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View Full Version : AB962 strikes. As of Jan. 2011 CTD says NO AMMO to CA.


Lone_Gunman
12-22-2009, 11:05 AM
Just got the latest Cheaper than Dirt catalog. I know they suck in terms of not supporting us in CA so I shouldn't be suprised. There it is at the bottom of the first page of the ammo section. As of Jan 2011 they will no longer sell ammo to CA. I'm pretty damn sure announcing this Dec. of 09 is an attempt to start a panic buying spree with thier CA customers. CTD sucks, but we knew that.

Oshiat
12-22-2009, 11:55 AM
I honestly don't know why anyone does buisness with CTD anymore. I toss their catalogs without even looking.

NovaTodd
12-22-2009, 12:40 PM
I honestly don't know why anyone does buisness with CTD anymore. I toss their catalogs without even looking.

Bingo.
Order from some who supports us. Copes dist., Cabellas, ect

Crazed_SS
12-22-2009, 12:53 PM
They have a good price on non-magnetic, brass-cased, Fiochi 7.62x39

I expect more retailers to follow suit with the "no ammo to CA" thing. Even though the law is only restricting handgun ammo, I think a lot of business arent gonna want to deal with CA at all. Kinda like the FFLs who wont ship here because they're too lazy to do the CFLC thing..

Mitch
12-22-2009, 12:56 PM
I honestly don't know why anyone does buisness with CTD anymore. I toss their catalogs without even looking.

I'm really surprised anyone at Calguns has anything to do with them anymore. And yet, every couple of weeks there's a thread about them.

Nate74
12-22-2009, 4:14 PM
I'm really surprised anyone at Calguns has anything to do with them anymore. And yet, every couple of weeks there's a thread about them.

Agreed. My bird won't even crap on their catalog anymore...

JJE
12-22-2009, 4:22 PM
I don't remember the last time I got one of their catalogs, but if I get one again, I'm going to call them and ask them to take me off their mailing list since I can't buy their ammo.

chris
12-22-2009, 5:09 PM
I don't remember the last time I got one of their catalogs, but if I get one again, I'm going to call them and ask them to take me off their mailing list since I can't buy their ammo.

i don't get their crappy catalog anymore. and amen to that.

thedrickel
12-22-2009, 5:15 PM
I got their catalog, but didn't notice that bit about the ammo . . . since the catalog went straight into the recycling.

HowardW56
12-22-2009, 5:16 PM
I haven't bought anything from CTD in years.....

NiteQwill
12-22-2009, 5:27 PM
So they're not going to honor C&R COE holders, I'm guessing...

AndrewMendez
12-22-2009, 5:46 PM
I heard they where going to change there name to just www.cheapdirtbags.com

ke6guj
12-22-2009, 5:52 PM
So they're not going to honor C&R COE holders, I'm guessing...all this stuff is more than a year in the future. I assume that CADOJ will set up supporting regulations that explain what is and isn't handgun ammo, and what is and isn't covered by the new law. Once that happens, then perhaps some of the vendors that have reacted prematurely will take a more reasonable approach. Remember, many people still think that the ban goes into effect Jan 1, 2010 and that you can only buy 50-rounds a month, or something like that.

zum
12-22-2009, 6:48 PM
all this stuff is more than a year in the future. I assume that CADOJ will set up supporting regulations that explain what is and isn't handgun ammo, and what is and isn't covered by the new law. Once that happens, then perhaps some of the vendors that have reacted prematurely will take a more reasonable approach. Remember, many people still think that the ban goes into effect Jan 1, 2010 and that you can only buy 50-rounds a month, or something like that.

can you point me to a link that does explain this law in more detail?

cause im one of the ones that thinks it goes into effect in 2010 and i can only buy 50 rounds a month :o:(

troysland
12-22-2009, 6:55 PM
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090904_amended_sen_v96.html

