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JDoe
12-20-2009, 11:46 AM
Just a note for anyone that is interested that there will be another gun buy back in a school zone on Dec. 22, 2009. (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/17/interfaith-council-back-gun-swap/)

Horton Elementary School, 5050 Guymon St, San Diego, CA 92102 is located approximately 630 feet away from the gun buy back site at 4981 Market St, San Diego.

http://old.sandi.net/comm/schools/elem/horton.html

HT to PNS for the gun buy back story (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=251447)

wildhawker
12-20-2009, 12:05 PM
Maybe an informational note to SDPD is in order. Documentation of the event itself could prove useful.

hoffmang
12-20-2009, 12:06 PM
Someone has to send a letter on this one...

-Gene

HUTCH 7.62
12-20-2009, 12:07 PM
WTF they can have gun buybacks at schools but we can't OC 1000 feet of a school. This does not seem logical.

Purple K
12-20-2009, 12:36 PM
I just phoned SDPD about this. After one of those "pregnant pauses" she said she'd forward the info to her supervisor.....lol

professorhard
12-20-2009, 12:39 PM
Stuff like this is complete BS and just selective enforcement of the law. They nail UOCers like Theseus and then turn right around and do nothing when a complete gun buyback happens in a school zone.

JDoe
12-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Librarian posted some interesting info regarding informing the Sheriff about such goings on in another thread on the same topic. Honestly I don't know if it would apply.


I wonder if we can get some inter-agency rivalry going.

PC says:

15. A crime or public offense is an act committed or omitted in
violation of a law forbidding or commanding it, and to which is
annexed, upon conviction, either of the following punishments:
1. Death;
2. Imprisonment;
3. Fine;
4. Removal from office; or,
5. Disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust,
or profit in this State.

16. Crimes and public offenses include:
1. Felonies;
2. Misdemeanors; and
3. Infractions.

And at 626.9 it says the penalties are

(f) (1) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school
providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive,
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three,
or five years.
(2) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, shall be punished as follows:
(A) By imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five
years, if any of the following circumstances apply:
(i) If the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or
of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
12000) of Title 2 of Part 4.
(ii) If the person is within a class of persons prohibited from
possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.
(iii) If the firearm is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person and the offense is
punished as a felony pursuant to Section 12025.
(B) By imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or
by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years,
in all cases other than those specified in subparagraph (A).

, so violation is a 'public offense'. And then Government Code says

26601. The sheriff shall arrest and take before the nearest
magistrate for examination all persons who attempt to commit or who
have committed a public offense.

Unfortunately, police don't have the obligation imposed on a Sheriff:

Penal Code 836. (a) A peace officer may arrest a person in obedience to a
warrant, or, pursuant to the authority granted to him or her by
Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2,
without a warrant, may arrest a person whenever any of the following
circumstances occur:
(1) The officer has probable cause to believe that the person to
be arrested has committed a public offense in the officer's presence.

LAPD was sponsoring a gun buy back and many locations were in 626.9 zones. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=172932) Once the authorities (don't know which ones) were made aware of this they moved 14 locations out of 626.9 school zones.

Rumor has it that a lot of different authorities became aware of the 626.9 problem on that gun buy back including the DOJ and that prompted the move.

Vectrexer
12-20-2009, 1:03 PM
Just sent an update to the author of the story indicating a warning should be provided to anyone who plans to go by posting an update to the story on their web site.

God knows we don't need another reason for the police to provide free housing to the ignorant folks who go inside the school zone area only to be arrested.

(not expecting j.s. from the author or the SD Trib.)


Also emailed and phoned the United African American Ministerial Action Council on the matter asking them to cancel the event due to poor planning.

davescz
12-20-2009, 1:04 PM
Someone has to send a letter on this one...

-Gene

No, someone needs to film it, get plate numbers, and present it as a defencse for that poor man in san jose that got busted for open carry near a school.

so the law only applies some times.

