of their official duties and while in the exercise of reasonable care; (b) a person using firearms in necessary self defense; (c) a person, as defined by SCCC 1.05.020, conducting a fixed place of business in the City and which has obtained City approval for the particular land use and which has obtained all other City Code, regulation, and policy approvals; (d) schools conducting supervised classes, such as archery classes; (e) such other activities which first secure permission from the City Council to conduct the activity. (Ord. 217; Ord. 1224 § 1, 1-27-70; Ord. 1651 § 1, 11-16-93. Formerly § 18-22).

Turo
12-28-2009, 1:31 PM
I recently saw these same codes in my hometown and here in SLO. Pretty much every city I've been to bans the use of slingshots, nerf guns, straw wrapper blow darts, etc.

I'm wondering though, is it illegal in those counties to take your foot off the gas in your car? Because by the wording in this one:
or any instrument of any kind, character, or description which expels, launches, or propels a projectile of any kind with sufficient force to cause damage to property, or injury or death to a person or persons.
It seems a vehicle's engine definitely propels the vehicle with more than enough force to cause damage. :rolleyes:

I hate these stupid laws. It's illegal to shoot airsoft in my house didn't you know? Man, looks like I've broken that law about a thousand times. Go ahead, arrest me for that. I dare ya.

Rusty_Rebar
12-28-2009, 2:10 PM
Response letter from City attorney:


Hello Mr. *****,
The "nerf" toy guns shown in the attached link do not come within the
prohibitions contained in City Ordinances. Eye protection, however, is
recommended.


And my reply was:

But the ordinance clearly states:

"V-14-4.01 - Firearm

The term "firearm" as used herein includes, but is not limited to, any rifle, pistol, revolver, shotgun, air gun, BB gun or other type of gun from which a shell, shot, pellet, cartridge, bullet or other projectile is propelled by any force including, but not limited to, air, gas, explosion, spring, elasticity or leverage."

and then Chapter 14 Section 1 says:

"It shall be unlawful to discharge or shoot a firearm, cross-bow, bow and arrow or slingshot within the limits of the City of Milpitas except as hereafter provided."

The Nerf gun I linked propels a projectile (the Nerf dart) using air pressure. So that clearly falls within the definition of a firearm according to the city code.

It would seem this ordinance would also make it illegal to use:
A flyswatter gun (http://www.superdairyboy.com/pictures/schylling/fly_gun_200.jpg)
A Water Balloon launcher
A Sling shot
A rubber band gun
An "Airsoft" gun
A marshmallow launcher

These all items are clearly classified as firearms in the city code.

Chris M
12-28-2009, 2:25 PM
I'm surprised you got a response so quickly, and I'm glad you replied quoting the specific code.

Hopefully these people will start to realize how ridiculous these laws are.

xxdabroxx
12-28-2009, 2:43 PM
I'm surprised you got a response so quickly, and I'm glad you replied quoting the specific code.

Hopefully these people will start to realize how ridiculous these laws are.

ROFLMAO AHAHHAHAHAH

Rusty_Rebar
12-28-2009, 4:14 PM
And his responce.

You are correct, but Section V-10-2.01 excludes toys incapable of harming persons or property from the definition of Air Gun.


V-10-2.01 - Air Gun

The term "air gun" as used in this Chapter includes, but is not limited to, any gas operated or air operated gun or rifle, BB or pellet gun or rifle, spring gun or rifle, or any other weapon of the same class. It shall not include toys incapable of harming either persons or property, such as water pistols, pop guns or cap guns which do not expel a pellet or a missile.

Then if you look at V-10-3

Except as hereinafter provided, it shall be unlawful for any person to possess or use any air gun within the City Limits of the City of Milpitas.

I am not going to get into it with the city attorney, but sounds like this does not apply to what I mentioned, as the nerf gun does in fact expel a missile.

So there we have it.

It should not matter what V-10 says at all, even if you are not in violation of that ordinance, you would still be in violation of V-14 (the firearms ordinance).

Gio
12-28-2009, 4:35 PM
That's why I love Unincorporated Alameda County, we have a Trap Setup with Hay Bails setup in the backyard to shoot our pellet guns :D We have 1/3 of an acre in the backyard ;)

-Gio

pat038536
12-28-2009, 4:35 PM
Here is one for City of Sacramento

9.32.110 Explosives generally—Storage for sale in the city.
There shall not be kept within the city more than fifty (50) pounds of powder, or other explosive substance, by any one person, and every person keeping such articles shall keep all they have in one metal case, with metal cover and handles, plainly marked “POWDER,” which shall be kept near the front door, and shall display conspicuously upon the front of the building a sign plainly marked “GUNPOWDER KEPT HERE.” (Prior code § 26.01.018)

I'm yet to see any such sign posted at any gun store I've been to that sold powder.

HUTCH 7.62
12-28-2009, 4:39 PM
Palo Alto has some dumb MC's too.

