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View Full Version : What is considered a weapon in your vehicle?


titan
12-26-2009, 12:21 AM
I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.

Here is my question, is a disassembled firearm considered a weapon? Like an AR with a upper in a locked container an the lower in a different locked container? Or a pistol with the slide removed, frame and slide in two seperate locked cases? What's the difference between firearm parts and firearm?

I am not trying to be a jerk or smart *****, and I am not trying to find a loophole, I am really just wondering if I have parts in the car whether I would be telling a lie to say respond "NO" to the question " do you have any weapons in the car". IMO, if you can say no without lying to LE, you avoid a lot of potential for any problems??

Sure they can still search your car and find the parts with PC, but if that's going to happen after answering "no" to the weapons question, you were in for a frustrating day from the moment you got pulled over.

I don't lie to LE but I also don't ever want to make my life more complicated either.

Sure, I have rights, but even with these rights, I just don't want the headache should I ever get pulled over with a LEO who is going to push the limit with me.

elsolo
12-26-2009, 2:08 AM
It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer.

If the cop has P.C., he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer.

If the cop does not have P.C., he won't search your car unless you voluntarily waive your 4th amendment rights.

What kind of bad outcomes are you imagining?

pullnshoot25
12-26-2009, 2:25 AM
This has been answered quite a few times in the last few hours.

However, storing lawfully and then NOT CONSENTING TO WARRANTLESS SEARCHES IS THE BEST POLICY!

Flexyourrights.org

CARRY ON!

-N8

titan
12-26-2009, 2:47 AM
The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.

pullnshoot25
12-26-2009, 10:45 AM
The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.

BIG MISTAKE

titan
12-26-2009, 12:17 PM
So where does that leave us on the questions of what's considered a weapon? Does anybody know the answer to this?

paul0660
12-26-2009, 12:27 PM
The part with the serial number is always a gun. The rest of the stuff, when disassembled, is parts.

Librarian
12-26-2009, 12:32 PM
The part with the serial number is always a gun. The rest of the stuff, when disassembled, is parts.

Right.

Disassembled does not matter. People v Hale (1974) (http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CCA%5CCA3%5C1974%5C19741120_0040106.CA.htm/qx%29) A firearm disassembled into two or more parts, can nevertheless constitute an operable weapon within the meaning of the Dangerous Weapons Control Law. (People v. Ekberg,94 Cal. App. 2d 613, 616-617 [211 P.2d 316]; see also, State v. Ware (Fla.App.) 253 So.2d 145.)

bodger
12-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Remaining silent and not consenting to a search, for me, is being honest and legal.

I'm going to exercise my rights regardless of what I am asked. An LEO can and will try to get you talking and lead yourself to slaughter. As in allowing them to search when you don't have to, and letting them find your OLL with a bullet button and call it an AW.

Transport your legal firearms in a legal manner and out of sight, and don't consent to an illegal search.

Hell, a baseball bat is a weapon in this state. A crescent wrench, lug wrench, you name it. Stripped lower is a firearm, etc.

Make them work to bust you. Make them do it so it will stand the light of day in court and within department policy.

The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.

titan
12-26-2009, 12:40 PM
thanks, I guess that answers the question.

tombinghamthegreat
12-26-2009, 12:44 PM
Dissembling is pointless since it is still a firearm. Might as well just have the rifle either in a locked container like a trunk with the ammo for school zones or if that is a non issue just just put it somewhere out of sight if you don't want to draw in attention.

dave1947
12-26-2009, 1:12 PM
A ballpoint pen, a screwdriver, a rope,a 3cell maglight,pepper spray
; I have lots of weapons in my car

titan
12-26-2009, 3:24 PM
Good point. I guess there is no way around the potential risks involved with transporting firearms.

loudninja
12-27-2009, 1:43 AM
as pointed out from the last few posts, anything within reach of the driver can be considered and deadly weapon. paperweight, pen, rolled up newspaper, you name it. LOL

also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".

bigcalidave
12-27-2009, 2:27 AM
also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Why not?
"do you have any weapons in your car?"
"no"
"have a nice day"

GrizzlyGuy
12-27-2009, 7:03 AM
I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.

From a legal standpoint, the safest way to handle police questioning is to not answer their questions at all. You could remain completely silent, but saying something like this will likely make the encounter go better: 'Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job, and I respect that. By law I'm not required to answer any of your questions, and I'm not going to, and I hope that you respect that as well'.