I recall reading on this site about teh high school boy that got expelled near Sacromento for shot gun shells (spent) in his truck parked near a school, the DA did not prosecute becuase there was no intent to break teh law, (how ever teh school decided to expell him)

seems to me in san jose the DA is anti-gun. there was no intent to harm anyone by the man I am sure

CCWFacts
12-20-2009, 1:04 PM
Someone has to send a letter on this one...

Could some friendly out-of-town LEOs go there and make sweeping arrests of everyone involved? The people showing up are all committing serious felonies, and the organizers have created a serious criminal conspiracy. Aren't we supposed to be tough on criminals who use guns, especially in schools?

JDoe
12-20-2009, 1:10 PM
Could some friendly out-of-town LEOs go there and make sweeping arrests of everyone involved? The people showing up are all committing serious felonies, and the organizers have created a serious criminal conspiracy. Aren't we supposed to be tough on criminals who use guns, especially in schools?

If you read California law it wouldn't have to be out of town LEOs the Sheriff doesn't have a choice and shall arrest...per CA Government Code (courtesy of Librarian above)

26601. The sheriff shall arrest and take before the nearest
magistrate for examination all persons who attempt to commit or who
have committed a public offense.

I'd expect conspiracy would be covered by 26601 but then again I wasn't aware that private property is sometimes public property according to some CA judges.

2009_gunner
12-20-2009, 1:10 PM
The story is dated over a YEAR ago: December 13, 2008

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081213/news_1m13guns.html

If it really happened, though, and there is evidence, it could still be interesting.

JDoe
12-20-2009, 1:19 PM
The story is dated over a YEAR ago: December 13, 2008

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081213/news_1m13guns.html

If it really happened, though, and there is evidence, it could still be interesting.

Whoops! Correction has been made to the OP with correct link with the upcoming gun buy back.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/17/interfaith-council-back-gun-swap/

bigcalidave
12-20-2009, 1:22 PM
I think they are trying to get around the hassle by recommending that people leave guns in the trunks of their cars to be collected by the police. If someone was there to film, they might pick up the ones who do NOT have them properly locked who don't get arrested. Someone should call the REVEREND who is putting on the buyback and let them know what laws they are breaking or trying to coerce people to break...

Ikenna Kokayi
Or
Gerald Brown
United African American Ministerial Action Council
http://uaamac.com/
4891 Market St
San Diego, CA 92102
619-264-1213 Phone
619-264-1214 Fax
info@uaamac.org

They are a 510(c)(3) as well. Are there any regulations they are violating? I know cgf should know everything about the rules now....

edit: it happened last year, they ran out of vouchers in two hours. And it's going to happen again TOMORROW from 9am to 1pm.. Get down there!

GrizzlyGuy
12-20-2009, 3:25 PM
No, someone needs to film it, get plate numbers, and present it as a defencse for that poor man in san jose that got busted for open carry near a school.

so the law only applies some times.


+1

Video taping the gun buy back has the potential to help Theseus a lot more. Presumably the cars will stop in the organization's parking lot (private property). If even one person shows up without the gun being properly locked in a container, and doesn't get arrested and charged, that could play into Theseus's appeal (law was not applied equally).

bigcalidave
12-20-2009, 3:39 PM
Cross post from off topic
Seriously, it's tomorrow, and it's in a school zone. A couple people there with camcorders would be perfect. They can't do ANYTHING to you for filming the event, but I bet a LOT of people don't stop. An FFL there with some good cash on hand and people with signs posting that the ffl will most likely pay more could make for a great news story. If you have an FFL and will do this, be sure to notify all the local media.

CitaDeL
12-20-2009, 3:50 PM
Theres already discussion about documenting the activity by video over on OCDO. (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/35372-1.html)

It is very gratifying to see that others would like to expose the hypocrisy of selectively prosecuting an innocent and boldly inviting others to enter the gun free school zone with a firearm, likely opening those unaware to a charge of 12025 and 626.9

Were I of the means to, Id fly down just to run a camera.