AB 962, as amended, De Leon. Ammunition.
The bill would also provide that no
retail seller of ammunition handgun
ammunition vendor, as defined, shall sell, offer for sale, or
display for sale, any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that
ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser without the assistance of
the retailer vendor or employee
thereof.
Existing law generally regulates what information is required to
be obtained in connection with the transfer of ammunition.
This bill would, subject to exceptions, commencing February 1, 2011 , require
certain handgun ammunition vendors to obtain a thumb print and other information
from ammunition purchasers, as specified. A violation of these
provisions would be a misdemeanor.
This bill would provide that a person enjoined from engaging in
activity associated with a criminal street gang, as specified, would
be prohibited from having under his or her possession, custody, or
control, any ammunition. Violation of these provisions would be a
misdemeanor.
The bill would prohibit supplying or delivering, as specified,
handgun ammunition to prohibited persons, as described, by persons or
others who know, or by using reasonable care should know, that the
recipient is a person prohibited from possessing ammunition or a
minor prohibited from possessing ammunition, as specified. Violation
of these provisions is a misdemeanor with specified penalties.
The bill would provide, subject to exceptions, that commencing
February 1, 2011 , the
delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only
occur in a face-to-face transaction, with the deliverer or transferor
being provided bona fide evidence of identity of the purchaser or
other transferee. A violation of these provisions would be a
misdemeanor.



I wonder how incorporation will play into this?

Librarian
12-22-2009, 7:04 PM
can you point me to a link that does explain this law in more detail?

cause im one of the ones that thinks it goes into effect in 2010 and i can only buy 50 rounds a month :o:(

Try this part (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/2009_-_AB_962_De_Leon%2C_Ammunition) of the Calguns Foundation Wiki.

bodger
12-22-2009, 7:09 PM
all this stuff is more than a year in the future. I assume that CADOJ will set up supporting regulations that explain what is and isn't handgun ammo, and what is and isn't covered by the new law. Once that happens, then perhaps some of the vendors that have reacted prematurely will take a more reasonable approach. Remember, many people still think that the ban goes into effect Jan 1, 2010 and that you can only buy 50-rounds a month, or something like that.

DeLeon must love that kind of FUD.

bombadillo
12-22-2009, 8:57 PM
I do give them the fact that they had a specialty cartridge I was looking for for hands down the cheapest price, but still, the lack of integrity there bugs me.

Mitch
12-23-2009, 6:14 AM
I do give them the fact that they had a specialty cartridge I was looking for for hands down the cheapest price, but still, the lack of integrity there bugs me.

The longer I live the more it seems to me that cheapest prices and professional integrity are usually mutually exclusive.

bombadillo
12-23-2009, 7:25 AM
Amen!, I get that more and more as time has gone on.

paul0660
12-23-2009, 7:31 AM
I heard they where going to change there name to just www.cheapdirtbags.com

Andrew, one of the places that link points to is CTD!!!!

Kyle1886
12-23-2009, 8:10 AM
I'm afraid it is just the prelude of things to come. The new Dick's Sporting Goods in Carlsbad/Oceanside are will not carry guns/ammo, and the rumor of Walmart doing the same. I suspect in the next couple of months, mail/Internet will be informing of "no sale of ammo" to CA.

p7m8jg
12-23-2009, 8:15 AM
Agreed. My bird won't even crap on their catalog anymore...

Pretty smart bird!

:rofl2:

383green
12-23-2009, 8:47 AM
On a related note, I'd like to share my recent experience with Sportsman's Guide (which is just as bad as CTD, and I'm still not convinced that they're different companies :p).

I got one of their printed catalogs in the mail, and noticed that they had both unnecessary restrictions (such as .50BMG ammo and the S&W 5.45x39 upper that they would not ship to CA), and unrestricted items that would be illegal here (.308 ammo in a metal non-disintegrating belt that they would ship to CA, and MG42 metal belts with no restrictions at all). I didn't expect it to do any good, but I figured I'd at least take a shot at getting them to change their restrictions before I tossed their pretty catalog in the trash.

I wrote to them:

Hi! I'd like to let you know about some shipping restriction mis-classifications in your catalog number 64987. There are unrestricted items which are illegal to ship to CA, as well as restricted items which can be legally sent here. Thus, you are not only missing some sales opportunities here, but also placing yourselves and your customers at legal risk. I can only comment on CA state law, not on any local laws.

1) page 5, LX9M-165409, 250 rds. .308 linked ammo: Not marked as restricted in CA, but the metal non-disintegrating belt would violate CA's large-capacity magazine ban (CA Penal Code 12020(a)(2) & 12020(c)(25)). Note that disintegrating links are not restricted unless they are linked and assembled with more than ten rounds of ammunition, but cloth and metal belts which hold more than ten rounds are restricted here.

