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View Full Version : Does CA honor NV CCW's??


fullrearview
12-28-2009, 1:14 AM
and If not fully, isn't there a specific buffer zone as to where its ok within 5-10 miles?

bigcalidave
12-28-2009, 1:23 AM
No. Not at all, no buffer zone. Geez... Buffer zones in CA ?

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 1:25 AM
I was thinking there was a mutual zone where it was acceptable....Thanks

Cpl. Haas
12-28-2009, 1:27 AM
Negative...

bigcalidave
12-28-2009, 1:32 AM
Most of the border counties will issue a CCW to their residents though. Get dual residency?

Cokebottle
12-28-2009, 1:36 AM
Negative...
Ditto.
While 15 of the 32 or so shall-issue states accept a California permit, California accepts no other states' CCW.

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 1:40 AM
Im LEO so im good to go...partner had a stop and was unsure if the guy was legal in his actions. He had a loaded handgun in a duffle bag, tucked behind the rear set of his four door truck....well out of reach. Dude had a nv ccw, and not even a speeding ticket on his record.

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 2:01 AM
by the way, I know it is a 12025(a)(1), but my partner thought there was a "buffer" zone, and since I have never heard of one, I thought I would ask.

Cokebottle
12-28-2009, 2:06 AM
Ya, and Nevada doesn't honor CA's permit, so either state's permit on the wrong side of the border would be a violation.... unless it's a CA resident with a non-resident Nevada permit and a CA permit, then he's obviously G2G on either side.

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 2:10 AM
OK...need some clarification....what I have listed above states his actions were illegal, but I figured I woudl read the 12000 section right quick...

Out lined in bold, were his actions OK after all?

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

I know he was not in a prohibited area and It's definately unincorperated.

Cokebottle
12-28-2009, 2:19 AM
OK...need some clarification....what I have listed above states his actions were illegal, but I figured I woudl read the 12000 section right quick...

Out lined in bold, were his actions OK after all?

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

I know he was not in a prohibited area and It's definately unincorperated.
Which county? I've been trying to find the exact number, but LOC is permitted in unincorporated areas (not otherwise restricted from weapons discharge) of counties with populations of, IIRC, under 250,000.
I was under the impression that unlocked CCW was only permitted while in the process of fishing or hunting.
BTW: A "prohibited area" would be within 150ft of a highway or building.

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 2:36 AM
Which county? I've been trying to find the exact number, but LOC is permitted in unincorporated areas (not otherwise restricted from weapons discharge) of counties with populations of, IIRC, under 250,000.
I was under the impression that unlocked CCW was only permitted while in the process of fishing or hunting.
BTW: A "prohibited area" would be within 150ft of a highway or building.

Gotcha....Alpine county.....Population.....1.7/ square mile!

Man....I thought I knew the 12000 section well....I am glad a few people are working on hand outs for this section.... New question....

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.

In the duffle bag was all of the dudes range stuff, and he was going to and from.

yellowfin
12-28-2009, 5:54 AM
It might make for interesting litigation following Sykes.

NiteQwill
12-28-2009, 6:46 AM
Gotcha....Alpine county.....Population.....1.7/ square mile!

Man....I thought I knew the 12000 section well....I am glad a few people are working on hand outs for this section.... New question....

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.

In the duffle bag was all of the dudes range stuff, and he was going to and from.

Then I would say that he was legal.

paul0660
12-28-2009, 7:15 AM
12026.2 only counts if you keep reading:

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.


12026.2 describes the several instances in which a person can carry a locked unloaded handgun in a vehicle.

12026.1 applies to citizens of the USand says that we can carry a locked unloaded handgun in a vehicle for any lawful purpose, ie, we don't need a reason.

There isn't a buffer zone, and if you don't have a a ccw, you can't have a loaded gun in a car, unless you are in immediate fear of your life.

Meplat
12-28-2009, 7:34 AM
if you don't have a a ccw, you can't have a loaded gun in a car, unless you are in immediate fear of your life.

I believe LOC is lawful anywhere that discharge of a firearm is lawful.

paul0660
12-28-2009, 7:40 AM
I believe LOC is lawful anywhere that discharge of a firearm is lawful.

Which does not include roads, so if you are "off road", I guess it is ok.

B Strong
12-28-2009, 7:46 AM
and If not fully, isn't there a specific buffer zone as to where its ok within 5-10 miles?

California doesn't honor any out-of-state carry permits, anywhere.

There are officers that are so mis-informed that they aren't too sure about California carry permits held by non-LEO's.

Liberty1
12-28-2009, 12:24 PM
The roadway discharge prohibition (PC 374c ?) doesn't trigger 12031 loaded prohibition. LOC on a roadway in a vehicle which is not in an otherwise prohibited area (incorporated city or area prohibited by county ordinance) is GTG.

See People v Knight (loaded firearms on a Kern Co. roadway was legal and the narcotics evidence was therefore suppressed as "poisonous fruit"). There is also an AG memo on this topic I'm trying to get a copy of...

The individual stopped by the OP was in violation of 12025 (to and from the range notwithstanding) because the concealed firearm was loaded (he doesn't qualify for the 12027 PC exemption).

