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sfwdiy
12-21-2009, 10:18 PM
An interesting situation has developed for me in the last several months and I wanted to post it here for feedback.

I'm originally from Colorado, and my mother still lives there. Her husband died several months ago and I've been back and forth between there and Los Angeles a few times recently.

It's become apparent that I'm going to end up spending a fair amount of time in Colorado helping mom get things in order, clean and fix up the house to eventually sell it, etc.

My question is this: If I'm splitting my time between CA and CO like this, can I get a CO ID card? If so, would it be legal to purchase a firearm in CO while residing there, and bring it back to CA when I return?

And the big one, would I be able to obtain a CO CCW as a part-time resident of that state, since I would have a CO ID?

What do you think?

--B

NSR500
12-21-2009, 10:22 PM
I'd say that you can do those things if you're truly residing in Colorado on a PT basis.
I'd be sure to cover all my bases and at least put your name on the lease, utilities, etc... Remember you need to be a resident in Colorado and not just a house guest.

GearHead
12-21-2009, 10:52 PM
An interesting situation has developed for me in the last several months and I wanted to post it here for feedback.

I'm originally from Colorado, and my mother still lives there. Her husband died several months ago and I've been back and forth between there and Los Angeles a few times recently.

It's become apparent that I'm going to end up spending a fair amount of time in Colorado helping mom get things in order, clean and fix up the house to eventually sell it, etc.

My question is this: If I'm splitting my time between CA and CO like this, can I get a CO ID card? If so, would it be legal to purchase a firearm in CO while residing there, and bring it back to CA when I return?

And the big one, would I be able to obtain a CO CCW as a part-time resident of that state, since I would have a CO ID?

What do you think?

--B

In order to get a Colorado CCW, you need to be a resident of the state in the normal sense; i.e. if you own property/reside in another state for some amount of time, CO is the state you file are registered vote in, have a DL in, have a truck registered in, etc.

If you are a CO resident, you can do PPTs without a dealer. You walk up, give somebody cash and walk home. Provided you are not a prohibited person, that is.

How do I know this? I am a CO resident and CCW holder :P

GearHead
12-21-2009, 10:54 PM
http://www.denvergov.org/MotorVehicle/TitlesandRegistrations/TitlesandRegistrations4/tabid/391083/Default.aspx

Looks like you need to stay here for 3 months, get a job or start a business.

hoffmang
12-21-2009, 11:07 PM
More than a couple of consecutive weeks would generally qualify you as a Colorado Resident under Federal firearms law.

-Gene

sfwdiy
12-25-2009, 8:30 PM
More than a couple of consecutive weeks would generally qualify you as a Colorado Resident under Federal firearms law.

-Gene

Hmmm.... Sounds like you're saying something without actually saying something.

--B

hoffmang
12-25-2009, 9:02 PM
Hmmm.... Sounds like you're saying something without actually saying something.

--B

I'm referring to this:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#state-purchase

Residency is more than a hotel room for a week, but not necessarily a whole lot more.

-Gene

sfwdiy
12-26-2009, 1:01 AM
I'm referring to this:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#state-purchase

Residency is more than a hotel room for a week, but not necessarily a whole lot more.

-Gene

Interesting. Thanks for the link!

--B

edrrt
12-26-2009, 9:25 AM
I would be VERY careful with this. CO requires you change your license to CO within 30 days of arrival and not doing so can result in big fines and jail time. The exception is students and military. However if you are stopped it would be very difficult for an officer to determine that you were not just visiting unless you told them.

ID cards are issued to persons who do not have a DL. Having an ID and claming residency there while having an out of state license could open you up to fines and jail time for not changing you license over. Now enters the foggy realm dual residency. There is very little information about this on the state level and my guess is it would be up to a judge on a case by case basis. If a lawyer can convince the judge that you indeed satisfy the residency requirements for two states simultaneously and can not be in compliance with both states DL mandates at the same time they may not be able to prosecute you for not having the DL changed. In addition on the federal level you would be OK purchasing firearms in both states. However my understanding is that at the state level you would not because CA has its own law that prohibits its residents from purchasing firearms out of state.

Therefore if you are still claiming to be a CA resident you may not purchase firearms in CO even if you also claim to be a CO resident.

