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View Full Version : LAPD believes only police should have the right to protect their bodies with body arm


wayneco
12-24-2009, 1:41 PM
The LAPD believes only police should have the right to protect their bodies with body armor.


From: TheNixleTeam@emails.nixle.com
Date: December 24, 2009 12:xx:xx PM PST
To: xxxxxxx
Subject: Notification from the LAPD Headquarters

Hi xxxxxx

Community Message has been issued by the LAPD Headquarters.

Thursday December 24, 2009 12:xx PM PST


On February 29, 1997, the calm of the morning in North Hollywood was shattered by the sounds of automatic gunfire

The following letter was sent to the The Honorable Edmond G. Brown Jr. of the CA Office of the Attorney from Chief Charlie Beck:

On February 29, 1997, the calm of the morning in North Hollywood was shattered by the sounds of automatic gunfire as two heavily-armed and armored men left a bank they had just robbed. Plans for a quick getaway were thwarted by responding Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) officers. Over the next 44-minutes, brave men and women of the LAPD engaged Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Matasareanu in a ferocious gun battle that eventually left ten police officers and five people injured. It also led to the deaths of the two bank robbers.

The two bank robbers were no strangers to violence, having robbed several other banks prior to their attempt in North Hollywood. Besides carrying fully automatic rifles with ammunition capable of penetrating police body armor, they were also wearing military grade body armor. The carnage on the streets of North Hollywood that day was a wake-up call then and a reminder today of the dangers of allowing convicted violent felons to have access to body armor.

The law prohibiting convicted felons from wearing or possessing body armor was passed by the California State Legislature in 1998 as a measure to protect police officers and those in our communities from violent felons who are increasingly using high-powered firearms. The need for this law is evermore present today.

In 2008, in the City of Los Angeles, four LAPD officers came under unprovoked gunfire attack. In 2009, that number doubled with eight LAPD officers being randomly fired upon. Over the past year alone, there have been seven incidents of officers being fired upon. The increasing number of assaults with deadly weapons against our frontline public safety defenders is a clear indication that we cannot give violent felons the upper hand.

AN EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY – AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER http://www.LAPDOnline.org http://www.joinLAPD.com


Last week’s Second District Court of Appeals to overturn the 1998 law gives violent criminals the upper hand. There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel. I urge you to immediately appeal the Second District Court of Appeals decision. The men and women defending public safety across the state and the people of California deserve no less.

If you would like to discuss this matter further, or have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Public Information Director, Ms. Mary Grady at (213) 486-5900.

Very truly yours,
CHARLIE BECK Chief of Police

For full details, go to http://local.nixle.com/alert/635979/

Contact Information:

AndrewMendez
12-24-2009, 1:44 PM
Where does it say they only want LEO to be able to purchase body armor? What I think is funnier, is they fabricated their own armor.

nicki
12-24-2009, 1:57 PM
Criminals generally only wear body armor when committing criminal acts, let's face it, it isn't comfortable to wear.

The reality is if you are wearing body armor and you get hit, you still are hurt, it is just that you will increase your chance of surviving if you are hit.

From a taxpayer point of view, it saves us a lot of money in medical care expenses if bad guys are bruised versus wounded. Of course head shots are even a bigger savings since they usually go straight to the morgue.

Perhaps in high crime neighborhoods it may be wise to wear body armor, especially if you have enemies who want to shoot you.

The North Hollywood shoot out was rare, kinda like the Dillinger Days. Unlike the Dillinger days however, they didn't get away.

I wonder what the real motives behind the LAPD are?

Nicki

tombinghamthegreat
12-24-2009, 2:54 PM
Correct me if i am wrong but didn't the Hollywood shooters make the armor custom made, not bought them from a store?

r08ert209cali
12-24-2009, 3:00 PM
welcome to the police state...open your eyes

wilit
12-24-2009, 3:08 PM
Where does it say they only want LEO to be able to purchase body armor? What I think is funnier, is they fabricated their own armor.

From the bolded part of the letter...



There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel.

Cpl. Haas
12-24-2009, 3:12 PM
Correct me if i am wrong but didn't the Hollywood shooters make the armor custom made, not bought them from a store?

IIRC, they just took Kevlar inserts and wrapped them around their arms and legs... constructed custom fabric carriers for their bodies, etc. The Kevlar itself was standard.

r08ert209cali
12-24-2009, 3:15 PM
do you know how easy it is to obtain kevlar?

Legasat
12-24-2009, 3:17 PM
Sounds like the original law that got struck down was OK.

"The law prohibiting convicted felons from wearing or possessing body armor was passed by the California State Legislature in 1998 as a measure to protect police officers and those in our communities from violent felons who are increasingly using high-powered firearms."

Now the LAPD is saying "There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel."

