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View Full Version : "A Christmas Story" banned in the PRK?


Paladin
12-25-2009, 11:19 AM
I have fond memories from my *early* grade-school years of shooting BB guns in friends' backyards and pellet guns our own basement. This was in a major city of a Bay Area county.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89yiueWNGo

Unfortunately, I've read that our Nanny city government has banned the discharge of BB and pellet guns within city limits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppOXpyhM2wA

Q: Will Heller via McDonald do anything to help future Ralphies (and Paladin, Jrs) get (and use within city limits) what they want for Christmas?

Shane916
12-25-2009, 10:03 PM
Most urban counties (Sacramento included) have restrictions on discharging air rifles. The court case will have no effect on this.

cbn620
12-25-2009, 10:54 PM
I'd like to know what we can do. I was planning on taking my young cousin out to shoot his new BB/pellet rifle tomorrow. Didn't think much of it considering we were gonna be out on relatively rural, unpopulated land. Sure enough my county ordinance bans "pellet rifle" by name within one quarter mile of city limits, even unincorporated. Municipal code for my city bans BB and air rifle use by name within city limits.

How can they tell me I can't shoot a BB rifle into a backstop near no roads or streets, near no homes or places of business, facing in a direction where there are no humans or infrastructure in excess of a mile?

Is this something I would petition? Mainly it is city ordinance that is most prohibitive.

wksun88
12-26-2009, 5:36 AM
who cares, just shoot in your backyard and make sure no one sees you.
I used to shoot my gamo pellet rifle in the backyard all the time as target practice. I had one of those conical pellet traps that you could shoot in, no problems whatsoever. It's one of those stupid unenforceable laws

Paladin
12-26-2009, 6:35 AM
who cares, just shoot in your backyard and make sure no one sees you. . . . It's one of those stupid unenforceable lawsUm, law-abiding citizens, that's who.

If we get "Shall Issue" in practice via Heller/McDonald/Sykes, having a misdemeanor involving a weapon on your record might get your CCW pulled. While I don't know if that matters to you, it certainly matters to me. Getting a PRK CCW is one of the main reasons I've spent the time, money, and effort I have over the past 4 years on this fight and on this forum (and others).

All it takes is some busybody neighbor (or a parent who hears from their kid what your kid does) who notices that early Sat morning, your kid and a couple of friends get together for some target practice in the backyard or vacant lot. All it takes then is an officer driving by to observe the behavior to get nailed w/, IIRC, a misdemeanor and a $1,000 fine (I forget if there is jail time for my city). I don't know about you, but I would not want my kid to start off life w/a misdemeanor.

IMO, this is one of those laws passed under-the-radar that is meant to kill the pro-gun, pro-self-defense, pro-self-reliance culture we used to have, way back when. Liberals don't believe in individual responsibility; that is why they ban weapons rather than punish criminals.

This is also one of those type of laws meant to make EVERYBODY a criminal so that when LEOs show up, if you don't lick their boots, they'll be able to find something to threaten/charge you with. Unfortunately, some LEOs (and Assistant DAs) are like that.

And to think that when I was a kid, we used to carry pocket knives ALL the time and played w/fixed bladed knives w/>4" blades (camp knives), in the Boy Scouts. :(

Don't you just love "Progressives"? :mad:

Air
12-26-2009, 6:55 AM
I shoot my Red Ryder in the backyard all the time...

HskrVern
12-26-2009, 6:56 AM
If I had a nickle for every time the cops or my neighbors showed up at my front door telling my ma I was out back shooting my BB gun I'd be rich. I had gotten a "BB trap" box with the heavy rubber pad in the back and was always safe, but one neighbor didn't like me too well and we clashed often.

hockeeplayrr
12-26-2009, 7:05 AM
Here is what Garden Grove has on the books.

Excerpt from: Garden Grove Municipal Code, Title 8, Chapter 32:

SECTION 8.32.070: Discharging firearms -- Permit
No person shall fire, shoot or discharge any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm, or any air-gun, air-rifle or air-pistol, or any spring-gun, spring-rifle or spring-pistol, or any carbon dioxide or other gas operated gun, rifle or pistol without having first obtained a written permit from the chief of police. A permit shall be issued for periods not exceeding twelve months at a time and only where the facts presented indicate no danger to life, limb or property will be involved.

Prohibition of Weapons on School Grounds and Penalty. Possession of any weapon or apparatus capable of emitting or shooting a projectile, including, but not limited to: paint ball guns; flare pistols; pellet guns; BB guns; pressurized air guns; spring pressure guns; CO2 guns; sling shots and wrist rockets, on or adjacent to any school ground or any school-sponsored activity is prohibited. Any person in violation of the provisions herein shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of one hundred fifty dollars, or up to six months in jail, or both a fine and imprisonment.