I've heard many people recommend making the 'I have nothing illegal in the car' statement. I disagree, as there may actually be something illegal in your car that you are unaware of. Should you end up being arrested and charged with something, your false statement will now be used against you. Silence is golden.

These two videos explain why answering questions is virtually always a bad idea:

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE)

And of course, never-ever consent to a search.

rrr70
12-27-2009, 7:08 AM
Me.

Pig Rifle
12-27-2009, 9:17 AM
as pointed out from the last few posts, anything within reach of the driver can be considered and deadly weapon. paperweight, pen, rolled up newspaper, you name it. LOL

also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Wouldn't it be great to hit him with a newspaper? And you've gotta scold him too when you do it. "No!! Bad!! Now you go think about what you've done!" *WHACK!* :D

Lone_Gunman
12-27-2009, 9:23 AM
Yeah, just don't talk to them. I have had some success saying "well officer I respect that you are doing your job, but I'm kind of a civil rights activist and as such Im not going to answer any questions today." I like to throw the "civil rights activist" thing in there cause it tends to conjure up images of the ACLU and lawyers, marches and situations where the people took power from the government. My hope is it makes em think that you may have the backing of a large, well funded group with lots of bad azz lawyers (which we do) so they tread carefully. I don't mention which civil rights, if you start spouting 2A stuff at that moment they will most likely take a much harder look at you.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

And watch the don't talk to the police vids. Pure gold.

bodger
12-27-2009, 10:02 AM
Why not?
"do you have any weapons in your car?"
"no"
"have a nice day"


But what if you do have weapons in the car? if you say no, you're lying to a cop, if you say yes, as I understand it, they now have a right to check to make sure they are unloaded and/or being transported properly.

"I don't want to make any statements and I am not giving my permission for you to search my vehicle".

Is this better, worse, does it matter?

bodger
12-27-2009, 10:07 AM
A ballpoint pen, a screwdriver, a rope,a 3cell maglight,pepper spray
; I have lots of weapons in my car



I'm a general building contractor. At any given time, I have things in my truck bed, and cab that are some of the best weapons around. Axes, framing hammers, hatchets, pry bars, a .25 caliber Hilti ramset powder actuated drive pin tool.

I'm nervous as hell with all of that stuff, but what can I do? I can't lock all of that crap down every time I move it. Some of it stays in the truck at all times.

loudninja
12-27-2009, 11:04 AM
I'm a general building contractor. At any given time, I have things in my truck bed, and cab that are some of the best weapons around. Axes, framing hammers, hatchets, pry bars, a .25 caliber Hilti ramset powder actuated drive pin tool.

I'm nervous as hell with all of that stuff, but what can I do? I can't lock all of that crap down every time I move it. Some of it stays in the truck at all times.

have you seen mythbusters?... the one with bowlingball and hatchet in the back seat? lmao

ZRX61
12-27-2009, 9:31 PM
Thanks to my daughter:

A Brittany Spears CD

It's a crime against music..

ap3572001
12-27-2009, 10:11 PM
I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.

Here is my question, is a disassembled firearm considered a weapon? Like an AR with a upper in a locked container an the lower in a different locked container? Or a pistol with the slide removed, frame and slide in two seperate locked cases? What's the difference between firearm parts and firearm?

I am not trying to be a jerk or smart *****, and I am not trying to find a loophole, I am really just wondering if I have parts in the car whether I would be telling a lie to say respond "NO" to the question " do you have any weapons in the car". IMO, if you can say no without lying to LE, you avoid a lot of potential for any problems??

Sure they can still search your car and find the parts with PC, but if that's going to happen after answering "no" to the weapons question, you were in for a frustrating day from the moment you got pulled over.

I don't lie to LE but I also don't ever want to make my life more complicated either.

Sure, I have rights, but even with these rights, I just don't want the headache should I ever get pulled over with a LEO who is going to push the limit with me.