Crazed_SS
12-28-2009, 4:45 PM
San Diego MC with its own definition of AWs..
http://docs.sandiego.gov/municode/MuniCodeChapter05/Ch05Art03Division00.pdf

§53.31 Assault Weapons, Nuisance, Temporary Custody
(a) The term “assault weapon,” as used in this Section, shall include:
(1) Any semiautomatic action, center fire rifle or carbine which accepts a
detachable magazine with a capacity of twenty (20) rounds or more,
with a barrel of more than sixteen (16) inches, including but not
limited to the following firearms or their copies: AR 15 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Uzi semiautomatic assault rifles or carbines, Ingram
Mac–10 semiautomatic assault carbines, Ingram Mac–11
semiautomatic assault carbines, Heckler and Koch 93 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Heckler and Koch 91 semiautomatic assault rifles, AK–
47 semiautomatic assault rifles, AKM–47 semiautomatic assault rifles,
all Avtomat Kalashnikov weapons, M1–A semiautomatic assault
rifles, M–14 semiautomatic assault rifles, Thompson semiautomatic
carbines and any other semiautomatic carbines manufactured by Auto
Ordnance

ALSystems
12-31-2009, 3:33 PM
I found these gems in the Milpitas Municipal Code:

V-14-4.01 - Firearm

The term "firearm" as used herein includes, but is not limited to, any rifle, pistol, revolver, shotgun, air gun, BB gun or other type of gun from which a shell, shot, pellet, cartridge, bullet or other projectile is propelled by any force including, but not limited to, air, gas, explosion, spring, elasticity or leverage.

If I understand that correctly, it's illegal to use this to kill flies.
http://www.superdairyboy.com/pictures/schylling/fly_gun_200.jpg


I guess the schools can have the police arrest kids for launching spit wads in class and have them taken away in handcuffs. :mad: Next go after those dangerous kids launching water balloons from a catapult at a street carnival. :eek: Toy catapults and trebuchets seem to be included as well. And don't forget kids launching paper airplanes or the rubberband powered airplanes.

With such an overly broad definition, I seriously wonder if the people who wrote this law would know a real weapon if they saw one. Milpitas Municipal Codes defines all of these toys as firearms. Idiots! :banghead:

ALSystems
12-31-2009, 3:42 PM
San Diego MC with its own definition of AWs..

§53.31 Assault Weapons, Nuisance, Temporary Custody
(a) The term “assault weapon,” as used in this Section, shall include:
(1) Any semiautomatic action, center fire rifle or carbine which accepts a
detachable magazine with a capacity of twenty (20) rounds or more,
with a barrel of more than sixteen (16) inches, including but not
limited to the following firearms or their copies: AR 15 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Uzi semiautomatic assault rifles or carbines, Ingram
Mac–10 semiautomatic assault carbines, Ingram Mac–11
semiautomatic assault carbines, Heckler and Koch 93 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Heckler and Koch 91 semiautomatic assault rifles, AK–
47 semiautomatic assault rifles, AKM–47 semiautomatic assault rifles,
all Avtomat Kalashnikov weapons, M1–A semiautomatic assault
rifles, M–14 semiautomatic assault rifles, Thompson semiautomatic
carbines and any other semiautomatic carbines manufactured by Auto
Ordnance
http://docs.sandiego.gov/municode/MuniCodeChapter05/Ch05Art03Division00.pdf
If I'm reading this right, San Diego has defined any semiautomatic center fire rifle or carbine with detachable magazines as an assault weapon. I guess that includes mini 14s and Saigas, and just about anything else.

Chris M
12-31-2009, 4:42 PM
If I'm reading this right, San Diego has defined any semiautomatic center fire rifle or carbine with detachable magazines as an assault weapon. I guess that includes mini 14s and Saigas, and just about anything else.

Only if you're using 20+ round mags.

§53.31 Assault Weapons, Nuisance, Temporary Custody
(a) The term “assault weapon,” as used in this Section, shall include:
(1) Any semiautomatic action, center fire rifle or carbine which accepts a
detachable magazine with a capacity of twenty (20) rounds or more,
with a barrel of more than sixteen (16) inches, including but not
limited to the following firearms or their copies: AR 15 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Uzi semiautomatic assault rifles or carbines, Ingram
Mac–10 semiautomatic assault carbines, Ingram Mac–11
semiautomatic assault carbines, Heckler and Koch 93 semiautomatic
assault rifles, Heckler and Koch 91 semiautomatic assault rifles, AK–
47 semiautomatic assault rifles, AKM–47 semiautomatic assault rifles,
all Avtomat Kalashnikov weapons, M1–A semiautomatic assault
rifles, M–14 semiautomatic assault rifles, Thompson semiautomatic
carbines and any other semiautomatic carbines manufactured by Auto
Ordnance

Turbinator
12-31-2009, 5:36 PM
I am not going to get into it with the city attorney, but sounds like this does not apply to what I mentioned, as the nerf gun does in fact expel a missile.

So there we have it.

It should not matter what V-10 says at all, even if you are not in violation of that ordinance, you would still be in violation of V-14 (the firearms ordinance).

The good news is that the city DA doesn't seem interested in trying to prosecute for any Nerf gun violations. The problem, though, is that the letter of the law actually does make the Nerf guns illegal. Since there is nothing in writing that could be used in a Nerf user's defense, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the DA's reply that the Nerf gun is not illegal.