(Ord. 2235 § 1, 1992; Ord. 1269 § 1, 1972).

Neo Sharkey
12-26-2009, 7:32 AM
When I was a kid I must have shot pounds of BBs into the backyard each summer.

Thanks for the heads up, though...I need to check local ordinances here before taking my son out with an airsoft rifle.

More and more I am agreeing with fictional Detective John McClane:

"F***ing California." <shakes head in disbelief>

Fjold
12-26-2009, 8:40 AM
BB guns aren't covered under the 2nd. They aren't firearms.

HUTCH 7.62
12-26-2009, 8:47 AM
Palo Alto has banned pellet guns and bb guns for as long as I can remember

redcliff
12-26-2009, 9:04 AM
BB guns aren't covered under the 2nd. They aren't firearms.

Of course the term "firearm" doesn't appear in the 2nd amendment either; and air powerred rifles were used in warfare prior to the adoption of the 2nd Amendment.

ALSystems
12-26-2009, 9:13 AM
who cares, just shoot in your backyard and make sure no one sees you.
I used to shoot my gamo pellet rifle in the backyard all the time as target practice. I had one of those conical pellet traps that you could shoot in, no problems whatsoever. It's one of those stupid unenforceable laws

A few years ago, a couple of cops showed up and said there was a report of kids firing a BB gun in the area.

CSACANNONEER
12-26-2009, 9:30 AM
It's not just in California! I'm willing to put money down that most urban areas in this country have laws regarding discharging air guns.

HUTCH 7.62
12-26-2009, 9:49 AM
It was once said on this site that Launching Anvils into the air is also illegal in Palo Alto

CSACANNONEER
12-26-2009, 9:51 AM
It was once said on this site that Launching Anvils into the air is also illegal in Palo Alto

I believe that it is still illegal to walk an elephant down Market St. (in SF) unless it is on a leash.

pullnshoot25
12-26-2009, 10:17 AM
Dude, just set up a trap in your house. A sheet of putty should suffice. Shoot and worry not!

wildhawker
12-26-2009, 1:36 PM
Black, while I appreciate your frustration many, many members here and at NRA MCs are working extraordinarily hard for the cause- by no means are these people "armchair advocates".

GuyW
12-26-2009, 1:58 PM
BB guns aren't covered under the 2nd. They aren't firearms.

HUH? Is this CalGuns??

the 2nd is about arms, not firearms. BBs can take out small birds (if your lucky).

Is speech free only if it is about significant issues rather than mundane or even silly ones?

.

obeygiant
12-26-2009, 2:11 PM
It was once said on this site that Launching Anvils into the air is also illegal in Palo Alto

well, there goes my plans for this afternoon. :(

Paladin
12-26-2009, 3:42 PM
Good thing the state of California's got you right where they want you. You're so desperate for that CCW permit they won't even give you, you'll do ANYTHING to stay in the good graces of your benevolent overlords...Wow, simply "Wow." Did you forget to take your meds today? Intentionally avoiding committing misdemeanors makes you think I'll "do ANYTHING to stay in the good graces of your benevolent overlords." Yo, moderators, Troll alert!

and for what? The far fetched hope that they might give you some of the inalienable rights you already have?This is too comical. Have you even read Heller? If so, please give me the citation where the majority says there is an "inalienable right" to carry concealed. Or is this merely your opinion? If the latter, are you on SCOTUS or do you sit on a federal court of appeals? If not, your opinion is, to put it politely, irrelevant.

All of the terrible governments the world has ever seen learn to control their citizens through FEAR, and it's thinking like this that makes it possible. You remain a loyal party member and do everything they tell you, and one day they *might* give you a bone in return. The freedoms we enjoy in this country (or at least, what's left of them) weren't won by a bunch of law abiding citizens who obeyed the rules so well that England was kind enough to grant us our independence in return. Sorry, but cowering before a state that blatantly disregards the constitution of the United States, in the hope that they might be nice to you in the future, is an epic FAIL and is not behavior worthy of a citizen of this country.Wow again. You don't know anything about me, yet you are posting this, ahem, stuff.

This post truly makes you worthy of being banned.

Fighting for your rights means more than sitting in your armchair, staying quiet and waiting for a favorable ruling on McDonald vs. Chicago.Let's hear what you have done for the cause, Blackrazor.