I am a cop. If I ask You if You ," Sir, do You have any weapons in Your vehicle?". If you say, " No officer" and I will find Uppers and lowers , slides and frames etc. I will ask You why You did not tell me about Your weapons. If I stop two people ,for a reason and find that one of them has a frame and a magazine for a Glock and the other has the upper unit, it will not very good . To say the least.

bigcalidave
12-27-2009, 11:26 PM
I am a cop. If I ask You if You ," Sir, do You have any weapons in Your vehicle?". If you say, " No officer" and I will find Uppers and lowers , slides and frames etc. I will ask You why You did not tell me about Your weapons. If I stop two people ,for a reason and find that one of them has a frame and a magazine for a Glock and the other has the upper unit, it will not very good . To say the least.

If someone says "No Officer" why are you going to continue on your search? And if you find them, and they are legal, what exactly do you plan on doing about it?

bigcalidave
12-27-2009, 11:28 PM
But what if you do have weapons in the car? if you say no, you're lying to a cop, if you say yes, as I understand it, they now have a right to check to make sure they are unloaded and/or being transported properly.

"I don't want to make any statements and I am not giving my permission for you to search my vehicle".

Is this better, worse, does it matter?

Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!

titan
12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
This whole situation is really not good, who needs extra stress in their life, I don't. I wouldn't worry about this except for the horror stories I read here where guys with rifles with a BB are being arrested and having their lawfully owned property taken from them because some LEO do not understand the laws governing these rifles. I am not bashing LEO, but if you turn the tables I'm sure you would feel the same.

I guess if you drive with a legal firearm stored in accordance to the law just hope you never get pulled over. If you do, then pray they don't ask if you have a weapon in the car as you don't know if it's a LEO who is also a CALGUNs member or one who is going to make day turn really bad for being honest and following the law.

I guess it's the price we must pay in CA having this hobby,

Edit, I mean exercising our 2nd amendment rights.

Sorry this thread carried on too long.

tombinghamthegreat
12-28-2009, 12:04 AM
Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!

It is more ideal to remain silent and use your 5th amendment rights. For example if a cop asks do you have any weapons respond by saying i have nothing illegal. The cop cannot use that response as probable cause to search your car. If they do not have a warrant or no probable cause (if an AR is in plain sight that is PC, plain sight rule) there is not much they can do besides trying to scare you into surrendering your rights.

bigcalidave
12-28-2009, 1:30 AM
They can't use "No" as PC to search you either. Where one statement ends the line of questioning, and the other leads to more questions. I still can't remember a time when I was asked about weapons in the car, and getting pulled over MANY times (for driving hondas.. Oh Noes!!) I have lots of experience with it. If they did ask me, the answer would always be no.

bodger
12-28-2009, 8:14 AM
Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!


I don't know if it's illegal or not. But I'm not going to tell lies when I'm not doing anything illegal in the first place and don't have to speak at all.

Does anyone know if lying to a cop is illegal?

Lone_Gunman
12-28-2009, 8:22 AM
It is my understanding that lying to a federal officer who is questioning you pursuant to a federal investigation is illegal. AFAIK lying to a regular city or state cop is not against the law. If any of our esteemed officers here would like to dig up the code that proves me wrong I would love to see it.

Sniper3142
12-28-2009, 8:23 AM
If someone says "No Officer" why are you going to continue on your search? And if you find them, and they are legal, what exactly do you plan on doing about it?

I'd really like an answer to this one also.

GrizzlyGuy
12-28-2009, 9:22 AM
I don't know if it's illegal or not. But I'm not going to tell lies when I'm not doing anything illegal in the first place and don't have to speak at all.

+1000

Even if lying to a cop is legal, your lie would be used against you to impune your honesty and credibility if you ended up getting charged with something. There is no reason to ever lie and risk that, since 5A allows you to remain completely silent.


Does anyone know if lying to a cop is illegal?

It depends on the circumstance. Providing false information (even if not a lie) to a federal agent is a crime per 18 USC 1001 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1001.html).

Falsely identifying yourself to a LEO is illegal per 148.9 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.9.html).

If your lie ends up delaying or hindering the cop, they could charge you with their swiss-army-knife crime
148 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.html).

If you file a complaint against an officer and include false information, that used to be a crime per 148.6 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.6.html). However, the 9th circuit ruled that the law was unconstitutional in Chaker v. Crogan (http://openjurist.org/428/f3d/1215/chaker-v-croga) (summary article on that is here (http://sfattorney.typepad.com/law/2005/11/9th_circuit_dec.html)). :D

There may be other specific instances when lying to a cop is illegal. I think I spotted another one the other day, but my recollection is failing me at the moment.