2) page 12, LX9M-161094, .50BMG FMJ ammo: This item is marked as not shippable to CA, but I'm not aware of any reason that it would be restricted here. .50BMG firearms are restricted here, but their ammo is not restricted under state law. From the item's description, it doesn't appear to be of a restricted type (such as incendiary or tracer). Also, you list other .50BMG ammo as being shippable to CA, such as item number E950E-163360.

3) page 37, LX9M-157491, 4 each MG42 ammo belts: There are no restrictions listed for this item, but it violates CA's large-capacity magazine ban (see #1, above).

4) page 67, LX9M-149708, .50BMG FMJ ammo: Listed as not shippable to CA, but I am not aware of any statewide restrictions on this type of ammo (see #2, above).

5) page 67, LX9M-146146, .50BMG linked ammo: Listed as not shippable to CA. This is correct as long as more than ten rounds of this ammo are linked together, but I believe this ammo would be legal to ship to CA under state law if it was either completely unlinked or separated into sections of no more than ten rounds & links each. The loose links and ammo could be shipped here, to the best of my knowledge.

6) page 68, LX9M-142208, S&W 5.45x39mm AR upper: Marked as not shippable to CA, but this item would not be restricted here unless it includes a magazine which holds more than ten rounds (no magazine is listed in the description). There is no restriction on components such as AR upper receiver assemblies under CA state law, and they can be legally used here in the assembly of new weapons. CA's assault weapon laws prohibit complete AR-15-style guns which are either listed by make and model, or have certain restricted features. While the CA Penal Code lists all AR-15 "series" rifles, the 2001 court case Harrott v. County of Kings determined that the "series" language is not valid, and only specifically-listed makes and models are banned by the prohibited weapon list. In recent years, well over a hundred thousand AR-15-style receivers with makes and models not listed in CA's assault weapon law have been legally sold here in CA, and then assembled into weapons which do not include the restricted feature combinations. This is entirely legal.



I hope that this information is helpful. I understand that it is difficult to follow various state laws, particularly for a state with as many laws as California. I would be happy to provide contact information for one or more attorneys who specialize in CA firearms law if you would like.


They replied:

Dear Mark,
Thank you for your email.
1) You are correct and we are updating our state restrictions to stop item LX9M-165409 from going to CA.
2) This is a company restriction that we are blanketing on the entire state of California. Our company classifies all .50 caliber equivalent and larger ammunition to be armor piercing and we restrict it as such for the state.
3) These are also falling under the high capacity ban restrictions we are adding for linked ammunition and ammunition links and belts.
4) & 5) These are falling under the company restriction of .50 cal to CA and LX9M-146146 under high capacity also.
6) Because of all the individual and assault rifle restrictions in the state our company has made a blanket gun accessory restriction for the state.

Thank you for your help on the high capacity information, and sorry about all the other company restriction we have in place about shipping other items to CA.
If you have any questions, please contact us.

Thanks for shopping the Guide!
Chris Wilson
Customer Service Products


I responded:

Thank you for your reply. Please be aware that because of your company's policies of not shipping entirely legal items such as .50BMG ammunition or that 5.45x39mm upper receiver assembly to CA, I will not do business with your company. You may feel free to stop sending me your printed catalogs until and unless you change your policies.

AggregatVier
12-24-2009, 7:03 PM
CTD already finds reasons not to ship ammo to most of California anyway. They're no big loss. I'm concerned about losing MidwayUSA or Cabelas.

peepshowal
12-24-2009, 7:29 PM
After a couple of years of not buying anything from them they stopped sending me their catalog. I haven't missed it.

dfletcher
12-24-2009, 8:14 PM
Notice that CTD doesn't even mention in their response that having a C & R FFL/COE exempts the holder from AB 962 restrictions. If they gave a damn at all, they could make the effort and still sell to some CA residents.

I dumped Sportmans after they refused to send an M1 carbine sight because it's a part for an AW - called and wrote and told them why. They still send a flyer, it goes straight into the trash.

BTW, I expect Midway to take the same route. They stopped selling ammo/reloading to SF residents.