JDoe
12-20-2009, 3:59 PM
Theres already discussion about documenting the activity by video over on OCDO. (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/35372-1.html)

It is very gratifying to see that others would like to expose the hypocrisy of selectively prosecuting an innocent and boldly inviting others to enter the gun free school zone with a firearm, likely opening those unaware to a charge of 12025 and 626.9

They did this gun buy back last year too at the same location (http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081213/news_1m13guns.html).

GrizzlyGuy
12-20-2009, 4:26 PM
Theres already discussion about documenting the activity by video over on OCDO. (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/35372-1.html)

It is very gratifying to see that others would like to expose the hypocrisy of selectively prosecuting an innocent and boldly inviting others to enter the gun free school zone with a firearm, likely opening those unaware to a charge of 12025 and 626.9

Were I of the means to, Id fly down just to run a camera.

Good to know someone will be videoing. Had I known about this earlier, I would have flown down too. I've got several video cameras, bullet cams, helmet cams, etc. Oh well, if they need any help editing the videos, I've got Final Cut Pro and a few TB of free disk space on the mac ready to roll. :)

RP1911
12-20-2009, 6:16 PM
Imagine having a sign and standing on the side of the road warning that entering the GFSZ with a gun is a violation and they are being videotaped.

professorhard
12-20-2009, 6:24 PM
Imagine having a sign and standing on the side of the road warning that entering the GFSZ with a gun is a violation and they are being videotaped.

That's a good idea

bigcalidave
12-20-2009, 6:44 PM
Anyone in san diego gonna be out there?

wildhawker
12-20-2009, 6:54 PM
Imagine having a sign and standing on the side of the road warning that entering the GFSZ with a gun is a violation and they are being videotaped.

We might want to be a bit more clear: having an unlocked firearm capable of being concealed within 1000FT of a school without a permit to carry is a violation... and that they are being videotaped.

CitaDeL
12-20-2009, 7:01 PM
Imagine having a sign and standing on the side of the road warning that entering the GFSZ with a gun is a violation and they are being videotaped.



That's a good idea

I disagree at this point. Right now, what would be in our best interests, is to allow the authorities to conduct their gun buy back, particularly if they insist on having them on private property within 1000 feet of a K-12 school- so we may fully document people in possession of a concealable firearm not getting arrested for violation of 626.9.

IrishPirate
12-20-2009, 7:04 PM
whoever plans these things should be slapped

professorhard
12-20-2009, 7:08 PM
Wonder if any grenades will show up, like that other buyback. Is there any law against possessing a grenade in a school zone...

Sionadi
12-20-2009, 7:20 PM
I'd like to go out there with a video camera and video tape people taking firearms into the GFSZ, make a citizens arrest, show the sheriff the tape, if he lets it go 626.9 gets thrown out the window.

RP1911
12-20-2009, 7:21 PM
I disagree at this point. Right now, what would be in our best interests, is to allow the authorities to conduct their gun buy back, particularly if they insist on having them on private property within 1000 feet of a K-12 school- so we may fully document people in possession of a concealable firearm not getting arrested for violation of 626.9.

I understand. My thought was to derail the buy back.

But if the goal is to document violations, have a sign that says entering GFSZ (nothing else). Then document via video etc. when guns are removed from vehicles.

What that does is establish that the public was warned and law enforcement was 'on notice'. Then you have all the violations recorded/documented. It makes for a better case.

GrizzlyGuy
12-20-2009, 7:25 PM
I disagree at this point. Right now, what would be in our best interests, is to allow the authorities to conduct their gun buy back, particularly if they insist on having them on private property within 1000 feet of a K-12 school- so we may fully document people in possession of a concealable firearm not getting arrested for violation of 626.9.

Bingo. Not only private property, but private property open to the public.

Per the organization's web site (http://uaamac.com/), their board of directors consists of "eight members of the pastoral, community service, law enforcement, financial and lay person community". If all those people and the law enforcement agency don't even know that they are engaged in an illegal act involving many people and many dangerous weapons, how is society morally justified in convicting a private citizen who is peacefully doing his laundry, while carrying an unloaded handgun solely for self defense, who believes his actions are lawful even after being aware of and reading the statute?