Hanger9
12-28-2009, 9:28 AM
I have a friend who was arrested for having nunchucks in his car. nunchucks!!! Luckily he was signing up for the Marines and his recruiting office took care of the deadly weapons charges. Damn pieces of wood held together with a chain.

Answering your question I think just having a lower in your vehicle would be considered a weapon since that is what you get licensed if I am correct.

bodger
12-28-2009, 12:02 PM
have you seen mythbusters?... the one with bowlingball and hatchet in the back seat? lmao

Yeah, that was a good one. I love that show.

+1000

Even if lying to a cop is legal, your lie would be used against you to impune your honesty and credibility if you ended up getting charged with something. There is no reason to ever lie and risk that, since 5A allows you to remain completely silent.



It depends on the circumstance. Providing false information (even if not a lie) to a federal agent is a crime per 18 USC 1001 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1001.html).

Falsely identifying yourself to a LEO is illegal per 148.9 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.9.html).

If your lie ends up delaying or hindering the cop, they could charge you with their swiss-army-knife crime
148 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.html).

If you file a complaint against an officer and include false information, that used to be a crime per 148.6 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/148.6.html). However, the 9th circuit ruled that the law was unconstitutional in Chaker v. Crogan (http://openjurist.org/428/f3d/1215/chaker-v-croga) (summary article on that is here (http://sfattorney.typepad.com/law/2005/11/9th_circuit_dec.html)). :D

There may be other specific instances when lying to a cop is illegal. I think I spotted another one the other day, but my recollection is failing me at the moment.

Yep, silence is absolutely golden. I'm saying nothing, truth, lies, or otherwise incriminating. Keeping my mouth shut.
If I get stopped by the cops and I have my legal weapons legally secured, they couldn't get a dime between my teeth with a jackhammer.

gzinga
12-28-2009, 12:42 PM
I got pulled over by a copper few months ago and he asked me exactly that question, "do you have anything illegal"? I responded to him, "meaning"? He replied "I don't know". It just ended there.....

when I have my toys in the car I tend to drive extra carefully and just be smoother.....

benelli shooter
03-06-2010, 10:21 PM
I just watched the "Don't talk to Police" clip. Does this also apply to the checkpoints that are setup 40 miles from the border?

When I go hunting near Niland, there is a checkpoint. They always ask questions like:

1. Where are you coming from?
2. Is that your son? (when my boy hunts with me)
3. Other personal questions...

Lately, when they ask where I am coming from, I just reply "I am a US citizen" and then am silent.

Can I just tell them "I am not legally required to answer your questions." and leave it at that? I would rather say that because it tells them to f*ck off in an kind, indirect way.

(I hate these Nazi checkpoints within our own borders. If they really cared about stopping illegal aliens they wouldn't give them all the free goodies.)

JDay
03-06-2010, 11:30 PM
You don't have to answer any questions, just shutup and wait for your ticket.

MP301
03-07-2010, 12:48 AM
IIRC, those checkpoints near the border are different...cant remember the details..im sure someone will come along shortly and clarify...

JDay
03-07-2010, 2:02 AM
IIRC, those checkpoints near the border are different...cant remember the details..im sure someone will come along shortly and clarify...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yHqpuVetLeo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yHqpuVetLeo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

GrizzlyGuy
03-07-2010, 7:02 AM
I just watched the "Don't talk to Police" clip. Does this also apply to the checkpoints that are setup 40 miles from the border?

When I go hunting near Niland, there is a checkpoint. They always ask questions like:

1. Where are you coming from?
2. Is that your son? (when my boy hunts with me)
3. Other personal questions...

Lately, when they ask where I am coming from, I just reply "I am a US citizen" and then am silent.

Can I just tell them "I am not legally required to answer your questions." and leave it at that? I would rather say that because it tells them to f*ck off in an kind, indirect way.

(I hate these Nazi checkpoints within our own borders. If they really cared about stopping illegal aliens they wouldn't give them all the free goodies.)

5A is always in effect and you do not have to answer ANY questions at a checkpoint, including the 'are you a citizen?' question. See here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3443538#post3443538).