I have looked into this and that is my understanding. However this is very easy to get around. Simply play by the book. Go to the DMV, surrender your CA DL and get your CO DL, sign a lease for a room in your mom's house. You are now a CO resident. Buy away. You can even bring them back to CA when you "visit." When you are done and meet CA residency criteria simply change your DL back and submit the DOJ form for personal importation of any handguns you may now have as a result of your move.

It is a little extra paperwork but as I understand things it is the only way to be unquestionably legal. Otherwise I think CA could charge you for buying a gun while out of state while considered a CA resident.

Am I wrong here?

I would really like to hear others in put on this.

hoffmang
12-26-2009, 11:00 AM
Am I wrong here?

I would really like to hear others in put on this.

You are not wrong, but I will say that the entity that is deciding whether you have residence is the Federal government and not either of the States. The ATF is not going to be too much of a stickler here because the 2A and the 14A apply (citizenship) to them already. Your's is the absolute safest way, but I think if you generally satisfy the ATF and have the CO ID card, you're fine.

Sometime soon I expect the residency requirement to fail. See: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/03/gun-lobby-files-new-suit-in-dc-over-federal-restrictions.html

-Gene

G17GUY
12-26-2009, 11:14 AM
You are not wrong, but I will say that the entity that is deciding whether you have residence is the Federal government and not either of the States. The ATF is not going to be too much of a stickler here because the 2A and the 14A apply (citizenship) to them already. Your's is the absolute safest way, but I think if you generally satisfy the ATF and have the CO ID card, you're fine.

Sometime soon I expect the residency requirement to fail. See: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/03/gun-lobby-files-new-suit-in-dc-over-federal-restrictions.html

-Gene

woah, thats awsome. First time I have heard of this case. Is it pending chicago?

hoffmang
12-26-2009, 2:25 PM
woah, thats awsome. First time I have heard of this case. Is it pending chicago?

It has a tortured procedural history. It is filed in DC District Court now: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Hodgkins_v._Holder

One interesting thing from that is that on page 126 of this (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf) you can see that an out of state college attendee can be a resident of both states.

-Gene

wildhawker
12-26-2009, 2:43 PM
One of my favorite not-often-mentioned cases.

aermotor
02-22-2010, 1:22 AM
Great thread. This is exactly what I was looking for as I am in a similar boat with the OP (Born in Denver, moved and live in LA now. Parents have a house in CO and I travel quite a bit, would like to make it a dual residency, get CCW, buy guns to have in both states, etc).

Good, different points being made as well. I'll have to look into it further. Thanks everyone.

GearHead: What county do you live in?

dantodd
02-22-2010, 1:30 AM
What/when is next action on this suit?

wildhawker
02-22-2010, 1:46 AM
What/when is next action on this suit?

It was dismissed by Judge Robertson on January 5, 2010 (https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2009cv0587-10) due to lack of standing.

dantodd
02-22-2010, 1:52 AM
It was dismissed by Judge Robertson on January 5, 2010 (https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2009cv0587-10) due to lack of standing.

So off to the Circuit?

Gray Peterson
02-22-2010, 4:35 AM
So off to the Circuit?

You mean the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit?

I would presume so. I'm willing to bet Alan's a little busy prepping for the most important civil rights case in nearly 140 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago) and will file an appeal as soon as the oral arguments are done. I believe it's 90 days to file an appeal to the CoA.

That's the only unfortunate thing about him: He is only one guy, though he has a lot of "little helpers", and post McDonald, he is going to have a lot more of them.

GearHead
02-22-2010, 9:15 AM
Great thread. This is exactly what I was looking for as I am in a similar boat with the OP (Born in Denver, moved and live in LA now. Parents have a house in CO and I travel quite a bit, would like to make it a dual residency, get CCW, buy guns to have in both states, etc).

Good, different points being made as well. I'll have to look into it further. Thanks everyone.

GearHead: What county do you live in?

Jefferson.

dantodd
02-22-2010, 9:51 AM
You mean the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit?

I would presume so. I'm willing to bet Alan's a little busy prepping for the most important civil rights case in nearly 140 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago) and will file an appeal as soon as the oral arguments are done. I believe it's 90 days to file an appeal to the CoA.

That's the only unfortunate thing about him: He is only one guy, though he has a lot of "little helpers", and post McDonald, he is going to have a lot more of them.

yes, I meant the D.C. Circuit Court, as opposed to what other circuit I can't imagine.

Pretty familiar with McDonald, thanks.