Turby

POLICESTATE
12-31-2009, 5:37 PM
Milpitas... yeah at least living in Sunnyvale is better than living in Milpitas. I lived there some years ago and it's an armpit with lousy cops and mostly lousy residents. Crappy schools, lousy choices for businesses/restaurants... now that I don't live there I never go there except to get from 880 to 680 (which I usually do in Fremont, ewww, another town I don't like, but at least it's not Milpitas)

I don't understand what is up with the police state mentality in places like Milpitas and Fremont.


I found these gems in the Milpitas Municipal Code:



If I understand that correctly, it's illegal to use this to kill flies.
http://www.superdairyboy.com/pictures/schylling/fly_gun_200.jpg


and...
(this one applies to Air Guns only)


Which makes it illegal to bring an air gun to a friends house that also lives within Milpitas.

johnny_22
01-01-2010, 7:53 AM
The definition seems to cover Tasers as well. With no exception for the police, are they all criminals?

ALSystems
01-01-2010, 7:57 AM
Only if you're using 20+ round mags.
You're correct.

San Diego has defined any semiautomatic center fire rifle or carbine with 20+ round detachable magazines as an assault weapon. That includes featureless guns such as mini 14s and Saigas, and just about anything else. The whole point of a featureless gun is to use the 20 or 30 round magazines you've possessed before the California 10+ magazine ban.

I guess in San Diego, they convert 30 round magazines into 19/30 magazines. :wacko:

Just another example of why the rest of country is tired of trying to figure out California's crazy gun laws. :ack2:

ALSystems
01-01-2010, 8:10 AM
The definition seems to cover Tasers as well. With no exception for the police, are they all criminals?
Probably only if they use it. :58:
Lots of luck trying to sue the police for violating this city ordinance for using a taser on you. :eek: Sounds like selective enforcement to me.

cdtx2001
01-01-2010, 9:34 AM
Here's what the city of Vacaville sez...

9.40.010 Discharge prohibited.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person shall fire or discharge, or cause to be fired or discharged within this city, nor shall any parent, guardian or person having the care, custody or control of any minor permit such minor to have in his possession within this city, or to fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, fireworks, gun, pistol, revolver, anvil, firecracker or explosive of similar nature, rifle, air rifle, airgun, BB gun or pellet gun, crossbow, bow and arrow, or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as “firearms.” (Ord. 900 (part), 1976: prior code §14.22).

Oh the humanity.

Time to arrest all those kids that make the rubber band and paper thingy and shoot it at each other in grade school. Wouldn't that be fun to see on the 6 o'clock news, a big line of 9 year olds, shackled and chained, and lead out in a big line from the elementary school.

Also, according to the letter of the law, Nerf guns are a no-no.

monaghan
01-05-2010, 3:25 PM
I am confused.

My city's Muni Codes reads 'No person shall ...on public or private property carry or use any air gun...'

So, one is allowed to Carry a loaded hand gun on ones person, on one's property, per CA law, but can't carry an airgun on their property? WTF?

Mitch
01-05-2010, 3:59 PM
And this young girl is about to discharge a firearm.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_49_rBkfoHZ8/SgOFXU9_4MI/AAAAAAAABJ0/BEHknm0IBFk/s400/STRAW.jpg

OMG, what the hell is the photographer doing downrange of her?

twotap
01-05-2010, 5:49 PM
How bout a super soaker?? I'm I going to jail??

Hunt
01-05-2010, 6:14 PM
Obey

Chris M
01-05-2010, 6:19 PM
I don't think water can be considered a projectile.

twotap
01-05-2010, 8:08 PM
Ever see a pressure washer

diablopilot
01-05-2010, 10:05 PM
Frustrations.....


27.03.080
Possession of firearms is prohibited on any city open space area, except for law enforcement personnel. (Ord. No. 1877, § 1 (part).)



26.02.02
"Deadly or dangerous weapon" includes, but is not limited to: Any dirk or dagger, any knife with a blade three inches or more in length, any snap-blade or spring-blade knife, regardless of the length of the blade, any icepick or similar sharp stabbing tool, any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle, any dangerous or deadly weapon within the meaning of any law of this state restricting the use thereof, any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm, any bow and arrow in company with a metal-tipped arrow, and any firearm other than one carried pursuant to a valid permit, issued by a duly authorized governmental authority or any ordinary rifle or shotgun lawfully carried for purposes of hunting or other lawful sport. (Code 1964, § 7-3.101; Ord. No. 1669, § 1.)


27.01.01
For the purposes of this chapter, the following terms, phrases, words, and their derivations shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them by this section:
(c)"Open space area" means a natural, open space area owned, used or maintained by the city, and devoted to habitat, agriculture or passive recreation and not designated a park by the city.

(d)"Park" means a park, reservation, playground, golf course, swimming pool, recreation center, greenbelts, greenways, or any other area in the city, owned or used by the city and devoted to active or passive recreation.

tiki
01-06-2010, 8:06 AM
Frustrations.....


Preemptions...