That's a big difference. LAPD has got it wrong!

hkusp9c
12-24-2009, 3:27 PM
There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel.

oh ok what's next? Ban on knee pads, elbow pads and butt pads?

bigcalidave
12-24-2009, 3:28 PM
Seeing as only the two gunmen died that day, what exactly did the armor they made do for them?

Theseus
12-24-2009, 3:39 PM
Seeing as only the two gunmen died that day, what exactly did the armor they made do for them?

It allowed them to make fools of the LAPD while they cowered behind their cars with a rational fear from inability to do much about it.

Still believe that if we can't have it, neither should they.

NSR500
12-24-2009, 3:55 PM
LAPD can go to Hell with this notion. I have every right to own Body Armor if I want.

ar15robert
12-24-2009, 4:11 PM
At least the next time they need to go to a gun store to get better firepower there wont be anything left thanks to this dumb state

stan
12-24-2009, 4:18 PM
do you know how easy it is to obtain kevlar?

you can buy it on ebay both in raw fabric form, and any number of armor type items. and there are tons of websites that sell both as well!

Ballistic043
12-24-2009, 4:21 PM
anyone remember going to the gun shows and have a kevlar salesperson "SWEAR BY HIS LIFE" That it was going to be banned next year. only to come back a year later and find him saying the same ol crap

NSR500
12-24-2009, 4:38 PM
Yeah, that guy is always there.

yellowfin
12-24-2009, 5:24 PM
LAPD can go to Hell with this notion. I have every right to own Body Armor if I want.The LAPD can do to hell with many notions, not just that one.

romeomikelima
12-24-2009, 5:47 PM
*****

SJgunguy24
12-24-2009, 5:57 PM
Besides carrying fully automatic rifles with ammunition capable of penetrating police body armor, they were also wearing military grade body armor. The carnage on the streets of North Hollywood that day was a wake-up call then and a reminder today of the dangers of allowing convicted violent felons to have access to body armor.

Just about any centerfire rifle will penetrate "police body armor". There was a law passed so what's the problem? Oh wait.......criminals don't usally follow the law. So once again laws are passed and they do nothing to stop a criminal from obtaining what he wishes.


In 2008, in the City of Los Angeles, four LAPD officers came under unprovoked gunfire attack. In 2009, that number doubled with eight LAPD officers being randomly fired upon. Over the past year alone, there have been seven incidents of officers being fired upon. The increasing number of assaults with deadly weapons against our frontline public safety defenders is a clear indication that we cannot give violent felons the upper hand.

There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel.

How many civilians were killed or randomly fired upon during that same time period? Hundreds, or possibly thousands I would think. And yet they cannot carry guns to protect themselves like the police can. And now you would like to take away the only passive protection a person can buy to protect themselves from gunfire. Don't the citizens deserve the same protections as your officers? I mean.....they gotta live there and don't have a SWAT team on call.

My opinion is, arm the citizens. Bad guys go for easy targets and generally don't like to be shot at. In shall issue states the crime rate drops. Why is that? Because if Mr Badguy has a hostile work environment he might just find a different line of work or become a statistic himself.............Citizens using firearms to protect themselve from violent attack statistics.

Roadrunner
12-24-2009, 6:03 PM
Here's a sad reality that I think everyone is overlooking. Cops like Charley Beck refuse to acknowledge that citizens with guns would probably be a bigger deterrent to crime than the police, who seem to be becoming a victim more and more each day of citizen disarmament. Those type of closed minded control freaks who want to micromanage public order are simply facilitating criminals and their behavior. Suggesting that bullet proof vests and firearms that are preferred by police should be banned is simply evidence of this ignorant thought process.

wayneco
12-24-2009, 8:18 PM
The more crime, the bigger police department budgets become. A self fulfilling prophecy for empire building control freaks who want to lord over a disarmed citizenry. They don't care about us, they only care about growing and extending their own power and maintaining exclusivity of it.

This is particularly true in liberal jurisdictions where armed criminals roam free while we are legislated into cowering in fear, unarmed, at the whim and fancy of violent felons. We, the lawful, are reduced to nothing more than pawns in liberal utopias where thugs own the streets, knowing we have no way to push back on them and cops love out of control crime, driving ever expanding budgets for them and their fraternity.

I am so glad I left California for the USA. Here in northern Nevada everyone carries legally, and I never feel worried for my safety.

I do hope one day Calguns and others fighting the good fight pushes back on the liberals who insist on lording over citizens, I eagerly await the day when I can travel in the state in which I was born and be able to carry the tools necessary to protect myself from the rotten fruits of decades of utterly failed liberal social engineering.

bodger
12-24-2009, 10:30 PM
They are lusting for the day when they can kick our doors in and take our guns. Just like they did in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.

If the citizenry has body armor, that might make the job harder for them.

I would not have believed this is possible a few years ago. Now, I think anything is possible in this state.