Paladin
12-26-2009, 3:56 PM
no doubt. but to recommend blind allegiance to a system of corrupt or nonsensical laws is not a solution, it is an act of cowardice and self interest.Again, I never "recommended blind allegiance" to anything. You are hallucinating. You need to contact your psychiatrist IMMEDIATELY and/or go to your nearest emergency room and have them refill your prescription IMMEDIATELY! ! !

grammaton76
12-26-2009, 4:45 PM
Let's hear what you have done for the cause, Blackrazor.

Review this: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL

He wrote a letter to Allison, and got this response:
http://thegunwiki.com/pub/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL/blackrazorl1p.jpg

I am pretty confident your own resume does not stack up. Consider this a learning experience.

cbn620
12-26-2009, 4:48 PM
Blackrazor your point is well taken about blind allegiance, but I don't think Paladin is saying what you imply. I mean darn dude, if we're going to just ignore the laws, should we build AR-15's and not worry about a bullet button or avoiding any of the banned features? Of course not. We can be fighting bad laws and in compliance with the laws to a certain extent.

In fact I asked what we can do about this to get the law changed. Do you want to take arms against the state over BB guns? The founders wrote and distributed pamphlets long before the "shot heard 'round the world." Even they understood there's a line.

Lagduf
12-26-2009, 5:27 PM
Here is what Garden Grove has on the books.

Excerpt from: Garden Grove Municipal Code, Title 8, Chapter 32:

SECTION 8.32.070: Discharging firearms -- Permit
No person shall fire, shoot or discharge any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm, or any air-gun, air-rifle or air-pistol, or any spring-gun, spring-rifle or spring-pistol, or any carbon dioxide or other gas operated gun, rifle or pistol without having first obtained a written permit from the chief of police. A permit shall be issued for periods not exceeding twelve months at a time and only where the facts presented indicate no danger to life, limb or property will be involved.

Prohibition of Weapons on School Grounds and Penalty. Possession of any weapon or apparatus capable of emitting or shooting a projectile, including, but not limited to: paint ball guns; flare pistols; pellet guns; BB guns; pressurized air guns; spring pressure guns; CO2 guns; sling shots and wrist rockets, on or adjacent to any school ground or any school-sponsored activity is prohibited. Any person in violation of the provisions herein shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of one hundred fifty dollars, or up to six months in jail, or both a fine and imprisonment.

(Ord. 2235 § 1, 1992; Ord. 1269 § 1, 1972).

A sling shot on school grounds can be punishable by up to 6 months in prison and a misdemeanor?

Absurd.

Why not just confiscate and give the kid a detention and "don't be stupid" talk.

CSACANNONEER
12-26-2009, 6:14 PM
Let's hear what you have done for the cause, Blackrazor.

Review this: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL

He wrote a letter to Allison, and got this response:
http://thegunwiki.com/pub/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL/blackrazorl1p.jpg

I am pretty confident your own resume does not stack up. Consider this a learning experience.

If that's not enough, Blackrazor introduced me to OLLs and Calguns just before 10%'s first group buy of them. I was not able to get in on it but, without BR's comitment to the cause, myself and many others (whom I'm sure he also introduced to CGs) might not be here. So, he is indirectly responsible for the building of over 100 AKs at my build parties. He is also indirectly responsible for my bank account dropping to single digits a few times. I'm willing to bet that my story is not an isolated case.

Paladin
12-26-2009, 6:34 PM
Review this: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL

He wrote a letter to Allison, and got this response:
http://thegunwiki.com/pub/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL/blackrazorl1p.jpg

I am pretty confident your own resume does not stack up.

Great to hear that BR has done something. But that does NOT address the four trollish attacks upon me.

CSDGuy
12-26-2009, 6:39 PM
How about Sacramento County:
9.40.010 Firearms Defined.
For the purpose of this chapter, “firearms” includes any shotgun, rifle, pistol, revolver, or air gun, and any other weapon of similar use and design. (Ord. 966 § 1, 1968.)and...
9.40.030 Discharging Near Highway or Residence.
It is unlawful for any person to shoot, fire or discharge, or to cause or permit a firearm to be shot, fired, or discharged:
1. Upon, along or across any public highway, road, street or way in the unincorporated area of the County;
2. Within one hundred fifty yards of any dwelling, house or residence, or any other building, barn or other outbuilding used in connection therewith. (Ord. 966 § 3, 1968.)
and:
9.40.050 Permit Required—Notice.
It is unlawful for any person to shoot, fire, or discharge any firearms within the restricted shooting district except pursuant to a valid special permit issued pursuant to this chapter.
b. The director of the Department of Public Works shall post a sufficient number of notices in conspicuous places throughout the restricted shooting district warning of the requirements of this section. (Ord. 966 § 6, 1968.)

grammaton76
12-26-2009, 6:47 PM
Great to hear that BR has done something. But that does NOT address the four trollish attacks upon me.