Vectrexer
12-20-2009, 8:01 PM
btw, the org that is running the event has be informed of the school.

they plan to run with the event nonetheless.

god help those who look suspicious while at the same time inviting the police into their car to retrieve the firearm at what the organizers term is an "exchange".

i've already warned off one poor soul who was going to attend the event. if they're going to turn in, they might as well do it under less risky circumstances.

Vectrexer
12-20-2009, 8:07 PM
We might want to be a bit more clear: having an unlocked firearm capable of being concealed within 1000FT of a school without a permit to carry is a violation... and that they are being videotaped.

Maybe that one of the reasons is why at this event the Police will be retrieving the firearm directly from the car, as opposed to the the people bringing it up to a platform. Less direct visual evidence of a crime. Or crimes endorsed by the hosting organization.

pullnshoot25
12-20-2009, 8:52 PM
+1

Video taping the gun buy back has the potential to help Theseus a lot more. Presumably the cars will stop in the organization's parking lot (private property). If even one person shows up without the gun being properly locked in a container, and doesn't get arrested and charged, that could play into Theseus's appeal (law was not applied equally).

I will be there, FILMING!

Also, I need some legal beagle help right about now. I am planning to attend and possibly snag some nice C&R guns with my C&R license. Are there ANY issues present in me acquiring firearms with my license?

gravedigger
12-20-2009, 9:28 PM
"The guns, which must be unloaded, will be collected by San Diego police officers — no questions asked and no identification required. The guns will then be destroyed."

Really? This sounds like a great way to get rid of a gun that could be traced back to a crime through ballistics testing. Willful destruction of evidence? Perhaps to reduce their paperwork load?!? I can't believe these idiots are doing this.

Theseus
12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Originally I thought about the whole citizens arrest issue as well, but if I understand correctly even at appeals level we can have people do the briefs in support of cases. . . if we can get this on tape and get the San Diego DA to support my case I am sure that would be very persuasive on the court and lending to the vagueness issue. That would be better than trying to get otherwise unknowing people in legal troubles.

snobord99
12-20-2009, 10:21 PM
"The guns, which must be unloaded, will be collected by San Diego police officers — no questions asked and no identification required. The guns will then be destroyed."

Really? This sounds like a great way to get rid of a gun that could be traced back to a crime through ballistics testing. Willful destruction of evidence? Perhaps to reduce their paperwork load?!? I can't believe these idiots are doing this.

I think they do check the gun's serial # first.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-20-2009, 10:25 PM
I will be there, FILMING!

Also, I need some legal beagle help right about now. I am planning to attend and possibly snag some nice C&R guns with my C&R license. Are there ANY issues present in me acquiring firearms with my license?

You just need to make sure that any guns you acquire at the buyback are 50+ year old C&R long guns. You'll also need to get the seller's name and address for your bound book. That might stop some people from selling to you.

snobord99
12-20-2009, 10:32 PM
I have a question. Does anyone here know for a FACT that they don't have "the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority"? I mean, I would think that they (the cops) have covered their basis and gotten permission by the way of "anyone carrying a gun on x date between y time to z time for the purposes of the gun exchange have permission to do so." I don't see anything in the statute that doesn't allow for such permission. I can see an equal protection argument from this kind of permission but I pretty sure it's a losing argument.

That said, anyone thought that maybe the TRULY smart thing to do is to stand there with a sign that says "tell me what you have, I might pay you $150 for it." :p.

Sionadi
12-20-2009, 10:43 PM
For the written permission to be legal, EVERYONE planning on bringing a gun needs to get written permission.

snobord99
12-20-2009, 10:52 PM
For the written permission to be legal, EVERYONE planning on bringing a gun needs to get written permission.

