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View Full Version : Woodland PD CCW rejection letter. I know, so shocked to be rejected


Calm Down
12-23-2009, 8:27 PM
I know it comes as no surprise, but here is a copy of my neighbors rejection letter from Woodland Police Dept. I'm intrigued by the wording; "...and our department's policy, to justify the issuance of this permit." His reasons were that he's a small business owner and carries cash and bank deposits often. Not that mere self defense isn't a great reason alone. He has since inquired about purchasing a Taser.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7439/wpdg.png

bodger
12-23-2009, 8:45 PM
I hope this state becomes Shall Issue and these LE agencies that are playing God with who can and cannot carry a firearm for self defense have to choke on being forced to issue CCWs.

LeRoy Baca in LA would be the first one I'd like to see have to do it.

CCWFacts
12-23-2009, 8:50 PM
Interesting thing to note:

The rejection letter makes a point, "After a careful and complete review of the permit application and accompanying documentation..."

I think they have seen some of the lawsuits, in particular the Torrance lawsuit, where the chief opened himself up to a lot of problems by sending a letter that, effectively, said, "we don't issue at all so we didn't even bother to look at your application".

The way that letter reads sounds like a reaction to recent liability concerns.

It will be so nice someday when the 2A applies in this state and chiefs like that can be pounded into the ground in federal court.

CitaDeL
12-23-2009, 8:52 PM
Clearly by refusing to issue a license to carry concealed the Chief is expressing their preference for defensive arms to be carried exposed. (Or locked in a secure case.)

bodger
12-23-2009, 8:58 PM
Yep. Locked down and unloaded. Out of sight, out of mind (or 911 call)...

or UOC, then they can pop you for being near a school nobody knows is there.

Ridding the jurisdiction of lawful gun possession, one bogus charge at a time.

Roadrunner
12-23-2009, 9:57 PM
Shocker, another miniature despot wants you to rely on him, and won't give you a permission slip to defend yourself.

I look forward to the day when I can walk in and tell them to give me a CCW without them sitting in judgment of my reason for wanting it.

Billy Jack
12-23-2009, 11:22 PM
The Chief's wording was done as a defense to a 14th Amendment lawsuit. He is indicating they did 'due diligence' and evaluated the subject's application. As the expression goes, talk is cheap. Exactly what did he and his officers do to 'evaluate' the application and Good Cause?

I will not state here what he should have done, as I do not share with the adversary what we seek on Discovery. I see these all the time but when you request the actual file all you find is that letter and nothing to support the conclusion.

California remains a most interesting state. Most Chief's and Sheriff's are what we call 'low hanging fruit'. All one has to do is reach out and pull them down.

Billy Jack

HUTCH 7.62
12-23-2009, 11:25 PM
I'm gonna try Sunnyvale. Think they'd be cool with giving me a CCW with all the OC'ers in Sunnyvale and Cupertino

Turo
12-23-2009, 11:28 PM
I look forward to the day when I can walk in and tell them to give me a CCW without them sitting in judgment of my reason for wanting it.

I look forward to the day I don't have to walk in and ask for permission to defend myself and I can just strap on my gun and walk out of the house.:cool:

Bugei
12-24-2009, 6:48 AM
It's a horrendous conflict of interest to leave the decision of who can and cannot carry a weapon to The Only Ones. They feel that they have a vested interest in making sure you don't get approved.

bodger
12-24-2009, 7:17 AM
It's a horrendous conflict of interest to leave the decision of who can and cannot carry a weapon to The Only Ones. They feel that they have a vested interest in making sure you don't get approved.


They also feel that every time they Don't Issue, they are keeping one more gun "off the streets".

Chief Bratton when he was chief in LA came right out and said he didn't think ordinary citizens should be allowed to carry guns anywhere but in their own homes.

WokMaster1
12-24-2009, 7:21 AM
I know it comes as no surprise, but here is a copy of my neighbors rejection letter from Woodland Police Dept. I'm intrigued by the wording; "...and our department's policy, to justify the issuance of this permit." His reasons were that he's a small business owner and carries cash and bank deposits often. Not that mere self defense isn't a great reason alone. He has since inquired about purchasing a Taser.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7439/wpdg.png

I would also love to see a copy of their dept policy.

OP, Big 5 sells the Taser for $299. You can find better prices if you shop around. So it is legal to carry it on your person. I hope that your neighbor files a suit again the PD with Billy Jack or CGF.

Eckolaker
12-24-2009, 8:36 AM
Dammit, you do not need a F'n permit to carry a gun.

Billy Jack
12-24-2009, 8:57 AM
Calm Down,

You failed to mention if your neighbor had obtained a copy of the Woodland PD CCW Policy prior to applying. If yes, it would be nice to see it. If not, your neighbor made a tactical error and shot himself somewhat higher than the foot.