But considering the NV CCW, lack of criminal intention, clean DL record, the other target shooting paraphernalia and my bias toward the 2nd A, I would not arrest or file by complaint and just advise the fellow American so he would not become victim to a future stop for a "stat" over a stupid law.t

What your partner might be confusing this situation with is the 50 mile zone where CA and neighboring states peace officer can, in "hot/fresh" pursuit, follow fleeing suspects across state lines.

fullrearview
12-28-2009, 12:53 PM
The roadway discharge prohibition (PC 374c ?) doesn't trigger 12031 loaded prohibition. LOC on a roadway in a vehicle which is not in an otherwise prohibited area (incorporated city or area prohibited by county ordinance) is GTG.

See People v Knight (loaded firearms on a Kern Co. roadway was legal and the narcotics evidence was therefore suppressed as "poisonous fruit"). There is also an AG memo on this topic I'm trying to get a copy of...

The individual stopped was in violation of 12025 (to and from the range notwithstanding) because the concealed firearm was loaded (he doesn't qualify for the 12027 PC exemption).

But considering the NV CCW, lack of criminal intention, clean DL record, the other target shooting paraphernalia and my bias toward the 2nd A, I would not arrest or file by complaint and just advise the fellow American so he would not become victim to a future stop for a "stat" over a stupid law.t

What your partner might be confusing this situation with is the 50 mile zone where CA and neighboring states peace officer can, in "hot/fresh" pursuit, follow fleeing suspects across state lines.

See, we talked about that, since we have had a few pursuits go into NV, and if El Dorado, S.lake, or CHP doesn't have a swat/cert team readily available and one is needed, we can use Douglas County.

He just thought there was a buffer zone allowing it.

BigDogatPlay
12-28-2009, 1:35 PM
I admire the discretion shown by the LEOs in the OP's post. As noted above there is no buffer zone and no reciprocity. Once on the California side of the invisible line, the NV permit is null and void.

To recap... pistol or revolver capable of being concealed, loaded, and concealed in a duffle within a vehicle on a highway (as defined in the VC), then the subject was GTG to county for 12031.

California LEO pursues into Nevada (or vice versa) then uniform act on fresh pursuit applies, pursuing LEO has full authority and the guys on the other side of the line may act in mutual aid.

gunsmith
12-28-2009, 7:50 PM
well, when I was an armed guard driving a Loomis truck based in Reno and servicing Lake Tahoe I was concerned about this, I was told by my supervisor that armed guards do have reciprocity while on duty.
Loomis and Brinks and other companies travel to San Francisco and all parts of northern CA with armed guards based and licensed in NV.

Liberty1
12-28-2009, 8:47 PM
He just thought there was a buffer zone allowing it.

There is, it's called officer descretion! ;) :D

joelogic
12-28-2009, 8:54 PM
I know this is off topic but I did not see it in the thread. What called for the search in the first place?

bigcalidave
12-28-2009, 10:57 PM
I know this is off topic but I did not see it in the thread. What called for the search in the first place?

I agree. If he told you he had a concealed loaded handgun, he deserves the punishment. (Not really, but people need to learn to shut up)

whprsnpr
12-29-2009, 6:18 AM
After reading the post you have provided the actual, written law, it would appear, at least the way I have read it, yes in fact he was in violation.

My opinion.

FastFinger
12-29-2009, 6:31 AM
and If not fully, isn't there a specific buffer zone as to where its ok within 5-10 miles?


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5584/bufferu.jpg

cmth
12-29-2009, 7:47 AM
The only law he might be guilty of was unlawful concealment (misdemeanor) if the duffel bag was not locked. The gun being loaded does not matter since he was in an unincorporated area where the discharge of a firearm was not prohibited. People v. Knight clarified what the line "any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory" in 12031 means. It was written poorly, and to understand it properly it should be read as "any public place in a prohibited area or any public street in a prohibited area". Knight found that unless the loaded firearm was in a prohibited area (no discharge) it did not matter if it was on a public street. There is also the AG opinion which states that PC 374c does not trigger the prohibited area in 12031. It's all very convoluted and confusing.

I think officer discretion is a good thing in a case like this. The guy probably wrongly assumed that his NV CCW was good in CA. He may have been told by his instructor that it was (happens frequently). If the guy had no criminal record, and didn't harm anyone, and was clearly not intending to harm anyone, then give him a stern warning and bid him good travels. I don't see any need to prosecute someone who is not showing malicious intent.

jehall01
12-29-2009, 3:45 PM
AMEN!!!!

Merle
12-29-2009, 8:13 PM
The buffer zone should be 200 miles. 250 if you want to include SF.

Seesm
12-29-2009, 8:40 PM
Negative ghost rider... The pattern is full.

yellowfin
12-29-2009, 8:43 PM
I wonder which state will put up the uglier fight against non resident carry: CA, MD, NY, or NJ. I can't wait to hear the reactions when they lose.

Eat Dirt
12-29-2009, 8:50 PM
Which does not include roads, so if you are "off road", I guess it is ok.


Another can of worms has been opened ...............

Any Takers ?????????? Somebody !!!!!!!!!!