Note that you could get beaten and tazered for not answering questions (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=246886), but the federal cops who did that are now in some serious hot water.

benelli shooter
03-07-2010, 7:11 AM
You don't have to answer any questions, just shutup and wait for your ticket.

You just proved my point. I think most law and order patriot types are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

chsk9
03-07-2010, 8:12 AM
You just proved my point. I think most law and order patriot types are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

LOL...... priceless!

benelli shooter
03-07-2010, 9:15 AM
Thanks Grizzly. I have the belief that if we don't resist the infringements on our liberty, we will get more. Thanks for your help.

I have to pass two government checkpoints just to get back from a stupid duck hunt. That is not America. If they want to taser me, fine. If they want to beat me for standing up for my rights in the constitution, fine. They have to take my rights. I am not just going to give them away for free.

scc1909
03-07-2010, 10:35 AM
5A is always in effect and you do not have to answer ANY questions at a checkpoint, including the 'are you a citizen?' question. See here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3443538#post3443538).
In the mid-90's I was stationed in the AF at Tucson, and would go through a BP check point to and from visiting my folks in Yuma. At that time their standard question was "Are you a citizen of the United States?" (or something very similar to that phrasing). My standard reply was "I don't have any proof of my citizenship on me.", and in all but one instance I was waved on. The one exception was an officer who repeated the question, to which I replied something like "I think that you stopping me for driving on a public highway is a violation of the constitution." She replied in a snooty tone that the question was before the Supreme Court, and that the BP had Fed Court authority to continue the checkpoints until the issue was decided (IIRC SCOTUS eventually ruled that the BP was free to do citizenship checks within 200 miles of the border).

On a related note, my stepdad (D-Day veteran) used to get irate at the checkpoints. He'd sit there holding up the line and pepper the officer with questions starting with "Are YOU a US citizen?", "How do I know that you are?", etc., until they'd tell him to get a move on.

I used to start laughing after about the second question. One day the BP officer bent over and asked me what I was laughing about, trying to intimidate me. I told him straight up, "I'm laughing at your defensiveness and embarrassment at having to do what you know is unconstitutional." He just growed something about getting a move on.

anthonyca
03-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Right.

Disassembled does not matter. People v Hale (1974) (http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CCA%5CCA3%5C1974%5C19741120_0040106.CA.htm/qx%29)

Librarian is amazing!

stan
03-07-2010, 11:24 AM
If the cop has P.C., he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer.

If the cop does not have P.C., he won't search your car unless you voluntarily waive your 4th amendment rights.

What kind of bad outcomes are you imagining?


you live in fantasy land.

reality:

if the cop has PC, he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer

if the cop doesn't have PC, but wants to search your car anyway, he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer.

i've been searched for having "tinted windows" which in reality are not even tinted. PC or not, if the officer wants to search you he can and will.

AJAX22
03-07-2010, 12:42 PM
Tinted windows is NOT PC for a search.

if they arrest you they can do an inventory search (which is B.S. and unconstitutional IMHO but they CAN and WILL do it)

Tinted windows is an excuse to pull you over, but it does not constitute probable cause.

you live in fantasy land.

reality:

if the cop has PC, he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer

if the cop doesn't have PC, but wants to search your car anyway, he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer.

i've been searched for having "tinted windows" which in reality are not even tinted. PC or not, if the officer wants to search you he can and will.

advocatusdiaboli
04-25-2010, 9:46 PM
From a legal standpoint, the safest way to handle police questioning is to not answer their questions at all. You could remain completely silent, but saying something like this will likely make the encounter go better: 'Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job, and I respect that. By law I'm not required to answer any of your questions, and I'm not going to, and I hope that you respect that as well'.

+1 and thanks for the video links--I have seen them before but had not bookmarked them. Thanks.

Free America Again
06-01-2010, 12:54 PM
Wouldn't it be great to hit him with a newspaper? And you've gotta scold him too when you do it. "No!! Bad!! Now you go think about what you've done!" *WHACK!* :D

AAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! I would pay money to see that! Good one!;)

Glock22Fan
06-01-2010, 1:20 PM
I've said "I have nothing illegal" and stuck to it and had a nice day. I would cheerfully do it again.

OTOH, if you are more comfortable saying "Well Officer, I know you are doing your job but I am not obliged to answer your questions so I won't", that's OK by me. Saying nothing sounds a little hinky, but again you are not giving permission, and that's the main thing.