I am amazed that people who would never apply for a CDL without obtaining the Driver Handbook, will apply for a CCW without first obtaining and reviewing the Policy. The vast majority of people who contact TBJ for assistance have failed to do so as well. It builds structural problems into their appeal and often makes a legal challenge virtually impossible.

You folks want CCW's, had better start doing your own 'Due Diligence' prior to applying.

Billy Jack

boxbro
12-24-2009, 9:03 AM
Calm Down,

You failed to mention if your neighbor had obtained a copy of the Woodland PD CCW Policy prior to applying. If yes, it would be nice to see it. If not, your neighbor made a tactical error and shot himself somewhat higher than the foot.

I am amazed that people who would never apply for a CDL without obtaining the Driver Handbook, will apply for a CCW without first obtaining and reviewing the Policy. The vast majority of people who contact TBJ for assistance have failed to do so as well. It builds structural problems into their appeal and often makes a legal challenge virtually impossible.

You folks want CCW's, had better start doing your own 'Due Diligence' prior to applying.

Billy Jack

Maybe you can make a do's and don'ts CCW application handbook that we can sticky somewhere.

Billy Jack
12-24-2009, 10:33 AM
Too many variables to do what you are suggesting. Much like doing a handbook on doing your own surgery.

Ron White said it best, you can't fix, well you know the rest. If applicants want to walk in flat footed, that is their right as an ill informed American. All they have to do is ask us or the other alleged CCW sites for assistance. You break it, you fix it!

Billy Jack

FeuerFrei
12-24-2009, 10:50 AM
I have posted about this before and I'll repeat it here.
If you do not know any LE/politico in Yolo county you won't get a CCW.
You have to know someone in the PD or SO department to get your CCW.
Yolo county is as corrupt as they come and even in the late 80's I got mine because I had a brother-in-law LEO "talk" to the the issuing officer and he rubber stamped me. Done. Nothing has changed.

Gray Peterson
12-24-2009, 10:37 PM
I have posted about this before and I'll repeat it here.
If you do not know any LE/politico in Yolo county you won't get a CCW.
You have to know someone in the PD or SO department to get your CCW.
Yolo county is as corrupt as they come and even in the late 80's I got mine because I had a brother-in-law LEO "talk" to the the issuing officer and he rubber stamped me. Done. Nothing has changed.

Luckily, Sheriff Prieto of Yolo County is one of the defendants in the Calguns Funded, Alan Gura litigated case of Sykes v. McGinness.

gotgunz
12-24-2009, 11:04 PM
Tell the guy to apply to the sheriff and don't forget to include this rejection (assuming he actually submitted the actual application and not some pre-application form from the PD).

Or appeal this denial.

artherd
12-24-2009, 11:52 PM
It would be interesting to sic a collection agency on the PD to recover the fees to hire your neighbor a bodyguard...

nicki
12-25-2009, 2:06 AM
Well, next year the SCOTUS will say the 2nd amendment applies to the states courtesy of the 14th amendment.:rolleyes:

Of course, this will open the run on all the gun suits that are sitting on hold till the incorporation issue is handled because one of the first lawsuits that will hit will be a CCW case in which Sacramento and YOLO counties are plantiffs.

I wonder which county Woodland is in?:TFH:

Now, when Sacramento and Woodland lose their CCW case, it will be humliating because of who the lead plantiff on the case is, The Pink Pistols.

This makes for Tabloid journalism that actually has a real story behind it.

So tell your friend not to worry, we will have CCW within the next 18 to 24 months in Ca.

But of course, some sheriffs and PDs will be stupid and with the 2a incorporated, I sure Billy Jack will probably scalp a few.

Nicki

Gray Peterson
12-25-2009, 2:30 AM
Well, next year the SCOTUS will say the 2nd amendment applies to the states courtesy of the 14th amendment.:rolleyes:

Of course, this will open the run on all the gun suits that are sitting on hold till the incorporation issue is handled because one of the first lawsuits that will hit will be a CCW case in which Sacramento and YOLO counties are plantiffs.

I wonder which county Woodland is in?:TFH:

Now, when Sacramento and Woodland lose their CCW case, it will be humliating because of who the lead plantiff on the case is, The Pink Pistols.

This makes for Tabloid journalism that actually has a real story behind it.

So tell your friend not to worry, we will have CCW within the next 18 to 24 months in Ca.

But of course, some sheriffs and PDs will be stupid and with the 2a incorporated, I sure Billy Jack will probably scalp a few.

Nicki

Woodland is in Yolo County, again they are being sued by Alan Gura, Calguns, SAF, and individual plaintiff Sykes.

