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KTran211
12-04-2005, 10:53 PM
Does anyone in this forum has a Springfield M25? If so, how is it? Is it a great sniping rifle?

shopkeep
12-04-2005, 11:45 PM
For nearly $5,000 I'd expect sub 1 MOA at 500+ yards. However, if I were to spend over $2,000 I'd just get a Steyr Tactical .308 or a Steyr SSG3000, both of those will be EXTREMELY accurate for less than half the price of an M-25. True the rapid fire is nice on the M-25 but the other advantage of rapid reloads is also available on Steyr long range bolt action rifles.

berg
12-05-2005, 7:29 AM
I don't own one but I shot one a few weeks ago. The owner said it had to go back to Springfield several times due to malfunctions. When I was shooting it the rifle had a few failures to eject because the spent cartridge would hit the scope rail over the ejection port. A Federal match case got stuck in the chamber as well.

Equally puzzling was that when the rifle came back from Springfield after it's last warranty repair the Leupold scope was canted and the cheek pad was chewed up. I would have expected Springfield to not only get it right the first time, but also to take better care of the rifle while in its possession.

Gunner1
12-05-2005, 8:40 AM
I have one of the M25 Whitefeather rifles. I bought it in 2003 figuring it to be my last California legal detachable mag rifle. I am really glad that has not happend yet. I have a Leupold M4 3.5-10x M3 Mil-Dot mounted on it with Badger rings. Very nice setup, So nice in fact that I sold my PSG-1 without even a single remorse. Accuracy is better than I can shoot. My best ever 3 shot 100 yard group .59" with Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. It will put just about any high grade ammo in under moa groups. The gun is finicky though, it must be kept clean, greased and decarbonized or it will let you know it is pissed and needs a bath. Tolerances are very tight.
Would I buy another? No I am lucky enough to have 6.5 M14 type rifles and the M25 is not my favorite. (SOCOM is today:D ) If a person is truly set on this configuration I am sure you could have a similar rifle built by Smith Enterprise or Fulton Armory and save a few bucks.
So far I have about 5000 rounds through the rifle with no mechanical problems at all. I do not know if this is true for all of the white feather rifles but I have personally inspected four of them. All had USGI bolts and op rods(TRW) while other M1a rifles during this period had an increase amount of Springfield Inc. cast parts being used.
I paid $4400.00 out the door without optics from Jones Fort in late 2003 and have no plans of ever selling it, Man if my wife sees this I am dead meat:p

Gunner

shopkeep
12-05-2005, 10:39 AM
Yeah I hear you Gunner1... my wife wants to learn how to shoot and I'm afraid she'll get into it and start finding out just how expensive some firearms are.

HEUER
12-05-2005, 10:44 AM
Many SA inc parts from 2001-2004 are not cast, but milled from bar stock. :)

To those with B series SA INC Bolts:

My standard M1A bolt has small stamped markings that read:

7790186, SA, B00038

Research tells me that this bolt is machined.

"The letter B prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt was machined from bar stock"

Factory head spacing is 1.632 and has about 500 rounds of Federal American Eagle through it with zero problems.

I e-mailed Ted Brown and he told me:
Your bolt is machined from solid bar stock steel. It is probably an OK bolt. SA recalled the cast bolts they made after several broke, but I have not heard of any of the B series bolts being recalled. You may want to give Springfield a call to confirm this.

I e-mailed SA INC this evening and I am waiting to hear confirmation.

My research shows that the “cast” Springfield Armory Inc bolts were recalled after several cracked. :

Springfield Armory, Inc. issued a recall of M1A bolts in 1987. The recall applies to M1A bolts marked as follows: 1) no numerical or alphabetical characteristics on either the top or back of the bolt (completely unmarked) 2) any bolt with any numerical or alphabetical markings at all on the back of the bolt 3) any bolt with the top marked 7790185 and with SA RRR centered below that number 4) any bolt with the top marked 790185 and with SA centered below that number. If the reader has such a bolt, contact the Customer Service Department at Springfield Armory, Inc. politely discuss your situation with the Customer Service Representative. Springfield Armory, Inc. still honors this recall if applicable to the part concerned.

My "loaded standard" bolt marking’s are larger and appear to be engraved:

PART #, SA, HEAT TREATMENT LOT

7790186, SA, F00127

Bolt - Springfield Armory, Inc. bolts are typically marked 7790186-SA on the first line and B00048 or F00059 or a similar number on the second line. They may have markings such as D and M3 on the rear end and A9 or B1 on the bottom surface. The letter B prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt was machined from bar stock. The letter F prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt is forged. See the section on the 1987 M1A bolt recall for additional markings. M1A bolts are not made by metal injection molding. Around receiver serial number 165XXX, Springfield Armory, Inc. factory installed bolts have letters and numerals with a taller and thinner font than the style found on USGI M14 bolts.

The “machined” bolts seem to pre-date the forged SA INC bolts that appear at the start of 2004. So there seems to be four types of bolts that SA INC used.

