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doublegobble
12-27-2009, 11:37 PM
My job just transferred me here from Pennsylvania and, needless to say, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of regulations in effect and impending. I bought a lot of ammunition online in my former state - to my knowledge, that is not going to be allowed after January 1st in CA - is that correct?

Also, anything else I should know before I decide to request a job transfer back to PA? :p

wildhawker
12-27-2009, 11:39 PM
No need to worry about mail order ammo unless you live in a city which prohibits such transactions; AB962 does not go into effect until Feb 2011, and CGF will be killing the law in court very soon.

-Brandon

doublegobble
12-27-2009, 11:43 PM
(insert sigh of relief here)

Thanks. Appreciate the facts.

Does anyone know if Burbank is on the list of cities prohibiting online ammunition transactions?

wildhawker
12-27-2009, 11:46 PM
To my knowledge Burbank addresses are free from restrictions on mail order ammo.

berto
12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
Welcome to CA. CGN is a great resource and I'm happy you found it. Stick around.

Noraku81
12-28-2009, 12:17 AM
Welcome to CA. Im sure you've already noticed your wallet getting lighter from all the taxes! The 2A and politics forum on here is a great resource for CA gun laws.

kf6tac
12-28-2009, 1:05 AM
Welcome to CA and Calguns. My condolences on the transfer.

Cokebottle
12-28-2009, 1:58 AM
Burbank may be free of restrictions, but be aware that many online dealers will refuse to sell to anyone in Los Angeles county (the prohibition is the city), and some dealers won't even ship to Orange County... no prohibition in OC, but there is an OC in either New York or New Jersey that prohibits online sales.

Make friends with someone in Riverside or San Bernardino county and ship to their address ;)

Carlosa
12-28-2009, 2:01 AM
Never had any problems getting ammo sent to Burbank.
I didn't reAlize such provision existed until I spent some time in frisco.
Burbank is good to go :D

doublegobble
12-28-2009, 8:38 AM
Thanks for all of the advice - I'll be on here a lot from the looks of it!

bodger
12-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Burbank may be free of restrictions, but be aware that many online dealers will refuse to sell to anyone in Los Angeles county (the prohibition is the city), and some dealers won't even ship to Orange County... no prohibition in OC, but there is an OC in either New York or New Jersey that prohibits online sales.

Make friends with someone in Riverside or San Bernardino county and ship to their address ;)



Here is the Los Angeles City Ordinance # 180447:

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2008/08-1403_ord_180447.pdf

There seems to be some debate as to whether this ordinance applies to vendors that are not within the city. The issue is where the sale is actually taking place, with the buyer within Los Angeles city limits, or the seller, out of same. The ordinance itself does not specify mail order transactions as illegal.

I live in Hollywood and I have many vendors that will send ammunition to me via online order and UPS delivery. Many others will not, and cite 180447 as the reason for that refusal. Midway for example.

Are the ones who will ship breaking the law? Or the ones who won't ship just needlessly covering the arses?

And this city ordinance is even stricter than AB962. It covers all ammunition, not just handgun ammo. You buy a box of .22LR within the city limits of LA, you're getting ID'd and fingerprinted.

Not that there are that many places to buy ammo in LA anymore anyway.

rromeo
12-30-2009, 4:34 PM
Are we sure about 2011? The radio this morning said as of January 1st, all ammo sales are logged, and require a fingerprint. A few newspapers repeated that.

OlderThanDirt
12-30-2009, 4:49 PM
Positive.

Carlosa
12-30-2009, 4:51 PM
Radio is wrong
February 2011 is the date.

bodger
12-30-2009, 4:53 PM
Are we sure about 2011? The radio this morning said as of January 1st, all ammo sales are logged, and require a fingerprint. A few newspapers repeated that.

Just FUD that the antis no doubt rejoice over. It's definitely 2011 and won't see the light of day then either.

Thanks for all of the advice - I'll be on here a lot from the looks of it!


Be sure to familiarize yourself with all the transporting laws, etc., and insure that everything you brought with you in the way of firearms is legal here.

This state is a rat's nest of absurd gun laws. And you can get screwed in court in no time flat.

It's being worked on, but we're not there yet by any means.

ke6guj
12-30-2009, 4:54 PM
Are we sure about 2011? The radio this morning said as of January 1st, all ammo sales are logged, and require a fingerprint. A few newspapers repeated that.


here is the law, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20091011_chaptered.html , you can see for yourself the Feb, 2011 date.

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 5:40 PM
Rromeo, the antis will use every opportunity to plant their poisonous seeds and discourage participation in gun commerce.

Calguns is here to combat their evil with the 40,000 member megaphone of truth.

sgtbuck
12-30-2009, 5:43 PM
Are we sure about 2011? The radio this morning said as of January 1st, all ammo sales are logged, and require a fingerprint. A few newspapers repeated that.

Channel 8 KFMB TV news San Diego just reported that it goes into effect on the 1st of January.:eek:

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 5:54 PM
Maybe we should shoot a memo to their producers and give them a chance to air the correction... :43:

Hmm, maybe I have just those direct fax numbers handy...

CenterX
12-30-2009, 5:59 PM
Isn't this amazing? Redefining marriage was nutty, but this is yet another over the top move to dilute reality. Maybe the author is ignorant.

"(c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks."

So, selling mags and speed loaders will require a license and these too will not be available from on-line sales. We might expect all on-line sales companies to eventually outright ban sales of all firearms related items to CA.

By the way - welcome to California. It was once a great place to live.

CenterX
12-30-2009, 6:11 PM
Based on the following - folks in rural county locations should not be impacted - we already have an anti-gang protection act in place - Smith & Wesson, Colt, Winchester, Sig, etc. in the reach of grannies, moms and step-children all set out per the second amendment.