You're certainly welcome to use 'report post' if you're hugely bothered by it. I've already done so and requested another mod to review it, as we aren't supposed to moderate threads we've already spoken in.

CSACANNONEER
12-26-2009, 6:51 PM
You're certainly welcome to use 'report post' if you're hugely bothered by it. I've already done so and requested another mod to review it, as we aren't supposed to moderate threads we've already spoken in.

I never knew that but, I like the practise a lot! It just goes to show how much volunteer thought and time goes into the day to day operations of calguns. THANK YOU KES AND ALL MODERATORS!

rkt88edmo
12-26-2009, 7:04 PM
This post truly makes you worthy of being banned.

Let's hear what you have done for the cause, Blackrazor.

Please take 2 aspirin, don't read any calguns until tomorrow morning, and make sure you get out of bed on the right side.

6172crew
12-26-2009, 7:11 PM
Good thing the state of California's got you right where they want you. You're so desperate for that CCW permit they won't even give you, you'll do ANYTHING to stay in the good graces of your benevolent overlords... and for what? The far fetched hope that they might give you some of the inalienable rights you already have? All of the terrible governments the world has ever seen learn to control their citizens through FEAR, and it's thinking like this that makes it possible. You remain a loyal party member and do everything they tell you, and one day they *might* give you a bone in return. The freedoms we enjoy in this country (or at least, what's left of them) weren't won by a bunch of law abiding citizens who obeyed the rules so well that England was kind enough to grant us our independence in return. Sorry, but cowering before a state that blatantly disregards the constitution of the United States, in the hope that they might be nice to you in the future, is an epic FAIL and is not behavior worthy of a citizen of this country. Fighting for your rights means more than sitting in your armchair, staying quiet and waiting for a favorable ruling on McDonald vs. Chicago.

IS it Xmas spirits or are you talking about telling members they should break the laws? or just vote for a third party?

There are 3 threads going on about Socal stops/detainments/arrest on the first page so thats why I'm asking you what you mean by addressing Paladin in this thread.

Calguns is great place to go for finding facts about the firearm laws in
CA but not so much the place for what I think your talking about.

oaklander
12-26-2009, 7:13 PM
Back in the 70's I used to walk around with my Daisy air rifle everywhere - never had a problem, and this was on a military base!

Sionadi
12-26-2009, 7:21 PM
I just gave my friend's 4 year old a daisy bb gun and 1500 bbs or so and set him loose in the backyard. He was at it for 4 hours.

Kestryll
12-26-2009, 7:29 PM
Frankly there is some validity to Paladin's posting.

I'd like to know if Blackrazor is indeed advocating breaking the law or just phrasing it poorly.

I'd also like to know what qualifies him to declare that others actions are 'not behavior worthy of a citizen of this country.'
It's pretty arrogant to think you can judge the actions of others and determine their worthiness of being a citizen.

I know full well what has been done, why not tell me I'm sitting in my armchair.

hardrivr
12-26-2009, 7:44 PM
Just checked out Temecula and it only says not in Parks... so tomorrow Im going shopping!

Paladin
12-26-2009, 8:46 PM
Please take 2 aspirin, don't read any calguns until tomorrow morning, and make sure you get out of bed on the right side.
Let me get this straight: BR writes, "but to recommend blind allegiance to a system of corrupt or nonsensical laws is not a solution, it is an act of cowardice and self interest" when I did NOT recommend allegiance, much less blind allegiance, to anything and then he goes on to call that behavior he made up about me "an act of cowardice and self interest" and you say I need to take 2 aspirins and get out of bed on the right side???

KylaGWolf
12-26-2009, 9:13 PM
Personally I try to not break laws willingly...well except for a bit of a lead foot when I am driving. Now you have me double checking the laws for here in SD since some of our neighbors get in airsoft wars at the complex.

rkt88edmo
12-26-2009, 9:22 PM
Let me get this straight: BR writes, "but to recommend blind allegiance to a system of corrupt or nonsensical laws is not a solution, it is an act of cowardice and self interest" when I did NOT recommend allegiance, much less blind allegiance, to anything and then he goes on to call that behavior he made up about me "an act of cowardice and self interest" and you say I need to take 2 aspirins and get out of bed on the right side???

I'd tell that too blackrazor too but I hear he sleeps on a rotating circular bed, so there is only one side.

oh yeah, and he isn't running around suggesting people be banned.

okimreloaded
12-27-2009, 9:19 AM
I live in a small town and i don't think we have any city ordinances against bb guns. Even if we did, I don't think I'd observe it. That is a ridiculous law.

wash
12-27-2009, 9:21 AM
You'll shoot your eye out!

















Just kidding.