GI bolts
Cast bolts SA INC (probably some are still floating around out there)
Machined bolts SA INC
Forged SA INC bolts (past couple of years)

Gunner1
12-05-2005, 12:20 PM
Heuer,

Thanks for taking the time to post this info, It is helpful for me and many others. My father had one of the recalled M1a rifles in the shop back in 1988. When the rifle came back it had an H&R Bolt installed. At the time dad had been shooting rifle matches with it for a year or so (For him about 12k rounds annually) No problems at the time. Dad still has that rifle and I believe it is on its six or seventh barrel since then.
Some people do bad mouth Springfield inc. but as an avid shooter,LEO and former gunshop owner I have nothing but good to say about them and their service. I sure wish I could find a private party willing to sell me their P9. I know it is an Italian copy of the cz but I sold mine years ago and have regretted it ever since.

Gunner

HEUER
12-05-2005, 12:40 PM
SA INC gets a bad rap, but I think that those days are over. It is reflected in it's pricing. They can no longer afford/secure GI parts, so they had no choice but to produce forged bolts raising prices.

I read posts about individuals having difficulty cycling there M14/M1A's. When I suggest they read the manual and learn to field strip the rifle first, I always get a response that it is a good idea. :)

The M14/M1A is a great rifle. California has few choices in semi-autumatic rifles, and I am noticing many first time rifle owners selecting the M14 rifle. It is a lot of rifle for first time buyers, so when they shoot the rifle without reading the field manual and without proper matenence they experience jams and blame it on the gear and not on the operator.

The M25 is a wonderful rifle, and it was my understanding that they are still hand built. I thought about it, but I have my graduate degree loan to pay off. :D

PanzerAce
12-05-2005, 2:09 PM
I was lucky enough to shoot a guys M25, but I have discovered that my passion (for now) lie in bolt actions. on the other hand, if you are looking to get a good semi auto for long ranges, go for it.

RRangel
12-05-2005, 8:40 PM
If you just want a fun gun buy a standard or loaded M1A and learn how to shoot. Re-build it and add a scope later.

HEUER
12-05-2005, 8:45 PM
If you just want a fun gun buy a standard or loaded M1A and learn how to shoot. Re-build it and add a scope later.

Good advice. Starting with the M25 White Feather is like taking drivers ed in a Aston DB9.

Learn to shoot the M14 type rifle with iron sights first, then move into a scope.

artherd
12-05-2005, 10:25 PM
Good advice. Starting with the M25 White Feather is like taking drivers ed in a Aston DB9.

Learn to shoot the M14 type rifle with iron sights first, then move into a scope.

I basically agree, though frankly don't think much of iron sights on a rifle.

However I do know a guy who learned to ride on a Ducati 916 :) If you have the means, AND know it'll be what you want anyway, then jump on it.

However, $5k is Knights SR-25 money. I'd get one of those instead (if it weren't an AW.) but that's just me.

HEUER
12-05-2005, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=artherd]I basically agree, though frankly don't think much of iron sights on a rifle.

Are you serious? You don't think much of iron sights on a rifle? Why?

The M1 Garand has Iron Sights and it did pretty well in WWII.

Learning how to shoot a rifle with iron sights is a perfectly acceptable method of instruction. Maybe I am old school.

Gunner1
12-06-2005, 8:30 AM
maybe it is just me but I think a person should really learn to shoot with open sights. I think it makes it easier to understand bullet drop, hold over etc. I know that when pig hunting locally I really like using my open sighted socom for my wooded hunting area. A scope would be useless.

Gunner

artherd
12-06-2005, 9:53 AM
[QUOTE=artherd]I basically agree, though frankly don't think much of iron sights on a rifle.

Are you serious? You don't think much of iron sights on a rifle? Why?

Variety of reasons. Focal plane being chief amoungst them. Your target is 200m out and you're supposed to focus on a sight .7m away? Stupid. For a while it was all we had though.

The M1 Garand has Iron Sights and it did pretty well in WWII.

Learning how to shoot a rifle with iron sights is a perfectly acceptable method of instruction. Maybe I am old school.

It's fine and will teach you the basics of trigger and breathing control just fine. I just think a modern Red-dot or telescopic optic offers so many advantages over Irons, that they might as well be obsoleate.

The bow and arrow used to be all we need to do pretty well in war too. But ask a marine if he'll trade his M4 with TA-31RCO in for a garand.

artherd
12-06-2005, 9:53 AM
maybe it is just me but I think a person should really learn to shoot with open sights. I think it makes it easier to understand bullet drop, hold over etc. I know that when pig hunting locally I really like using my open sighted socom for my wooded hunting area. A scope would be useless.

Gunner
Maybe it's just my eyes but I don't shoot very well with irons.
PS: You really need to try out an ACOG, anything 5meters to 400meters is on target like *that*.

HEUER
12-06-2005, 10:00 AM
Most likely your eyes. My best friend is (was) a Captain in the United States Marine Corp (ret). Marines shoot out to 500 meters using a stanadard service rifle. At least they did when he was in the service.

My poll :

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=25242