Those of you who say "But suppose they search it anyway and find something illegal?" So what? If they find something illegal, you're in trouble no matter what you said. They need a reason for searching without permission, and if they don't have one, the find will get thrown out.

It always amuses me, the way some of you think. Like the questions on the visa waiver form: I get the impression you'd get into more trouble for lying about your intent than you would for admitting that you intend to commit acts of terrorism and violence.

VW*Mike
06-01-2010, 1:29 PM
Well since I play softball, I always have my glove, a ball and more importantly, a bat in my car since I go to play after work pick up games.

When I drive my 4x4, I happen to have all sorts of stuff, chain, a nice shovel in reach for clearning trails of rocks and debris, two legged or otherwise (the 60 inch hi-lift is a little heavy to swing).

toopercentmlk
06-01-2010, 1:39 PM
I've been pulled over with handguns locked up properly as far as I know, yea I know that's the scary part. All I said is I was on my way home from the firing range and I have my receipt and I could show him if he'd like, it's a known range in my immediate area so the Sheriff didn't take that for suspicious. Also in the past I've answered with the polite "nothing illicit in my car or on my person sir" response in the past when I didn't even have anything at all, the key word here is polite and not appearing like a hood.

I used to get rolled all the damn time from the time I started driving around 16 to the age of 20, I don't drive a lowered bmw anymore and I think that along with being a seasoned young adult has a lot to do with it. I did get very used to speaking calmly to prying sheriffs lol, CHP not so much.

-hanko
06-01-2010, 2:21 PM
Right now, a loaded FAL Para on the floor in front of the middle seats, and a Colt lightweight Officer's model in the console. During bird season, you could reasonably expect a 12 & a 20.;)

-hanko

faterikcartman
06-01-2010, 3:20 PM
There have been some awesome and hilarious posts in this thread; thank you guys! Here's my share:

I've been pulled over by police at least 25 times, probably more. I've been given a field sobriety test and/or breathalyzer at least three times. But I've NEVER been asked if I have any weapons in the car. Even when they pulled the rifle and knife out of my trunk at the Mexican border right after my passenger told me they had illegal contraband in their bag right before we pulled into the checkpoint.

So I have to ask: what the hell do you guys look like/act like to get asked about weapons?

Also, it is my opinion that if "they" want you, they can make your life miserable whether you are guilty or innocent. A couple years ago my municipality muscled my wife and I with municipal code making weeds and barren patches of dirt on your property not only criminal acts but subject to $1,000 a day fines. Do you think many people are charged with this stuff? Driving around my town the answer is clearly no. Are they there if "they" decide to F with you? Yes. So my advice is to do as little as possible to get "them" pissed at you. Fair? Not in my opinion. But that is the country we live in today, IMO. Even if you win lawyers fees can destroy you. As for the Constitution, it is essentially worthless, also IMO. YMMV.

camsoup
06-01-2010, 5:52 PM
But what if you do have weapons in the car? if you say no, you're lying to a cop, if you say yes, as I understand it, they now have a right to check to make sure they are unloaded and/or being transported properly.

"I don't want to make any statements and I am not giving my permission for you to search my vehicle".

Is this better, worse, does it matter?


Lying to an officer is not a crime. Its only illegal to lie to Federal Officers.

Crom
06-01-2010, 6:53 PM
The best advice is not to answer any questions. The last time I got pulled over I compiled with every request but I never said one word. I received my speeding ticket, he even reduced the speed for me and let me go.

No big deal. The cops aren't really out to get you. But in case they are, just don't talk!

VW*Mike
06-01-2010, 10:16 PM
Sure, there may not be a specific law code for lying to a cop, but if they find out, you have "interfered with a police investigation".... try it and let us know how it works out.

If they WANT to make your life miserable, they can and will for anything WITHOUT any weapons in the car. I think cops in general get a bad shake on this board. There are bad apples in any line of business, auto repair, home loans, etc that have ruined it for the rest of us hard working honest ones. I have a few LEO's as friends/family, think of it if you were in their shoes:

You pull someone over for speeding. Their car is in good condition, they are well groomed, nice to you, courteous, respectful, answer your questions, have a clean record, obviously they aren't the problem with society, you have bigger fish to fry, write them a ticket and off you go.