I live in Los Angeles. Stripping us of our ability to defend ourselves from assailants has become an obsession with the higher-ups at the LASD and LAPD.

They want us weak and defenseless. I refuse to allow that to happen to me.

Roadrunner
12-25-2009, 5:48 AM
They are lusting for the day when they can kick our doors in and take our guns. Just like they did in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.

If the citizenry has body armor, that might make the job harder for them.

I would not have believed this is possible a few years ago. Now, I think anything is possible in this state.

I live in Los Angeles. Stripping us of our ability to defend ourselves from assailants has become an obsession with the higher-ups at the LASO and LAPD.

They want us weak and defenseless. I refuse to allow that to happen to me.

Now you've done it. You wrote LASO instead LASD. Stand by for the thunder to come down on you for this inaccuracy. :D Staying with the theme of this thread, the police here are far more accepting of firearms in the possession of citizens than police in Urbania. I'm not sure though about bullet proof vests.

Here's an article that's two years old, but it's still interesting and it's titled Bullet proof backpacks for kids (http://www.thestar.com/article/276474). Pay particular attention to Dr Eilenna Denisoff's and Marc Lewis' comments. It's strange how elitists think.

Rob454
12-25-2009, 6:21 AM
I wonder what the real motives behind the LAPD are?

Nicki


Stack the odds in their favor for day to day and really stack the odds for that one day when they start mowing down civilians

M. Sage
12-25-2009, 7:18 AM
In 2008, in the City of Los Angeles, four LAPD officers came under unprovoked gunfire attack. In 2009, that number doubled with eight LAPD officers being randomly fired upon. Over the past year alone, there have been seven incidents of officers being fired upon. The increasing number of assaults with deadly weapons against our frontline public safety defenders is a clear indication that we cannot give violent felons the upper hand.

There is an absolute need for a ban on these types of body armor for anyone other than law enforcement personnel or law enforcement related personnel.

Hmm, that sounds like a community relations problem to me.

bodger
12-25-2009, 8:45 AM
Now you've done it. You wrote LASO instead LASD. Stand by for the thunder to come down on you for this inaccuracy. :D (snip)


Fixed it. Thanks.:D

hnoppenberger
12-25-2009, 10:03 AM
makes me want to go out and buy armor before its banned! thanks LAPD for the motivation!

bodger
12-25-2009, 10:23 AM
makes me want to go out and buy armor before its banned! thanks LAPD for the motivation!


I'm wondering if they might ban not only the sale but the wearing of, even if you have pre-ban (if there ever actually is one) body armor.

I'm still amazed we are allowed to conceal folding knives. Considering they seem to want to strip us of all methods of self defense.

Seems like the only way to effectively defend ourselves from criminals these days is to do something illegal ourselves.

BobB35
12-25-2009, 11:03 AM
Unfortunately LAPD believes a lot of stuff that isn't legal. In the end they have the guns and you do not, so who is going to get thier way?

I am always amazed when people don't really understand what runs this country. They think this is a country of LAWS. Well what is a LAW - it is the justification of the use of force. So this is really a country founded on the use of force. It used be the right of citizen to secure themselves through the use of force. Now in CA the govt through the policing agencies is trying to create a monopoly on that aspect. Once that happens you no longer have freedom you have a police state.

Keep voting for the democrats, they will get us there quicker then we can start over.

SJgunguy24
12-25-2009, 4:03 PM
Now you've done it. You wrote LASO instead LASD. Stand by for the thunder to come down on you for this inaccuracy. :D Staying with the theme of this thread, the police here are far more accepting of firearms in the possession of citizens than police in Urbania. I'm not sure though about bullet proof vests.

Here's an article that's two years old, but it's still interesting and it's titled Bullet proof backpacks for kids (http://www.thestar.com/article/276474). Pay particular attention to Dr Eilenna Denisoff's and Marc Lewis' comments. It's strange how elitists think.

A few quotes from the "experts" :rolleyes:

"Taking safety precautions is good such as teaching children how to cross the street but the world should not be presented as a dangerous place", says Lewis.

The world is a dangerous place and one needs to be perpared.

Excessive safety measures send the message that the world is a terrible, frightening place, says Dr. Denisoff. Instead of feeling reassured, people become more anxious.

Where is this non frightening criminal-less world you speak of, the world I live in can be an evil place full of bad people with evil intentions.

"It keeps the fear alive," she says, adding, "At its worst, people are unable to leave their house at all."

"I think it's awful," he says. "It focuses the attention on something that has one chance in a zillion of happening."

This is one that gets to me, the way the gun grabbers portray the world is our streets are flowing with blood. There are guns in every kids backpack and these need to be taken away and everything will be all better.