"SECTION 1. This act shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Anti-Gang Neighborhood Protection Act of 2009."

When will they enact the Neighborhood in Lock-Down act? Special ID required to leave your homes, and only for select pre-designated locations and time frames.

rromeo
12-30-2009, 6:13 PM
In other news it WILL indeed be illegal to cut off a cow's tail except in case of medical emergency.

rromeo
12-30-2009, 6:18 PM
I don't know what other larger cities do this, but Sac currently does Id and thumbprint all ammo sales.
Ill take your word about the state law.

hoffmang
12-30-2009, 9:27 PM
Isn't this amazing? Redefining marriage was nutty, but this is yet another over the top move to dilute reality. Maybe the author is ignorant.

"(c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks."

So, selling mags and speed loaders will require a license and these too will not be available from on-line sales. We might expect all on-line sales companies to eventually outright ban sales of all firearms related items to CA.

Your interpretation is incorrect. The "this section" it is referring to is the section about selling to prohibited people. The only items controlled by the new log book requirement are those items defined as "handgun ammunition" not "ammunition."

Librarian has a good debunking of this incorrect interpretation around here.

-Gene

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 9:34 PM
At the link here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230961).

Your interpretation is incorrect. The "this section" it is referring to is the section about selling to prohibited people. The only items controlled by the new log book requirement are those items defined as "handgun ammunition" not "ammunition."

Librarian has a good debunking of this incorrect interpretation around here.

-Gene

Oldbud
12-31-2009, 8:12 PM
here is the law, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20091011_chaptered.html , you can see for yourself the Feb, 2011 date.After going into a store today Turners, Signal hill), I noticed all the handgun ammo has been placed behind the counter, that which prompted my query of why. The reply was the new gun law requires it in 2010, of course I interjected that "it" did not begin in Feb 2011.

The reply to that was the "documenting" of ammo sales does not begin until 2011, but the change to the accessibility of the ammo begins in 2010.

I did not debate it more, believing it was just more FUD that will eventually work its way clear.

Now looking at the bill, I notice that references to "commencing in Feb 2011" occurs AFTER stating the ammo shall not be accessible.12061. (a) A vendor shall comply with all of the following
conditions, requirements and prohibitions:
(1) A vendor shall not permit any employee who the vendor knows or
reasonably should know is a person described in Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code to handle, sell, or deliver handgun ammunition in
the course and scope of his or her employment.
(2) A vendor shall not sell or otherwise transfer ownership of,
offer for sale or otherwise offer to transfer ownership of, or
display for sale or display for transfer of ownership of any handgun
ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible
to a purchaser or transferee without the assistance of the vendor or
employee thereof.
(3) Commencing February 1, 2011, a vendor shall not sell or
otherwise transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition without, at
the time of delivery, legibly recording the following information:


Regarding 03/COE holders, it is obvious that the required FTF transactions contains the exemption which would/should allow online sales12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer
of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
...
...
(c) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect the deliveries,
transfers, or sales of, handgun ammunition to any of the following:
...
...
(6) Persons licensed as collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto whose licensed
premises are within this state who has a current certificate of
eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 12071.
BUT, there appears to be no exemptions for 03/COE holders when the purchase happens in a store; all required ID#, residency, birth date, & thumb print required.

For in Section 12061, (b)(b) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect
sales or other transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition by
handgun ammunition vendors to any of the following, if properly
identified:
the items #1-8 listed as exemptions do not include the 03/COE

The Director
12-31-2009, 8:19 PM
Calguns is here to combat their evil with the 40,000 member megaphone of truth.

Yeah, and there's 15,485,997* guns between us!:D






*Not counting Ajax 22's collection, or the number would be much higher.

bodger
12-31-2009, 8:29 PM
DeLeon would love to hear about this FUD festival his pet law has created.

I wonder what he has up his sleeve for next year's anti-gun agenda.

chris
01-01-2010, 11:36 AM
welcome to CGN. now that you see the disaster this state is. look for a transfer to a free state. for you are now in occupied territory.

cmaynes
01-01-2010, 10:10 PM
(insert sigh of relief here)

Thanks. Appreciate the facts.

Does anyone know if Burbank is on the list of cities prohibiting online ammunition transactions?

I live in Burbank, and it is good to go if the dealer will ship to LA county- I have not run into any troublesome vendors so far...

Esquire
01-01-2010, 10:15 PM
Was rimfire ammo like 22lr, 22 wmr, and 17hmr also behind the counter?

After going into a store today Turners, Signal hill), I noticed all the handgun ammo has been placed behind the counter, that which prompted my query of why. The reply was the new gun law requires it in 2010, of course I interjected that "it" did not begin in Feb 2011.

KylaGWolf
01-01-2010, 10:33 PM
Doublegobble Welcome to CA. You should be fine with Burbank and getting ammo on line. As Wildhawker said Calguns Foundation is working on getting a lot of the bad gun laws in this state wiped out. Until that happens sit back and enjoy the ride and join in on the fight. :)

Oldbud
01-02-2010, 12:31 AM
Was rimfire ammo like 22lr, 22 wmr, and 17hmr also behind the counter?I mainly was paying attention to the big bore stuff; 44mag, 45lc, 454, 460SW & 500SW :D but did notice 22lr were on the front shelves, while 22 shorts were behind the counter.

bodger
01-02-2010, 8:30 AM
It will be FUD driven and CYA with these retailers until AB962 gets completely knocked into the dirt. And for some time after that as well, no doubt.

This used to be an annoyance that was only found in certain municipalities. The fact that is state wide now is disgusting. Friggin' police state.