Next stop is again for speeding, this car is trashed, expired tags, driver is covered in gang tattoo's, has a prior and a bad attitude, you bet he is going to get a little more thorough of a going over and run around.

You want to avoid being harassed by a cop? Don't look like you are up to no good, and don't be a D$(% to them. I have always found this works well.

faterikcartman
06-01-2010, 11:54 PM
Mike, that's great advice and why, despite the things I mentioned in my post above, I've never been arrested nor ever had even a single point on my driving record (I have hired a traffic ticket attorney about five times in the past few years whilst owning two Porsches and two motorcycles, however, and they can be worth every penny and then some).

KylaGWolf
06-02-2010, 11:28 PM
The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.

Easy carry a CGN flowchart showing what is legal and what is not. Hell carry a copy or two extra and hand out to the LEO's that don't know they then become educated.

calixt0
06-07-2010, 12:32 AM
'Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job, and I respect that. By law I'm not required to answer any of your questions, and I'm not going to, and I hope that you respect that as well'.

I.

I like this response a lot.
Ok so I'm not required to answer their questions I know there are a few things that they can demand. if driving a vehicle (ID, registration, insurance) your also require to give breath/blood/urine sample if asked, I believe they can do the field sobriety tests like making you count backwards, our say the alphabet backwards. Anything else? If they ask you to get out of the car, doesn't an open car door give them entrance at least if left open? These are the fuzzy areas where people will get in trouble.

Pont
06-07-2010, 12:54 AM
You just proved my point. I think most law and order patriot types are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
If a cop who has pulled you over has asked if you have weapons in the car, your chances of not being given a ticket at that point (assuming he pulled you over for a ticket-related reason and not just a fishing expedition) are next to nil and your invoking the fifth are not going to change that.

There are lots of times where being respectful and polite to the officer will get you out of a ticket. But that is only when the officer has not already decided to give you a ticket. If he's already written down anything on his ticket pad, you're not getting out of the ticket. IIRC, the pads are numbered and he'd be inconvenienced if a page was missing. Your only hope of not being given a ticket at that point is someone drunk driving by and yelling "PIGGY!!! OINK!! OINK!!" out the window.

If he asks you whether you have any weapons, he's already well past the point where he's decided to let you off with a warning.

slobson
06-07-2010, 1:21 AM
Right now, a loaded FAL Para on the floor in front of the middle seats, and a Colt lightweight Officer's model in the console. During bird season, you could reasonably expect a 12 & a 20.;)

-hanko

LOVES it

slobson
06-07-2010, 1:29 AM
I like this response a lot.
Ok so I'm not required to answer their questions I know there are a few things that they can demand. if driving a vehicle (ID, registration, insurance) your also require to give breath/blood/urine sample if asked, I believe they can do the field sobriety tests like making you count backwards, our say the alphabet backwards.

not so. they can ask you if you will take a breathalyzer and field sobriety test, and if you're feeling frisky and don't mind going down to the station you can refuse it and demand a blood test, calling the officer's bluff if you are not intoxicated and he is trying to mess with you, or quite ballsy if you are and you think you will get your BAC under the legal limit before they get your blood :TFH:

If they ask you to get out of the car, doesn't an open car door give them entrance at least if left open?

I seem to remember anything that was unlocked/left open being fair game once you exit the vehicle; quick, someone call librarian (a man that's forgotten more about the law then I believe I'll ever know)

azn_wrx
07-01-2010, 10:42 PM
This was an interesting article I found after watching the youtube video posted.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/05/28/immigration-law-up-close/

My views are quickly changing about AZ's new law.

timdps
07-01-2010, 10:57 PM
And we are all civil rights activists now...

Yeah, just don't talk to them. I have had some success saying "well officer I respect that you are doing your job, but I'm kind of a civil rights activist and as such Im not going to answer any questions today." I like to throw the "civil rights activist" thing in there cause it tends to conjure up images of the ACLU and lawyers, marches and situations where the people took power from the government. My hope is it makes em think that you may have the backing of a large, well funded group with lots of bad azz lawyers (which we do) so they tread carefully. I don't mention which civil rights, if you start spouting 2A stuff at that moment they will most likely take a much harder look at you.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

And watch the don't talk to the police vids. Pure gold.

gorblimey
07-02-2010, 2:21 AM
+1000

Even if lying to a cop is legal, your lie would be used against you to impune your honesty and credibility if you ended up getting charged with something. There is no reason to ever lie and risk that, since 5A allows you to remain completely silent.