I'm holding out hope for Grafs though.

gravedigger
12-24-2009, 9:09 PM
I'm so glad I'm moving out of this cesspool of Socialism!

Roadrunner
12-24-2009, 9:10 PM
I understand everyones frustration with ab962, and I understand CTD's notice that they will no longer ship to California once the mailorder ban is active. That will not piss me off half as much as one of these companies signing a contract with California government entities for their ammunition. So, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude toward this and see how many out of state companies further complicate our problem by supplying the oppressors with the means to tighten their grip on our freedoms.

6172crew
12-24-2009, 9:14 PM
I honestly don't know why anyone does buisness with CTD anymore. I toss their catalogs without even looking.

LOL 1st reply:D, I havent bought anything from them since 2002 when my son wanted a airsoft type bb gun.

6172crew
12-24-2009, 9:18 PM
They have a good price on non-magnetic, brass-cased, Fiochi 7.62x39

I expect more retailers to follow suit with the "no ammo to CA" thing. Even though the law is only restricting handgun ammo, I think a lot of business arent gonna want to deal with CA at all. Kinda like the FFLs who wont ship here because they're too lazy to do the CFLC thing..

You can send them your $$ but I wont, and that list is short.

I still wont send Fulton anything, its a Semper Fi thing.:cool:

ldivinag
12-25-2009, 1:08 AM
but but but, they have such good pixs of MOLLE gear...


lol...

Creeping Incrementalism
01-02-2010, 2:46 PM
This is just what I expected to happen--companies do not want to bother with CA and will stop selling all ammo. Who needs the government to ban all guns and ammo when they only ban some of it and FUD does the rest?

I have not bought anything from Cheaper Than Dirt since I bought an OLL in early 2006 and noticed all the legal "Assault Weapon" products they put on their restricted list.

Every year this gets more problematic, and now I fear it may become overwhelming. I think we need a trusted source, such as the NRA, to provide free legal advice that all catalog companies can access.

HowardW56
01-02-2010, 5:02 PM
I haven't bought anything from Cheaper than dirt in years, the prices aren't that good and there are better vendors out there....

Don't do business with them, then their policies won't matter...

bombadillo
01-02-2010, 5:05 PM
Guess I need to start stocking up on handgun ammo while its still available. Dang it!

bodger
01-02-2010, 6:06 PM
I've been getting UPS deliveries every couple of days. After that becomes illegal, it's going to be reloading and runs to Arizona for me.

CTD not selling here anymore doesn't surprise me.

thmpr
01-02-2010, 7:36 PM
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39672&page=2

Interesting thread on M4 carbine. There is LEO who I totally agree with on what he/she is saying...

turbosbox
01-02-2010, 9:32 PM
Oh, I didn't know so many people were also mad at them. I thought their price hikes in the worst part of the ammo shortage were "usury" :chris: if that's the right term. I ordered from them over a year ago, but have also boycotted them since.

Backinblack1234
01-02-2010, 9:45 PM
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3830/ctdpmag.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/ctdpmag.jpg/) http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/ctdpmag.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img188/ctdpmag.jpg/1/)

Mikeinblack
01-02-2010, 9:48 PM
F- CTD

Ammoman Rocks.

Hunt
01-02-2010, 10:16 PM
time to open an ammo store in Quartzite or maybe a few miles offshore on a boat out of CA jurisdiction and operate a shuttle boat to the offshore store
DeLeons bill won't accomplish anything other than drive prices up. Watch for Quartzite Ammo and Reloading

chris
01-03-2010, 2:10 PM
DeLeons bill won't accomplish anything other than drive prices up.

that is the goal of this law. to drive prices too high for the common person to afford and reduce the use of firearms for sport and defense. with this law the camels nose is that much further in the tent.

bodger
01-03-2010, 2:44 PM
Eff 'em. They won't ship ammo to me in City of Los Angeles anyway.

bomb_on_bus
01-03-2010, 3:48 PM
Who do you guys know that are online retailers that will still sell to CA after the hammer falls in 2011?

I havent seen anyone post anything as of yet.

Hunt
01-03-2010, 8:09 PM
Who do you guys know that are online retailers that will still sell to CA after the hammer falls in 2011?

I havent seen anyone post anything as of yet.

I think the NRA is challenging this law and may just get tossed out anyway