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HEUER
12-06-2005, 12:09 AM
Do you you think a young shooter should learn to shoot using iron sights before moving to optics?

Prospector
12-06-2005, 12:30 AM
I shot with iron sight during my young age, I thought it was fun IMO. Better view and focus, used a .22 rifle to play with. I also like the view of my surroundings.
Anything other than a .22 I would scoped. I wouldn't hit anything out 150yd without one.





Optics is like a cheater tool for our toys.

C.G.
12-06-2005, 12:43 AM
I shot with iron sight during my young age, I thought it was fun IMO. Better view and focus, used a .22 rifle to play with. I also like the view of my surroundings.
Anything other than a .22 I would scoped. I wouldn't hit anything out 150yd without one.





Optics is like a cheater tool for our toys.

As my eyes get older I am more inclined to use optics past 200 yrds; 200 yards or kess often I do as well or better without optics.

shopkeep
12-06-2005, 1:49 AM
I didn't grow up in the PRK, I grew up in Michigan and was blessed with a Ruger 10/22 when I was about 10 years old. It was just basically a cheap hand-me-down and had some really primative iron sights. My goodness I had so much fun with that rifle. My first REAL rifle was a cheap K98 I got at a show when I was 19. I still remember the SEVERE pain the 192 grain loads were on my shoulder LOL!

DEFINITELY iron sights first... the EOTech, AIMpoints, Variable Magnification Scopes, and other goodies can wait until the basics are mastered.

Rascal
12-06-2005, 4:18 PM
DEFINITELY iron sights first... the EOTech, AIMpoints, Variable Magnification Scopes, and other goodies can wait until the basics are mastered.

I agree with this.
There is no substitute for mastering the basics, plus what will they do if their scope broke or batteries failed, and they didn't have a spare. the iron sights will always be there. Learn how to use it.

artherd
12-07-2005, 12:54 AM
I guess I'll cover the dissenting opinion here :)

I don't shoot great with iron sights, especially on a rifle.

I honestly regard them like I do hand-cranks for starting cars. Obsoleate.

An ACOG is faster, equally reliable, works at night, and is FAR FAR FAR more accurate than irons ever will be (at least in my paws.) We're talking

I will go on record stating that the TA-01NSN and now the TA-31RCO ACOGs are the single greatest improvement to small arms since the semi-automatic M1 garand.

johnny_22
12-07-2005, 7:09 AM
All the young shooters using iron sights outshoot me. It does not appear that they need glass.

In the Garand matches, only iron is allowed. The Merit optical disk or iris peep sight help, for aging eyes.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

PanzerAce
12-07-2005, 7:14 AM
well, considering that I have terrible vision for a person of my age (-4 perscription :( ), and that I tend to find that irons on a rifle scew my glasses (cant stand contacts), I almost by necessity shoot optics right now (plus, and a couple hundred, its more fun), but I would still say learn with iron sights if at all possible

-keith in mtn. view
12-08-2005, 4:44 PM
They better learn to use 'em when they're young and still can! My vision sucks since I was a kid with something like 20/500 vision (nearsighted since I was eight), and now at 47 I have to wear damn bifocals - and my club shoots iron-sights/200yds. only... Seriously I tried a scope'd rifle once but with different panes of glass moving this way and that it was too much trouble. It's hard enough with a good eye-relief spotting scope.
THANKS Johnny_22, I should get one of those Merrit things!! OTOH I shot a 388-3X at the last practice-match on Saturday (at Metcalf with the Garand), which was an improvement over the Swiss K-31.

chickenfried
12-08-2005, 5:43 PM
I don't know. I'm a big believer in shoot what you like, what's the most fun. So I guess I'd let the kid decide. If they like the scope shoot with the scope, if they like the irons shoot the irons.

dwtt
12-08-2005, 7:46 PM
Learning to shoot with iron sights teaches good sight picture and sight alignment. This helps the shooter learn the relationship between where the rifle's barrel is pointed and where the bullet will hit. At least it should.