With the amount of crime on the streets these days, why are we making protective clothing just for police?" wondered Adrian Davis, one of the partners

Smartest thing said in that article. My opinion is to have all legal citizens carry guns and wear body armor if they so choose. The crime rate will fall dramaticly if every person was armed. Badguys aren't looking for a fight, they're looking for an easy target.

gregr266
12-25-2009, 5:23 PM
RELAX people...the law is shot down if you want body armor go and get it no big deal....

hkusp9c
12-25-2009, 6:57 PM
It's not just about the body armor. It's the way how these "public servants" who are supposed to protect and serve the public think.
I feel soooo much safer knowing that these protectors think that us "sheeples" should NOT have a right to protect ourselves.

SJgunguy24
12-25-2009, 7:50 PM
It's not just about the body armor. It's the way how these "public servants" who are supposed to protect and serve the public think.
I feel soooo much safer knowing that these protectors think that us "sheeples" should NOT have a right to protect ourselves.

It's job security for them. If people were able to properly protect themselves and respect one another then how could anybody justify paying police?
If we are unable to protect ourselves then we need cops to protect us. The job is to serve and protect the public, but it seems the job has become observe and suspect the public. We are all guilty of something and they'll find out what "IT" is even if "IT" is nothing at all. Police can railroad anybody and have railroaded innocent people before.

I feel that being a cop has to serve a deeper purpose other than money or the "special privileges" that LEO's get. Some should never wear a badge but do so anyway, some who should never get the chance. There is a feeling of accomlishment you get from helping somebody. Risking your life to save another is not a natural feeling, but some do it anyway.
I hate speaking about LEO's in a bad light, but when the abuse of power is just so damn perverse it makes me want to puke. That makes me think why did this guy become a cop? Why does he feel that the public in general is below him?
I know the answers. They are like everything else in the world, it's an evil place and one becomes jaded with it all. I will always have the highest respect for the Police and the job. I just cannot respect all of the people doing the job, especially when my safety and my family's safety is worth less than my fellow citizen's family next door.......who happens to be a cop.

6172crew
12-25-2009, 9:13 PM
The original firearms and body armor is at the LAPD museum for display. The also show a movie that was never aired and has some really good footage.

IIRC they used a bushmaster with the third hole drilled, a mak90 X3 that was rigged FA, a HK91 that failed because a 9mm round went through the receiver and into the magazine and a few other pistols. The car with all the holes is there as well.

I went there with a cop buddy and we had to take a full tour of the place before they would let us inside the hollywood shootout room. You really get the feeling that the LAPD is all about "we hired more females and minorities than anyone else". The hollywood shootout room is a closet next to the female police officer section. I think they have a list of every female hired but no such list is available for males. The Onion Field section had 2 pics and no write ups.

Very politically correct is the theme but none the less its a great way to spend 2 hours if your in the area.

AndrewMendez
12-25-2009, 9:35 PM
From the bolded part of the letter...

Thanks!! I read that twice, and didn't catch how that was worded. Man oh man, I love this piece of crap State.

AndrewMendez
12-25-2009, 9:37 PM
The original firearms and body armor is at the LAPD museum for display. The also show a movie that was never aired and has some really good footage.

IIRC they used a bushmaster with the third hole drilled, a mak90 X3 that was rigged FA, a HK91 that failed because a 9mm round went through the receiver and into the magazine and a few other pistols. The car with all the holes is there as well.

I went there with a cop buddy and we had to take a full tour of the place before they would let us inside the hollywood shootout room. You really get the feeling that the LAPD is all about "we hired more females and minorities than anyone else". The hollywood shootout room is a closet next to the female police officer section. I think they have a list of every female hired but no such list is available for males. The Onion Field section had 2 pics and no write ups.

Very politically correct is the theme but none the less its a great way to spend 2 hours if your in the area.

Is that in Highland Park??

hkusp9c
12-25-2009, 9:51 PM
if a CCW could cost as much as $30k, hmmm I wonder how much it would cost for a body armor. $40k?
$70k every 3-4 years or so?

Oh crap, I totally forgot to send out the check for my 73 year old mother's jwalking ticket. She said the traffic signals were really confusing at the intersection and this OFFICER appeared out of nowhere and issued her and her other 70-75 year old lady friends jwalking citations.

I better send it out ASAP before SWAT kicks in her door in the middle of the night and ask her to cough out the money.

N6ATF
12-26-2009, 3:20 PM
I see the perfect police chief was chosen by Mayor Villar. One that will get as many law-abiding citizens maimed and killed as possible.

M. Sage
12-26-2009, 5:49 PM
RELAX people...the law is shot down if you want body armor go and get it no big deal....

No, we should not relax. These people work for us. We tell them what's what. Not the other way around. They have absolutely no right to say something like this.

Mayhem
12-26-2009, 9:20 PM
oh ok what's next? Ban on knee pads, elbow pads and butt pads?

I always thought big nanny was going to require citizens to wear knee pads elbow pads and a crash helmet just to walk outside your home.