E Pluribus Unum
12-25-2009, 3:16 AM
Here is an interesting question to ponder:

If gun rights exist to protect us from the government (i.e. the police), then how does the government (i.e. the police) have the ability to tell us which gun rights we have? This would never happen anywhere else.

Do companies allow employees to determine their own salaries?
Do tax payers get to tell the government how much they are willing to pay in taxes?
Do children determine the number and frequency of chores?

The obvious answer is "no."

So why then do we allow the government to tell us how much the second amendment protects us from the government? Should it not be us telling them?


P.S.
The question is rhetorical. :)

E Pluribus Unum
12-25-2009, 3:25 AM
Now, when Sacramento and Woodland lose their CCW case, it will be humliating because of who the lead plantiff on the case is, The Pink Pistols.

This makes for Tabloid journalism that actually has a real story behind it.


I disagree very strongly. Why is it embarrassing? Because gay people want second amendment rights too? I am from Kern County and I am a staunch conservative so I am by no means a "gay rights" person. It just so happens that in this case, "civil right" is sex, orientation, and race neutral. If anything it helps us. Gun rights is no longer about back-country, gun-toting, red necks; gun rights equals civil rights for all creeds.

Too often, the people who don't care either way on the issue will begin to stereotype. As long as the only people screaming "foul" are white, country folk, the more the ignorant masses will simply put a "redneck" label on it. We need some diversity in order for the the sheeple to recognize it as a legitimate right.

CCWFacts
12-25-2009, 9:18 AM
So why then do we allow the government to tell us how much the second amendment protects us from the government? Should it not be us telling them?

Yes, but here's one way to look at it:

You could say you have the right to carry a gun (concealed or open, loaded, without regard to school zones etc) right now. You have the right! You don't need any piece of paper to have that right!

You also have the right to own a rifle in any configuration you want (AW, full-auto, etc).

Those little pieces of paper (CCWs, NFA stamps, AW reg, etc) don't give you any rights. All they do is protect your from being arrested, charged and convicted for exercising your right.

You have the right, and the choice of:


Don't exercise it without getting the right little piece of paper
Exercise it and face potential consequences


A lot of people do pick #2, and CCW without a permit. If they are discrete and careful drivers and avoid interaction with LE, they can get away with it for years. But one screw-up will result in (at a minimum) big legal bills, misdemeanor charges and loss of gun rights for several years.

bodger
12-25-2009, 10:38 AM
Yes, but here's one way to look at it:

You could say you have the right to carry a gun (concealed or open, loaded, without regard to school zones etc) right now. You have the right! You don't need any piece of paper to have that right!

You also have the right to own a rifle in any configuration you want (AW, full-auto, etc).

Those little pieces of paper (CCWs, NFA stamps, AW reg, etc) don't give you any rights. All they do is protect your from being arrested, charged and convicted for exercising your right.

You have the right, and the choice of:


Don't exercise it without getting the right little piece of paper
Exercise it and face potential consequences


A lot of people do pick #2, and CCW without a permit. If they are discrete and careful drivers and avoid interaction with LE, they can get away with it for years. But one screw-up will result in (at a minimum) big legal bills, misdemeanor charges and loss of gun rights for several years.


Hell of a choice they have forced upon us.
Walk around unarmed and risk being unable to defend yourself if the need arises.

Or arm yourself and conceal without a permit and risk prosecution and loss of gun rights for a few years.

Madness.

redneckshootist
12-25-2009, 10:21 PM
I know it comes as no surprise, but here is a copy of my neighbors rejection letter from Woodland Police Dept. I'm intrigued by the wording; "...and our department's policy, to justify the issuance of this permit." His reasons were that he's a small business owner and carries cash and bank deposits often. Not that mere self defense isn't a great reason alone. He has since inquired about purchasing a Taser.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7439/wpdg.png

sigh I see this and then I read this article in the local rag.
http://www.dailydemocrat.com/news/ci_14069369

redneckshootist
12-25-2009, 10:41 PM
also I live in woodland and own a small business..... most of y'all know I own a gun shop in woodland. The armed robbery that I posted the link to happened less than a block away from where I live and is part of a string of armed robberies in the town in the last couple of weeks, its suspected thats it being done by the same people.

Calm Down
12-25-2009, 11:36 PM
I spoke to me neighbor today and asked if had reviewed the Woodland Police Dept's policy regarding CCW's. He sated he had been provided a copy of the policy when he retrieved the application. He will attempt to locate it and provide a copy for me to post. He stated he also had an email from a commander at WPD, with an interesting point of view regarding their issuance of CCW's which, in essence stated, the police will provide protection for the citizenry. I will try to post that as well.

My father has always said "It's not what you know; it's who you (blow) know." As stated earlier in this post, Yolo County law enforcement is uber selective in their issuance of CCW's. Both my neighbor and I have little faith with the Sheriff granting a mere peasant a CCW without a substantial donation to the Sheriff's next election campaign.