NwG
12-08-2005, 9:33 PM
I am all for iron before glass.. I am a whore for a scoped rifle, but I wouldn't be half the shooter I am without first mastering iron (and I am no master, so i still pratice as much as possable with the iron.!) . I can't stress this more with pistols.. personaly I HATE lasers.. Lights are ok but lasers are stupid IMO.. You must master your iron in all conditions before thinking of such systems..

Iron will always be there.. If you manage to break you iron then you have a much more serious problem.. NEVER trust your life to something with battries..IMO...

artherd
12-09-2005, 2:56 AM
Iron will always be there.. If you manage to break you iron then you have a much more serious problem.. NEVER trust your life to something with battries..IMO...

Irons won't be there any more than an ACOG will. Iron sights can snap off too.

The ACOG has no batteries, is day/night illuminated, and provides a 4x optic that's probally more solid than the rifle underneath it. In IRAQ, one stoped a 7.62x39 round from entering a soldier's face.

NwG
12-09-2005, 4:15 AM
Artherd, you are a great man and I have much respect for you (And you DOJ letter, your house, that tie..ect :) ) But don't get me wrong here.. I love optics.. I am a whore for a scoped rifle.. I have a special place in my heart for the ACOG.. Great sight in low-light situations (tho it can be a little bright in no light situations)

"I honestly regard them like I do hand-cranks for starting cars. Obsoleate.

An ACOG is faster, equally reliable, works at night, and is FAR FAR FAR more accurate than irons ever will be (at least in my paws.)"

I have to disagree with at least some of this... Tho I do note this is your opinion and I respect that.

A few problems I have noticed with the ACOG that I never had with iron.. The front glass can be obscured by foul weather and dirt/mud.. This is not so much a problem with the 1x model but much more on the 4x with the fine crosshairs. I had the glass fog on me after a long run after a yote in the cold on day.. not a real problem.. I have a Marine buddy whos glass got rather badly pitted after a bad desert sand-blasting. (IMO his stupid mistake for treating his wepon like that) And mine fell off once.. Now that was my stupid fault, and the same thing could of happpened with my carry handle. IMO when I am useing a rifle from 0-600 yards such as an AR I find the 4x mag to be a problem. I was much more accurate with the iron.

But irons on a rifle are by no means obsoleate. 99% of combat wepons with optics have some sort of back-up iron on them. And for good reason.. When SHTF it's just not worth it not to have them..

But thats not what this threat is about.. Is it good to learn to use iron before bolt-ons? By all means YES.. Just look at the poll results. Everyone who I have helped teach to shoot starts with the iron.

And as stated before, my biggest gripe is with handguns and lasers.. Those who do wish to take the time and learn to use there sights will regret it when the time comes...

Happy shooting Nate D

PanzerAce
12-09-2005, 1:11 PM
I dont consider any one whoe cant drive stick a driver :P

Course, I did learn on a stick, and my first car was my dad's '97 A4 2.8 quattro stick, so I might be a wee bit biased.

HEUER
12-09-2005, 2:35 PM
I dont consider any one whoe cant drive stick a driver :P

Course, I did learn on a stick, and my first car was my dad's '97 A4 2.8 quattro stick, so I might be a wee bit biased.

Not to get off topic. While at college prep I worked at a gas station. In college I worked in a transmission shop. Depends what your driving. Growing up the in city rear wheel drive automatic 4 wheel drive trucks with part time xfer cases worked just fine. Can you say Divisidero first rain of the year?

-keith in mtn. view
12-09-2005, 4:40 PM
Definitely prefer a auto in a F150 to haul my KTM around, and for afterwards if I biff hard and my leg is tweaked it's easier to drive home from Auburn or wherever. My first car was a '60 Karmann-Ghia bondo-bandit rustbucket - they didn't even offer an auto in those early VW's. ;) I have NM sights on my M1 Garand.

BigAL
12-09-2005, 5:18 PM
I learned on irons and suggest others do the same. That said, optics are getting to the point where I feel they are superior to irons as primary sights. Battery technology /tritium /fiberoptics, etc have taken sights a long way. Back up fixed sights are still a good idea for serious use guns.