Do you have a cite for this or is this a "that's the way I think it outta be"?

bigcalidave
12-20-2009, 11:05 PM
No that's what the law says for 626.9
Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).



http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html

snobord99
12-20-2009, 11:37 PM
No that's what the law says for 626.9

And permission by the way of "anyone carrying a gun on x date between y time to z time for the purposes of the gun exchange have permission to do so" can't be written? :confused:

Sionadi
12-20-2009, 11:39 PM
look at his post, ANYONE carrying a gun within 1000 ft of a school needs written permission from the school district.

bigcalidave
12-20-2009, 11:39 PM
It says ANY PERSON. You're a lawyer, argue both sides of that. Can ANY PERSON mean ALL PEOPLE? Or does it mean each and every person.

snobord99
12-20-2009, 11:48 PM
Read it carefully. Yes, "any person" certainly can mean "all people." Hell, read in context, this is exactly what it means. But I don't get why you think this has anything to do with who the school official can give permission to.

Does it in any way limit who the school official can give permission to? If they decided to say "I'm going to let EVERYONE carry a gun," does the statute say that they can't do that? It just says you can't carry without their permission. It doesn't say who they can and can't give permission to. So, I'll ask again, what, from that statute, makes you think that they can't give permission to "anyone carrying a gun on x date between y time to z time for the purposes of the gun exchange"?

MindBuilder
12-20-2009, 11:51 PM
I think the school could give generic permission to everyone who is bringing a gun to the buyback.

Even if we could catch people in violation, I doubt it would be of any use comparing it to people carrying for self-defense. The person violating the law would be doing it at the invitation of the police and without intent to violate the law. The person in violation might not be a willing gun owner and probably wouldn't know about the law, and this might well be considered one of the rare situations where ignorance of the law is an excuse. It might also qualify as entrapment to bust them for it.

However it might be useful to subpoena the officers who set this up and get them to admit that it's easy to make the mistake of not realizing you're in a GFSZ or not realizing it's prohibited. It would be even more interesting if they testified that they knew it was in a GFSZ and decided to have it there for leverage over people who had second thoughts about handing over their guns, for example when the vouchers ran out.

AndrewMendez
12-21-2009, 12:14 AM
Originally I thought about the whole citizens arrest issue as well, but if I understand correctly even at appeals level we can have people do the briefs in support of cases. . . if we can get this on tape and get the San Diego DA to support my case I am sure that would be very persuasive on the court and lending to the vagueness issue. That would be better than trying to get otherwise unknowing people in legal troubles.

I wish you the best of luck, in hoping this situation helps yours!

AndrewMendez
12-21-2009, 12:17 AM
I will be there, FILMING!

Also, I need some legal beagle help right about now. I am planning to attend and possibly snag some nice C&R guns with my C&R license. Are there ANY issues present in me acquiring firearms with my license?

Nate,
Let me know if your going to resell any of these bad boys to me!

Vectrexer
12-21-2009, 1:53 AM
Another question,,, did anyone inform the Principal or the school board yet of the "Exchange"? Their passivity after being informed might also be construed as willingly accepting firearms in their midst ,,, so to speak,, without pre-authorization.

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 2:08 AM
Ok so someone prar the letter of permission from the school representative to allow people to violate the gfsz. Why argue this detail. Submit the request tomorrow after video proof of violations. Let's see if they cover the bases.

GrizzlyGuy
12-21-2009, 5:40 AM
Read it carefully. Yes, "any person" certainly can mean "all people." Hell, read in context, this is exactly what it means. But I don't get why you think this has anything to do with who the school official can give permission to.

OK, but what about the federal GFSZ law (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Law)? Here is the only exemption that might be applicable:

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone


Would you be 'using your firearm in a program' when the intent of the program is to buy your firearm? The federal law doesn't exempt long guns from the locked container (or locked gun rack) requirement, so the video tapes may end up showing more violations of the federal law than 626.9 if no suitable permission from the school administrators was granted.