Side note: In 1986 Ruben Lee "Lucky" Williams owned a small coin shop in Vacaville. The night before he was to be at the Napa Flea Market, he loaded over a thousand dollars worth of coins into his vehicle upon closing his shop in order to take them to Napa the following day. He was accosted at his vehicle, beaten, kidnapped, taken to Cherry Glen Road outside of Vacaville and shot in the back of his head. His body was dumped in a creek and found several days later. Lucky owned a handgun and kept it with him at his shop; but being a law abiding gentleman, he did not carry it outside of the shop. Had he been permitted to, he quite possibly would have won that fight and a ten year old boy would not have mourned his untimely loss. Twenty-three years later, I think of him when I drive by the old shop or where his body was dumped. Those events greatly instilled the rights of self protection and desire for punishment upon those who choose to commit heinous crimes such as these.

I am a Deputy Sheriff and I fully support A.B. 357. I will be at the next committee hearing regarding this bill, to be heard once again regarding my views and experiences that support my opinion. Personal opinions come from personal experiences.

R.I.P. Lucky

redneckshootist
12-26-2009, 9:11 AM
http://www.dailydemocrat.com/news/ci_14072387
another armed robbery in woodland, its also thought to be related to the previous 3 this month.

Santa Cruz Armory
12-26-2009, 9:18 AM
I need to get on my application for Santa Cruz Co. We have a new Sheriff in town...literally. He's supposed to be pro-gun. His name is Phil Wowack.

HUTCH 7.62
12-26-2009, 9:27 AM
We have a new Sheriff in town...

Where are the white women at.....








Sorry I had to say it.

KylaGWolf
12-26-2009, 10:15 PM
also I live in woodland and own a small business..... most of y'all know I own a gun shop in woodland. The armed robbery that I posted the link to happened less than a block away from where I live and is part of a string of armed robberies in the town in the last couple of weeks, its suspected thats it being done by the same people.

I guess Woodland has changed since I was last there in 2000. Used to be a pretty decent little town. I miss the lake though...but I don't miss the hot summers.

CABilly
12-26-2009, 10:48 PM
Isn't there a chamber of commerce? Can't they band together with other local businesses and apply some pressure? Considering your neighbor's concerns, it seems as though the PD and, by extension, local government, is inserting itself into the private commerce decisions of private businesses.

Your neighbor should either call the non-emergency line and ask for an escort whenever he needs to travel with business goods, or send a bill to the PD/city council for his armored car expenses. Then get as many other business owners to follow suit. If the police insist on their monopoly, go ahead and hold them to it.

Or, we can kill a few birds with one stone and open up an armored car company in Woodland. I'd like some hi-caps to go, please :cool:

xounlistedxox
12-26-2009, 11:08 PM
I do recall applying for a CCW in Sacramento City several years ago(at least 5) I submitted it to the police department directly. I never received any sort of decision about it. My step father at the time was stalking my mother and she was living with me out of fear for her life and the lives of my kid sisters. I did not receive anything telling me I was approved, or denied. Two days ago I called inquiring about the application and they told me there was no record of it... big surprise.

picasso
12-27-2009, 12:41 AM
They also feel that every time they Don't Issue, they are keeping one more gun "off the streets".

Chief Bratton when he was chief in LA came right out and said he didn't think ordinary citizens should be allowed to carry guns anywhere but in their own homes.

I guess it's more on the liability issue. In the middle of a shootout, the police won't know between the ccw holder and the criminal. Unless there's a so called CCW Badge to flash.

hollabillz
12-27-2009, 1:16 AM
I guess it's more on the liability issue. In the middle of a shootout, the police won't know between the ccw holder and the criminal. Unless there's a so called CCW Badge to flash.

Uh... not sure about you, but I wouldn't draw unless I needed to shoot in defense of my life. It'd be pretty clear who the victim is and it would be over in a second. Life isn't a movie with criminals and lawful CCW holders brandishing guns at each other with dramatic background music that pauses as the cops bust in at just the wrong moment. :rolleyes:

IT'S OKAY, OFFICER. I HAVE A CCW BADGE. :laugh:

picasso
12-27-2009, 1:30 AM
You're imagining a one-on-one encounter and a one shot/kill scenario which is not always the case. ;)

N6ATF
12-28-2009, 12:24 AM
I do recall applying for a CCW in Sacramento City several years ago(at least 5) I submitted it to the police department directly. I never received any sort of decision about it. My step father at the time was stalking my mother and she was living with me out of fear for her life and the lives of my kid sisters. I did not receive anything telling me I was approved, or denied. Two days ago I called inquiring about the application and they told me there was no record of it... big surprise.

There's a special file these victim-disarming traitors use... and it is circularly shaped.