[]


That's impugn, same root as pugnatious.

(Sieg grammar heil!) :)

Colt
07-02-2010, 6:59 AM
What is considered a weapon in your vehicle?

My rapier-like wit...

ALSystems
07-02-2010, 8:31 AM
What you really need to get out of a ticket and not have to answer any questions is a diversion. :D
Someone else loudly insulting the cop or doing something really dangerous will probably attract the Cop's attention more than your minor traffic stop. If I could just find a buddy willing to do this when necessary. :rolleyes:
If he's already written down anything on his ticket pad, you're not getting out of the ticket. IIRC, the pads are numbered and he'd be inconvenienced if a page was missing. Your only hope of not being given a ticket at that point is someone drunk driving by and yelling "PIGGY!!! OINK!! OINK!!" out the window.

Glock22Fan
07-02-2010, 8:32 AM
So where does that leave us on the questions of what's considered a weapon? Does anybody know the answer to this?


"Is there a weapon in this car?"

"Yes, ME!"

norcal01
07-02-2010, 9:03 AM
not so. they can ask you if you will take a breathalyzer and field sobriety test, and if you're feeling frisky and don't mind going down to the station you can refuse it and demand a blood test, calling the officer's bluff if you are not intoxicated and he is trying to mess with you, or quite ballsy if you are and you think you will get your BAC under the legal limit before they get your blood :TFH:


The only test you are required to submit to is a chemical test AFTER being arrested for DUI. You can refuse to do any of the field sobriety tests and you can refuse to submit to the Preliminary Alcohol Screening (PAS). The PAS is a small hand-held breath test and you would be read an admonition advising you that you do not have to submit to it. If you are arrested for DUI, then you are required to submit to a blood or breath test. By getting a driver's license you have agreed to submit to a test in the event you are arrested and refusing to submit to it will result in the suspension of your driver's license.

VictorFranko
07-02-2010, 9:25 AM
also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Disagree, answer all LE questions with a yes or no.
All LEO's know, if your gums are flapping, your lying.

Wherryj
07-02-2010, 10:14 AM
A ballpoint pen, a screwdriver, a rope,a 3cell maglight,pepper spray
; I have lots of weapons in my car

I have an "assault hammer" in my car. It has a bright orange plastic handle (probably for the purpose of inciting fear in an opponent), a sharp point and a razor blade.

I think that when I bought it the seller used some sort of PC description that it was good for smashing a window and cutting a seatbelt if I was even in an accident. No self-respecting DA would pass up prosecution against a weapon of mass destruction like this one.

N6ATF
07-02-2010, 10:26 AM
Disagree, answer all LE questions with a yes or no.
All LEO's know, if your gums are flapping, your lying.

Or STFU completely, and nothing you say can be used to put you on death row.

Conversely, STFU completely, because nothing you say can be used to save you from death row.

VictorFranko
07-02-2010, 10:39 AM
Or STFU completely, and nothing you say can be used to put you on death row.

Good point.

pullnshoot25
07-02-2010, 11:45 AM
Silence is the best. I pulled it 1/2 way on my cop the other night. He was a bit dismayed.

djleisure
07-02-2010, 12:37 PM
Or STFU completely, and because nothing you say can be used to put save you on from death row.

Fixed it for ya. Anything you say can only be used against you. Always talk through a lawyer.

ETA: The quote didn't actually need "fixing" - just trying to make the same point a different way. :)

N6ATF
07-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Fixed it for ya. Anything you say can only be used against you. Always talk through a lawyer.

That works too.

dbldblu
07-02-2010, 5:19 PM
There used to be a section in the Ca. Vehicle code that made it illegal to lie to a peace officer about a vehicle/driving/traffic accident type event. No idea if it's still there.

dbldblu
07-02-2010, 6:32 PM
found it (applies only to vehicle code, I think)

False Information to Peace Officer

31. No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information to a peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the provisions of this code when such person knows that the information is false.
Added Ch. 1264, Stats. 1965. Effective September 17, 1965.

spacecase0
09-30-2010, 4:27 PM
"Is there a weapon in this car?"

my answer:
"why, will I be needing one ?"