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Desert Cowboy
12-21-2009, 2:46 PM
Ok this one could be a little difficult.
An acquaintance of mine lost his father earlier this year, February. The Father has an AW registered, with paperwork but he was the only one on the registration. Now the son( under pressure from mom) wants to surrender the gun but was hoping he could surrender just the lower and keep the upper for a legal build.
Also could he surrender the lower in one of those gun by backs and get maybe $200.00 for the AW turnin.
I don't know how to advise him as I am not a lawyer and not familiar with this situation.

thanks for all your help.

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 2:49 PM
Take every part off that lower and only turn in the stripped part. Try it at a buyback but be careful, transport of an AW is a crime. There is no paperwork at the buyback though, you may be better off having a trail and a receipt showing it was surrendered for destruction.

Oh yeah, have a lawyer do it.

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 2:50 PM
Best part is he only needs an OLL and a bullet button to have the rifle working again. Less than $100 !

ke6guj
12-21-2009, 2:54 PM
this is what the PC has to say about it,

12285(b)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 1990, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state. A person who lawfully possessed a firearm that was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of the declaration issued pursuant to subdivision (f) of Section 12276.5.

Yes, he can, and should, strip down the firearm to just its receiver. The rest of the parts can be kept for later use. Since it appears that he is outside the 90-day window, he may be best served using a lawyer to facilitate the surrender of the lower to LE. Don't think it would be worth the hassle to try to surrender the lower at a buy-back, even with a lawyer. And I could see them not considering a stripped lower an AW for terms of the buy-back.

GTKrockeTT
12-21-2009, 2:57 PM
http://anonymousradioshow.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/sledgehammer.jpg

Swatter911
12-21-2009, 3:00 PM
Nevermind.

bwiese
12-21-2009, 3:04 PM
KE6GUJ is correct as usual.

Ignore Swatter911's comments.

Firstly, the gun should IMMEDIATELY be disassembled anyway to raise threshold.

Destruction does not eliminate any prospective past crime of illegal possession; when an attorney arranges surrender to LE agency that can "clear the books".

Swatter911
12-21-2009, 3:09 PM
Do what bweise/ke6guj says. :D

HowardW56
12-21-2009, 3:12 PM
Do what bweise/ke6guj says. :D

DITTO....

And better now than later....

uscbigdawg
12-21-2009, 3:31 PM
How about just sell it to an out of state dealer?

Rich

Desert Cowboy
12-21-2009, 3:32 PM
Thanks Guys I will pass on the information. Can any lawyer do this or is a specialty required? Dumb question but I just don't know.
Also you guys were quick on the replies, like a hunter stalking its prey.

Desert Cowboy
12-21-2009, 3:34 PM
The out of state dealer thing is an idea, I am going to AZ between Christmas and new year, if I can get other details on the rifle, i might be able to get approx pricing.

HowardW56
12-21-2009, 3:45 PM
How about just sell it to an out of state dealer?

Rich

The 90 day deadline remains an issue until it leaves the state. Advertising it would be an invitation to get arrested...

Don't get caught transporting it....

Decoligny
12-21-2009, 3:47 PM
KE6GUJ is correct as usual.

Ignore Swatter911's comments.

Firstly, the gun should IMMEDIATELY be disassembled anyway to raise threshold.

Destruction does not eliminate any prospective past crime of illegal possession; when an attorney arranges surrender to LE agency that can "clear the books".

This is also where the 5th Amendment comes into play.

If he chooses (chose) to destroy the lower, never tell anyone when the lower was actually destroyed. It would then be up to the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this particular set of bandsawn pieces of an "AW" lower were actually destroyed after the 90 day grace period.

Decoligny
12-21-2009, 3:48 PM
How about just sell it to an out of state dealer?

Rich

If there is paperwork involved, and that paperwork shows that the transaction occurred after the 90 grace period, then it could be used for evidence of possession of an AW.

Jicko
12-21-2009, 4:04 PM
Keep everything else BUT the lower receiver.

CHS
12-21-2009, 5:05 PM
Best part is he only needs an OLL and a bullet button to have the rifle working again. Less than $100 !

