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View Full Version : I'm Sure I Already Know the Answer, But...


halifax
12-20-2009, 10:43 PM
An out-of-town dealer told a local here that he would just mail a revolver to me here after the 10 day wait from a PPT the local did at the other dealer's shop. WTH? If he believes the revolver is good to go why not just send it directly to the local buyer and leave me out of it?

eljBRD
12-20-2009, 11:02 PM
I agree with your last point..if its not a relic gun, then he MUST send it to your local Gunshop before you can start the 10 day wait. he CAN NOT send ANY gun other than a relic gun directly to you in the mail

Cokebottle
12-20-2009, 11:07 PM
Are you saying that you are an FFL, and another dealer is going to ship to you?
The post is confusing since there are 2 or 3 parties involved besides yourself.

The out of town dealer can ship to your local FFL immediately (no 10 day wait on his end), where a local buyer can begin DROS. This would still be a roster-exempt PPT, but the FFL fees would be the same as for a regular transfer, not $35.

If it is a FTF/PPT at another location, the buyer must be present at the time the gun goes into "jail" for the 10 days.
I don't believe that dealer could then ship directly to the customer at the end of the 10 days... buyer must make 2 trips to the shop at least 10 days apart.

halifax
12-21-2009, 5:04 AM
Are you saying that you are an FFL, and another dealer is going to ship to you?
The post is confusing since there are 2 or 3 parties involved besides yourself.

The out of town dealer can ship to your local FFL immediately (no 10 day wait on his end), where a local buyer can begin DROS. This would still be a roster-exempt PPT, but the FFL fees would be the same as for a regular transfer, not $35.

If it is a FTF/PPT at another location, the buyer must be present at the time the gun goes into "jail" for the 10 days.
I don't believe that dealer could then ship directly to the customer at the end of the 10 days... buyer must make 2 trips to the shop at least 10 days apart.

I'm saying that a guy went out of town to do a PPT on a revolver. The out of town dealer did the 4473 and DROS and put the gun into the 10 day jail. The out of town dealer told the buyer that when the 10 day wait was over he could just send it to a local FFL (me) to be released to the buyer.

Although, it seems like something that should be OK, I don't think I can LEGALLY receive any firearm and just give it to a non-exempt person without another DROS and 10 day wait. Hell, I don't even know if the revolver is on the roster.

This would still be a roster-exempt PPT,

The original out of town PPT, yes, but not when it gets to me.

...buyer must make 2 trips to the shop at least 10 days apart.

Exactly

tenpercentfirearms
12-21-2009, 8:51 AM
No, no, no, no. Call the DOJ and ask them on this one.

First, all handguns that come into your inventory must be DROSed out of inventory unless you are shipping them to a licensed FFL (there might be an exemption for law enforcement, but it is a pain).

So if you receive a handgun from another dealer, that handgun must be DROSed.

Second, how in the hell is the other dealer getting final signatures on the 4473? How is that other dealer confirming the buyer's identity if you are the one delivering the handgun? Is this person HSC exempt? If not, is the other dealer going to have you perform the HSC and then have you send it back him? And those are just the questions the other dealer needs to answer to stay legal. You still have to answer how you have a gun coming in from a dealer and being signed directly out to a buyer without any paperwork involved. You will need to answer to this to both the CA DOJ and the BATFE.

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole and no amount of transfer fee is worth this one.

halifax
12-21-2009, 8:58 AM
No, no, no, no. Call the DOJ and ask them on this one.

First, all handguns that come into your inventory must be DROSed out of inventory unless you are shipping them to a licensed FFL (there might be an exemption for law enforcement, but it is a pain).

So if you receive a handgun from another dealer, that handgun must be DROSed.

Second, how in the hell is the other dealer getting final signatures on the 4473? How is that other dealer confirming the buyer's identity if you are the one delivering the handgun? Is this person HSC exempt? If not, is the other dealer going to have you perform the HSC and then have you send it back him? And those are just the questions the other dealer needs to answer to stay legal. You still have to answer how you have a gun coming in from a dealer and being signed directly out to a buyer without any paperwork involved. You will need to answer to this to both the CA DOJ and the BATFE.

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole and no amount of transfer fee is worth this one.

What really ticks me off is that because the other FFL told my customer this could be done now I look like the jerk FFL.
:mad:

tenpercentfirearms
12-21-2009, 9:01 AM
Don't worry, you just need to get your references to code laid out and call the DOJ and get an answer. Provide the answer to the customer and let them know that there are many things FFLs can do that are completely illegal and no one will ever know until an audit. Then explain to the customer that they are free to call the DOJ for their own information and in the end if the customer can find another FFL that would be willing to do this, you won't take it personal.

Explain in the end you take the time to understand the law so you can be a good gun dealer for a long time. Unfortunately CA state law makes many things more difficult than they have to be, but you will not violate the law.

halifax
12-21-2009, 9:05 AM
Don't worry, you just need to get your references to code laid out and call the DOJ and get an answer. Provide the answer to the customer and let them know that there are many things FFLs can do that are completely illegal and no one will ever know until an audit. Then explain to the customer that they are free to call the DOJ for their own information and in the end if the customer can find another FFL that would be willing to do this, you won't take it personal.

Explain in the end you take the time to understand the law so you can be a good gun dealer for a long time. Unfortunately CA state law makes many things more difficult than they have to be, but you will not violate the law.

Thanks Wes. Like the title says I really already knew the answer to this one. I won't be calling the DOJ because I have no intention of carrying through on this. Just don't like other FFLs spreading this crap.

kemasa
12-21-2009, 12:26 PM
It won't fly with the CA DOJ nor will it fly with the BATF. While you can check with both, there really isn't any point since it is clearly not how things are done. As was mentioned, the FFL who did the PPT will not be able to get the required signature on the 4473 nor will they be able to accurately write down the date and time the firearm was delivered on the DROS. You do not have a copy of the DROS, not that it matters, since you did not submit it.

The person needs to go back to that dealer to pick it up and you need to tell them that they were given incorrect information from the original FFL.

halifax
12-21-2009, 12:39 PM
I provided a link to this thread to the local buyer. He is onboard with what is going on. Thanks everyone for the input. It goes a long way to hear the "facts" from other reliable FFLs.