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ChrisO
12-21-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm fairly active here on calguns and recently have been browsing the 2A forum quite a bit. I hear a lot of this incorporation of 2A rights. Well I think I was to late in browsing the 2A forums and totally missing it. It seems as if everyone is sure were going to be granted the right to LOC? Whats the current progression on this and what is calguns doing to incorporate this? I searched and couldn't find anything on it, I would appreciate the help as I want to be more active and want to be more of a help in achieving our 2A rights. Wish I could donate a bundle of money to CGF but I am unemployed right now :( .

jdberger
12-21-2009, 11:49 AM
Send $5 to CGF. Every little bit counts.

Here's the deal, Incorporation of 2A won't immediately give us anything. However, it's a great lever to start rolling back lots of the oppresive legislation in this State.

Actually, since Sykes is already in the works, I expect that incorporation will give us "Shall Issue" CCW before it gives us LOC.

But what do I know....

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 11:52 AM
"i searched and couldn't find ANYTHING" ?? That's my favorite one!

Start with the CGF website http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/

and the CGF wiki page http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

Then search for the individual threads about all the pending cases, although the most up to date info is on the CGF sites. There is a lot being done right now, and next year is gonna be huge! Being unemployed doesn't have to stop you, volunteer your time instead of your money!

ChrisO
12-21-2009, 11:55 AM
So were fighting to get 2A rights incorporated but when can we expect or HOPE for this incorporation. Sorry I'm new to this but I would like to keep up on our status and be a little more in the know of this stuff. I just rolled some quarters today so Ill have a little bit to donate ;) .

ChrisO
12-21-2009, 11:56 AM
"i searched and couldn't find ANYTHING" ?? That's my favorite one!

Start with the CGF website http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/

and the CGF wiki page http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

Then search for the individual threads about all the pending cases, although the most up to date info is on the CGF sites. There is a lot being done right now, and next year is gonna be huge! Being unemployed doesn't have to stop you, volunteer your time instead of your money!

Volunteer for what? Sorry I didn't know about that site but thank you.

putput
12-21-2009, 11:58 AM
Two Weeks! Just kidding. The case will be heard and most likely will be over by July 4th 2010.



So were fighting to get 2A rights incorporated but when can we expect or HOPE for this incorporation. Sorry I'm new to this but I would like to keep up on our status and be a little more in the know of this stuff. I just rolled some quarters today so Ill have a little bit to donate ;) .

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 11:58 AM
Contact Brandon (wildhawker) http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/private.php?do=newpm&u=23649
And ask what you can do to help :)

jdberger
12-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Where are you located, Chris? We can find something for you to do.

What kind of stuff do you like doing. What are you good at?

ChrisO
12-21-2009, 12:11 PM
I'm in stockton CA. I like shooting :) haha but being unemployed right now doesn't mean I have that much time. I'm currently going through background with a Sheriff Dept. Also will be volunteering for S.P.D. soon and I'm a full time student. Is there any kind of scheduled events or stuff that I might possibly be able to look at to see if I have the time so I can volunteer? I have to plan quite a bit ahead seems like I'm busier than I was with a job when I don't have one. I would love to help out though, I just have to work a schedule out. I have also been spreading the word like crazy about calguns to all my buddies.

GaryV
12-21-2009, 1:40 PM
So were fighting to get 2A rights incorporated but when can we expect or HOPE for this incorporation.

Oral arguments for McDonald are scheduled for March 2. The decision will probably come out in June.

CAL.BAR
12-21-2009, 2:26 PM
Incorporation essentially only says that the Federal 2nd Amendment applies to the States and their citizens directly. There is NOTHING in 2A that says you get to walk down the street with a gun. NOTHING about AW,s MG's or SBR etc. That is entirely up to the local state to enforce. Incorporation gives us a tool to stop a total ban of handguns and maybe hunting rifles/shotguns. Nothing more.

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 2:36 PM
Incorporation essentially only says that the Federal 2nd Amendment applies to the States and their citizens directly. There is NOTHING in 2A that says you get to walk down the street with a gun. NOTHING about AW,s MG's or SBR etc. That is entirely up to the local state to enforce. Incorporation gives us a tool to stop a total ban of handguns and maybe hunting rifles/shotguns. Nothing more.

That's not really true. Incorporation means that the right to keep and BEAR arms applies to individuals across the nation, and can not be unreasonably restricted by the states. It will give us a lot more than a tool to stop bans. Why do you think all the cases are on hold pending the outcome? Judges know that the result of mcdonald will greatly affect the way they can rule on everything else.

Grakken
12-21-2009, 2:41 PM
Yet people are so sure that McDonald is going to go "our" way. What does it matter anyways since some lib will just try and pull a nordyke and want the case re-heard (until they get their way).

Has anyone thought that the case will go against our best interest? Than what?

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 3:02 PM
People are fairly certain it will go our way for a lot of good reasons.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=251097

Meplat
12-21-2009, 3:55 PM
Yet people are so sure that McDonald is going to go "our" way. What does it matter anyways since some lib will just try and pull a nordyke and want the case re-heard (until they get their way).

Has anyone thought that the case will go against our best interest? Than what?

Read the "Battle Of Jakes"; hint, it's not about young tom turkeys. Go to www.frugalsquirrels.com and click on downloads.:43:

GaryV
12-21-2009, 4:33 PM
Yet people are so sure that McDonald is going to go "our" way. What does it matter anyways since some lib will just try and pull a nordyke and want the case re-heard (until they get their way).

Has anyone thought that the case will go against our best interest? Than what?

There is no en banc review of SCOTUS cases, so they can't "pull a Nordyke". Whatever the court rules, that's it.

There's little to no chance the case could harm us. Incorporation is all but guaranteed. There is a small chance they'll go DP instead of PoI, but that doesn't hurt us at all, it just means the court will have missed a perfect opportunity to overturn what is essentially an outdated defunct decision anyway. While it'd be a shame to see them pass up the chance to correct an historical wrong, it would have no effect whatsoever on gun rights.

The only way the case could harm us at all is if they take on the question of scrutiny and rule for something less than strict scrutiny. But I doubt they'll even touch it, since it is irrelevant to the case at hand, and even if they do, they'll probably rule for strict scrutiny anyway.

Grakken
12-21-2009, 8:06 PM
as you can tell, I know little legalese. I'm glad it can't be re-heard but until the fat lady sings in our favor...

GuyW
12-21-2009, 8:30 PM
There is NOTHING in 2A that says you get to walk down the street with a gun.

WRONG on 2 basis:

what exactly do you think "bear" means?

2nd, see attached image from Heller case....
.

cbn620
12-21-2009, 8:43 PM
Incorporation does not jump to legal LOC. Incorporation merely means the 2nd amendment will be applied as against the states, including ours, meaning we have official 2nd amendment rights. There are two basic ways this can happen: through privileges and immunities (P&I) or through the due process clause (DP). I can't explain those processes any better than they've been explained in many other places; read the links posted earlier in the thread and/or relevant wikipedia articles on constitutional law.

A victory at the upcoming McDonald v. Chicago should give us a general outcome as to incorporation. You ask about the general consensus, and I'd say yes, the general consensus is that we will win. Since incorporation would establish legal precedence, it would lay the basis for future pro-2A rights cases which could potentially make life for law-abiding gun owners in California a lot easier. Possible next steps post-incorporation have been discussed ad nauseum.

As for what Calguns is doing, you don't have to look far to figure that out.

Anyways, hope that gives you a general primer. Go do more searching, the info is definitely out there.