I want some of that crack you're smoking :)

Lets see... 25$ for the DROS. 25$ for a bullet button.

Who actually stocks $50 lowers? In fact, they would have to be less than that to stay under $100 after tax.

You're really talking more like sub-$200, which is still a good deal. $119 for a lower (JD machine from Riflegear) +25$ bullet button + tax + $25 DROS = $181.60

Swatguy10_15
12-21-2009, 5:09 PM
Id be willing to bet if you contacted an out of state dealer and explained the situation, they would be more than glad to take that lower and work some kinf od credit /trade for a lower you can have.

freonr22
12-21-2009, 5:11 PM
but, how can he ship it out of state? wouldnt that be illegal to transport? or am i missing something? (possible)

five.five-six
12-21-2009, 5:13 PM
REH sells a stripped lower with a bullet button installed for ~$130 shipped

I have one and like it very much... you will also need about $10 in parts that you probably not get off the old reciever. bolt stop / spring / roll pin

front detent will probably go flying when you pull the pin,

I didn't note where you live, but If you are local I would offer th hepl strip/ rebuild... should take under an hour

B Strong
12-21-2009, 5:20 PM
Id be willing to bet if you contacted an out of state dealer and explained the situation, they would be more than glad to take that lower and work some kinf od credit /trade for a lower you can have.

Considering how most out of state sellers of AW's feel about Californians, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when that phone call went down.

If I was an out-of-state FFL and got that call, I'd tell the caller to go make in his hat.

383green
12-21-2009, 5:31 PM
Id be willing to bet if you contacted an out of state dealer and explained the situation, they would be more than glad to take that lower and work some kinf od credit /trade for a lower you can have.

That would require the commission of a felony by transporting the weapon, and another one by offering it for sale, while merely possessing the weapon is "just" a misdemeanor.

Why can't this kind of bad advice just die off, even in a thread where the correct answer has already been given a few posts previously? This happens every single time this topic comes up. :mad:

bwiese and ke6guj have already provided the correct answer: Strip the lower IMMEDIATELY to raise the threshold for prosecution, and then IMMEDIATELY arrange through a lawyer to surrender the stripped lower receiver to law enforcement.

Destroying the lower doesn't erase the previous crime of possession, and one phone call from somebody who knows about the gun and doesn't like its owner could land the owner in a world of hurt. Trying to sell the gun out of state is even worse, because it involves the commission of multiple felonies and it leaves a paper trail which can be used as evidence in prosecution. None of this is worth it over a $181.60 chunk of aluminum.

To everybody who has given bad advice which suggests the commission of felonies, please have the common sense and decency to delete the posts where you gave that bad advice.

redcliff
12-21-2009, 5:45 PM
Perhaps not relevant to this situation due to the time frames that have elapsed, but if the law says "or remove the weapon from this state" does that not imply that the legal heir can transport it out of state within the 90 day window?

GuyW
12-21-2009, 5:45 PM
Why has no one asked why it is a registered AW? Is it named, or does it have features??

.

ke6guj
12-21-2009, 6:29 PM
Perhaps not relevant to this situation due to the time frames that have elapsed, but if the law says "or remove the weapon from this state" does that not imply that the legal heir can transport it out of state within the 90 day window?Yes, they could have legally transported it out of state within the 90-day window (180-days for registered .50BMG rifles) but the OP mentions the death happened in February, and he is asking now what the options are. So, in that case, the 90-day window would have closed.

But an interesting question would be is "when does the 90-day window start?" At the time of death, or when the executor "formally" passes on the RAW to the recipient? When does the heir "obtain title" to it?

jamesob
12-21-2009, 7:46 PM
i would strip it and cut the receiver up myself.

Lyte-
12-21-2009, 8:33 PM
Considering how most out of state sellers of AW's feel about Californians, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when that phone call went down.

If I was an out-of-state FFL and got that call, I'd tell the caller to go make in his hat.

Ship it to my ffl in texas and i'll take good care of it for you :)

dfletcher
12-21-2009, 8:38 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there states, such as New York, where a "preban" (as in before 1994) receiver allows the owner to build up an AR and use otherwise fun stuff such as flash hiders? Wouldn't a pre94 receiver be something they'd want?