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Sailormilan2
12-25-2009, 11:54 AM
In the event of my death, I have told my kids and my brother, to get all the guns out of my house and over to my brother's house.
After reading some of the horror stories about guns being taken after a death, I feel this is a wise course of action.
Most are locked up in 3 guns safes. Each of the boys has their own safe with their guns in them. I have a larger safe with most of them in it.
I have a binder with each gun listed and it is divided into sections as to who owns what, and the firearms description and serial number. I also have a C&R binder, which was used when I had my C&R license, which I have allowed to lapse
So, here are some questions that might be pertinant. Maybe someone can answer them.
#1. What constitutes proof of ownership? About 1/2 of my rifles were/are C&Rs, some that I have sporterized. Since many of my rifles are just logged into my bound book, and since I am no longer required to have the book because I am no longer a C&R Licensee, what kind of proof is needed if I destroy the bound book?
#2. In the event something happens, and the cops get here before my kids do, will the cops be allowed to search the safes belonging to my kids? Both boys are over 21, and one has the safe in his room, and the other's safe is in the master storage room. Will they be able to demand that my safe be opened for "inspection" and/or weapons seizure?

Any insight would be appreciated.

hoffmang
12-25-2009, 12:13 PM
Do you have a will? If not, I'd suggest you pull one together. All you would need to do is list each firearm by make/model/serial number in an appendix to the will and no other "proof of ownership" is required.

-Gene

SteveH
12-25-2009, 1:05 PM
I will instruct my kids, that in the event of my death at home, remove everything before calling the police.

One of my church elders is a Homicide investigator. The police do not routinely remove property from the scene of an attended death. In fact the conspicuous absence of valuable property immediately following a death may trigger a homicide investigation.

glockman19
12-25-2009, 1:15 PM
Why would the police need to be called at all?

Dead people get taken away by ambulance or coroner, many times you call the local morgue and they take the body away for burrial or cremation we called forrest lawn they took care of everything.

If death was due to natural causes then I wouldn't even let the police in the house. to die of nautral causes is not a crime.

Even if there was a crime...unless the safes were involved it is none of the polices business what is inside them. perhaps you have a valuable comic book collection.

Gene is correct...write out a simple will or better yet spend the money on an estate planning attorney and have everything spelled out. make your children co-executors and be covered as best you can. I'm guessing the value of the collection is more than $3,500...the most you would spend having it done properly.

SteveH
12-25-2009, 1:23 PM
The coroner will do a death investigatio in any death that was not attended by a physician.

If you have a heart attack and die in your house the firefighter will pronounce you dead and call the cops. The cops will call the coroner. In some counties the cops are the coroners.

ojisan
12-26-2009, 3:44 PM
In the case of a natural death, the deceased must have been seen by a doctor within one week prior to passing.
Otherwise, the Police / Coroner will investigate as they feel is needed.

You might also consider a living trust as opposed to a will, as the courts and tax man do not get involved, and the whole process goes much quicker.

CitaDeL
12-26-2009, 4:07 PM
In the case of a natural death, the deceased must have been seen by a doctor within one week prior to passing.
Otherwise, the Police / Coroner will investigate as they feel is needed.

You might also consider a living trust as opposed to a will, as the courts and tax man do not get involved, and the whole process goes much quicker.

Seconded.

The living trust avoids probate and a whole lot of hassle. My Dad passed in October and it has helped accelerate the process a great deal.

GuyW
12-26-2009, 4:14 PM
...die in the back yard....and keep the doors locked...
.

ALSystems
12-26-2009, 6:10 PM
In the event of my death, I have told my kids and my brother, to get all the guns out of my house and over to my brother's house.
After reading some of the horror stories about guns being taken after a death, I feel this is a wise course of action.

Sounds like this would save a lot of trouble.

Look at this example of what happens if you don't :eek::
Legal Guns Confiscated by Police
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=252807

ALSystems
12-26-2009, 6:16 PM
Do you have a will? If not, I'd suggest you pull one together. All you would need to do is list each firearm by make/model/serial number in an appendix to the will and no other "proof of ownership" is required.

-Gene
Do you have to be this specific?
Is a general will, "I leave everything to my son Z" enough for proof of ownership of firearms?

gbp
12-26-2009, 6:21 PM
Sounds like this would save a lot of trouble.

Look at this example of what happens if you don't :eek::
Legal Guns Confiscated by Police
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=252807

not really it would also trigger investigation if anyone was seen removing property from the house. gene has the best advice and a trust would definately save a lot of hassel

Meplat
12-26-2009, 10:06 PM
My living trust only cost $700 but then the lawyer is a family friend. My son owns everything already, he just lets me use it as long as I'm still alive.:43: Buy the time I pass I expect to have given away all but the most basic self/home defense guns and my militia rifle. :43:


Why would the police need to be called at all?

Dead people get taken away by ambulance or coroner, many times you call the local morgue and they take the body away for burrial or cremation we called forrest lawn they took care of everything.

If death was due to natural causes then I wouldn't even let the police in the house. to die of nautral causes is not a crime.

Even if there was a crime...unless the safes were involved it is none of the polices business what is inside them. perhaps you have a valuable comic book collection.

Gene is correct...write out a simple will or better yet spend the money on an estate planning attorney and have everything spelled out. make your children co-executors and be covered as best you can. I'm guessing the value of the collection is more than $3,500...the most you would spend having it done properly.

KylaGWolf
12-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Seconded.

The living trust avoids probate and a whole lot of hassle. My Dad passed in October and it has helped accelerate the process a great deal.