Regardless, after this event occurs, someone should arrange a meeting with the district superintendent and find out for sure whether or not permission was granted. Here is the Horton Elementary School web site (http://old.sandi.net/comm/schools/elem/horton.html), and the Superintendent link redirects to here (http://www.sandi.net/20451072095935997/site/default.asp). He is a retired Navy Rear Admiral, and I'll bet he never gave permission for strangers to bring firearms onto his Navy base or ship.

snobord99
12-21-2009, 8:34 AM
OK, but what about the federal GFSZ law (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Law)? Here is the only exemption that might be applicable:

Would you be 'using your firearm in a program' when the intent of the program is to buy your firearm? The federal law doesn't exempt long guns from the locked container (or locked gun rack) requirement, so the video tapes may end up showing more violations of the federal law than 626.9 if no suitable permission from the school administrators was granted.

I think it would qualify as using the firearm in a program. Obviously debatable, but I don't feel like searching the case law. I doubt anything exists that's very on point to this question.

lorax3
12-21-2009, 9:53 AM
Decided to head down there today to see how the process worked. Got a few interesting photos. At one point however I was asked to leave as it was 'private property' and did not have a press badge.

LEO removing a revolver which a gentleman had wrapped up in a paper grocery bag toward the rear of his station wagon. To note: there was no separate locking trunk.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40835&stc=1&d=1261420968

LEO removing a firearm from the trunk of a vehicle

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40837&stc=1&d=1261420968.


Man handing LEO another revolver that was wrapped up in cloth. Last picture is the LEO examination.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40836&stc=1&d=1261420968.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40838&d=1261420966

gun toting monkeyboy
12-21-2009, 10:36 AM
No, someone needs to film it, get plate numbers, and present it as a defencse for that poor man in san jose that got busted for open carry near a school.

so the law only applies some times.

I recall reading on this site about teh high school boy that got expelled near Sacromento for shot gun shells (spent) in his truck parked near a school, the DA did not prosecute becuase there was no intent to break teh law, (how ever teh school decided to expell him)

seems to me in san jose the DA is anti-gun. there was no intent to harm anyone by the man I am sure

Dave, the word you are looking for is "the", not "teh". Once in a post can be overlooked. But you are mis-spelling the same word 60% of the time. I know you are being passionate about the topic, but please, please, please try to fix that. It makes my head hurt reading that again and again... :p

snobord99
12-21-2009, 10:40 AM
Dave, the word you are looking for is "the", not "teh". Once in a post can be overlooked. But you are mis-spelling the same word 60% of the time. I know you are being passionate about the topic, but please, please, please try to fix that. It makes my head hurt reading that again and again...

LOL. Ease up. Even if it's 60% of the time, I'm sure it's a typo. Their left hand probably just moves faster than their right.

GrizzlyGuy
12-21-2009, 10:42 AM
Good work lorax3, those photos are quite a score!

Who is that with the video camera in the last picture? One of ours or real media?

HUTCH 7.62
12-21-2009, 10:42 AM
No, someone needs to film it, get plate numbers, and present it as a defencse for that poor man in san jose that got busted for open carry near a school.

so the law only applies some times.

I recall reading on this site about teh high school boy that got expelled near Sacromento for shot gun shells (spent) in his truck parked near a school, the DA did not prosecute becuase there was no intent to break teh law, (how ever teh school decided to expell him)

seems to me in san jose the DA is anti-gun. there was no intent to harm anyone by the man I am sure

+1000

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Those pics are GREAT !! That's exactly the kind of ammo Theseus needs. Blatant violations of the law. Where's pullnshoot!!
Take some pics of the buyback FROM THE SCHOOL!!! or of the school FROM THE BUYBACK!

Purple K
12-21-2009, 10:47 AM
btw, the org that is running the event has be informed of the school.

they plan to run with the event nonetheless.

god help those who look suspicious while at the same time inviting the police into their car to retrieve the firearm at what the organizers term is an "exchange".

i've already warned off one poor soul who was going to attend the event. if they're going to turn in, they might as well do it under less risky circumstances.

I left a voicemail with the host organization yesterday.

HUTCH 7.62
12-21-2009, 10:52 AM
No longer should we let the Gov. pass laws to restrict us while the Gov. blatently violates their Law.,

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 10:57 AM
Are the police not wearing uniforms to ease the minds of the criminals they hope will show up? Someone should call in a bunch of guys with guns in a parking lot near a school.

gun toting monkeyboy
12-21-2009, 10:58 AM
Good work lorax3, those photos are quite a score!