Yep. My dad and step mom had one set up. Step mom passed made things easier. My mom and step dad have one set up too. In all honesty I think anyone that has kids or family should do so there is no fighting over who gets what and so on. Makes things a lot easier to deal with.

hvengel
12-27-2009, 11:51 AM
A living revocable trust makes things much simpler. Everything belongs to the trust (so you will need to do things like put real estate, bank accounts and so on in the name of the trust) and while you are alive you are the trusts trustee. Meaning that you control everything in the trust. As part of the trust you set up the succession of trustees so your sons would be next in line if you die or became unable to continue as trustee (like getting too sick to manage the trusts affairs). Also as part of the trust you can specify what is to happen to the trust upon succession and the next trustee is bound by these conditions. Succession when the current trustee dies is simple since all that is required is a death certificate and the trust documents. Make sure the successor has easy access to these or has his own copy of the trust documents. Since everything is owned by the trust there is never any question of who owns any of the property in the estate and since succession is (or should be) clearly defined in the trust documents it is always clear who is in control of the estate. This is what keeps the courts from getting involved.

tenpercentfirearms
12-27-2009, 8:00 PM
Teach your family not to consent to searches. If the cops show up to investigate your death, it would be awfully hard for them to get in the safes if no one opens them.

You could also instruct your family to drag you to the front porch and shut and lock the door before the cops show up.

bigcalidave
12-27-2009, 8:38 PM
You could also instruct your family to drag you to the front porch and shut and lock the door before the cops show up.

Hmmmmm... That last bit seems... Harsh? lol

tenpercentfirearms
12-27-2009, 9:47 PM
Hmmmmm... That last bit seems... Harsh? lol

I personally don't care. I am dead. Hopefully they don't care anymore either, I am not longer there. Chop me up, feed me to the dogs, whatever. It won't matter once I am gone.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-28-2009, 7:43 AM
I personally don't care. I am dead. Hopefully they don't care anymore either, I am not longer there. Chop me up, feed me to the dogs, whatever. It won't matter once I am gone.


<Referring to the dead body of a warrior>

"It is now only an empty shell. Please dispose of it as you like."

-Klingon philosophy


The Raisuli

Ron-Solo
12-28-2009, 10:41 AM
Teach your family not to consent to searches. If the cops show up to investigate your death, it would be awfully hard for them to get in the safes if no one opens them.

In the event of a death, a search warrant is very simple to obtain.

You could also instruct your family to drag you to the front porch and shut and lock the door before the cops show up.

That will definitely ramp up the investigation into one suspecting homicide.



Tenpercent, you usually give great advice, but I think you missed here.

In 31 years, I've responded to hundreds of "person dead" calls. If it is natural causes, I've never collected any of the persons property. The coroner will sometimes take things like drivers licenses and social security cards (never figured out why beyond ID purposes) and they return them to the next of kin promptly.

The only time I've even been interested in what firearms were around was in the case of suicide or an extremely despondent next of kin. In the latter, we would find a stable relative to take custody of the firearm. In the previous, the firearm is usually evidence.

The living trust is some of the best advice in this post for dealing with ownership issues.

If someone dies in the home, please DO NOT alter the scene in any way. It will make it a suspicious death and a homicide investigation. In a natural causes death, it will become a coroners case if an attending doctor will not sign a death certificate. The process is fairly standard and is usually uneventful.

Removing property immediately following a death is also suspicious and may result in property being held for safekeeping to prevent theft. There are legal steps involved in this and it is a hassle for everyone (LE included) involved. Just secure things, but don't remove them.

Bottom line, if someone has a heart attack and drops at the dinner table, we are not going to be asking about guns in the home. It isn't relevant.

If someone dies from high speed lead poisoning, that's a little different......

Wishing everyone a safe and Happy New Year.

tenpercentfirearms
12-29-2009, 8:00 AM
Tenpercent, you usually give great advice, but I think you missed here.

In 31 years, I've responded to hundreds of "person dead" calls. If it is natural causes, I've never collected any of the persons property. The coroner will sometimes take things like drivers licenses and social security cards (never figured out why beyond ID purposes) and they return them to the next of kin promptly.

The only time I've even been interested in what firearms were around was in the case of suicide or an extremely despondent next of kin. In the latter, we would find a stable relative to take custody of the firearm. In the previous, the firearm is usually evidence.

The living trust is some of the best advice in this post for dealing with ownership issues.

If someone dies in the home, please DO NOT alter the scene in any way. It will make it a suspicious death and a homicide investigation. In a natural causes death, it will become a coroners case if an attending doctor will not sign a death certificate. The process is fairly standard and is usually uneventful.

Removing property immediately following a death is also suspicious and may result in property being held for safekeeping to prevent theft. There are legal steps involved in this and it is a hassle for everyone (LE included) involved. Just secure things, but don't remove them.

Bottom line, if someone has a heart attack and drops at the dinner table, we are not going to be asking about guns in the home. It isn't relevant.

If someone dies from high speed lead poisoning, that's a little different......

Wishing everyone a safe and Happy New Year.

I guess I should have used a [/sarcasm].

I know of one incident in Visalia where a guy passed away unexpectedly in the night and VPD confiscated a whole bunch of OLLs and AKs. They even removed the people from the house and wouldn't let them back in. I think it eventually all got squared away. So maybe instead of moving the body, at least put anything away you don't want people to see. You can also lock doors that you don't want people having access too and always refuse consent. It might make you look suspicious, but those are your rights and I don't care about how I look to law enforcement, I only care about my rights. Then again I have nothing to hide so I am ready to play the game.