Who is that with the video camera in the last picture? One of ours or real media?

Yeah, who was the video person? If it was somebody from the PD PR department, can we get a copy of it through the state version of the freedom of information act?

missiondude
12-21-2009, 11:14 AM
Went down there to check it out. Saw 8 or so uniformed PD, 4 plain clothes, 2 "news" crews, 1 of which had a strong anti gun bias. I am sure that the story is going to be how the gun crazies were trying to keep guns on the street where they can hurt the children. This location is difficult to do any outreach in as it is on private property. It would take some very large signage and probably a tent set up next door or across the street to intercept anyone turning in the guns. Then the problem becomes one of unlocked guns in the school zone. Wonder if any of the adjacent property owners are Calguns members???

Purple K
12-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Maybe a UOC event at a business across the street or next door would show the hypocracy.......

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 11:38 AM
Someone brave and wealthy enough for defense could always UOC a pos handgun right down there, right into the 1000' zone, right up to the buyback, and collect their gift card. With another person filming the whole thing from a distance. If you get arrested, you were just there to participate in the buyback and get rid of that gun. You carried it openly because you heard that was legal. If they arrest you for 626.9, you will have to bring up that you were bringing the handgun to a buyback within the 1000' zone. If you don't get arrested, the video will show the selective enforcement of the law...

sfpcservice
12-21-2009, 11:51 AM
I think we need a calgunner who has the resources mentioned above to witness a "gun violation" during this buyback and then arrest the officer and citizen involved. That might be interesting to watch.....

JDoe
12-21-2009, 12:00 PM
LEO removing a revolver which a gentleman had wrapped up in a paper grocery bag toward the rear of his station wagon. To note: there was no separate locking trunk.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40835&stc=1&d=1261420968

Man handing LEO another revolver that was wrapped up in cloth...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40836&stc=1&d=1261420968.

So is that a clear violation of the 629.9 zone or what? :mad:

Good Work Lorax3!!! :thumbsup:

lorax3
12-21-2009, 12:13 PM
One of ours or real media?

That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Edit: Channel Ten

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.

sfpcservice
12-21-2009, 12:19 PM
That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Do not recall what channel.

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.

Cool....Oh wait, what about the firearms that were concealed in paper bags?

lorax3
12-21-2009, 12:21 PM
Cool....Oh wait, what about the firearms that were concealed in paper bags?

Right, both 12025 and 626.9 issues. May have even been a few cases of 12031, although I didn't see any for the brief time I was able to get up close.

dave1947
12-21-2009, 12:34 PM
We were across the street from the site, Pullnshhot and a few others. He did video tape most of the event. What a waste. did give out some info about selling guns for more of what they are worth. but most people were totally oblivious and drove into the exchange.

Flying_clutchman
12-21-2009, 12:46 PM
The members of that community center were quite angry at us!! they kept yelling at all the cars that stopped and talked to us. We were even threatened with C4 and tasers. those guys were kooks!!

383green
12-21-2009, 12:49 PM
The members of that community center were quite angry at us!! [...] We were even threatened with C4

Those community center folks are pretty hardcore if they threatened you with plastic explosives. :p

Flying_clutchman
12-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Here it is boys, we are famous!!

http://www.10news.com/video/22028335/index.html

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 1:03 PM
Dude, what a day!

I got plenty of footage of FOUR 626.9 and 12025 violations. I tried to get people to reconsider destroying these guns (I damn near cried, to tell you the truth) but a great many did not care and just sheepled their way in to the buyback. I tried to stay in the buyback to get footage but we were kicked out for not having a press pass. Guess what is next in my repertoire?

The community "leaders" were very aggressive and I really wish I had my BHP or my Saiga but alas, I was disarmed. Lots of yelling and acting like morons. The main guy even said that he owned the sidewalk.

I did manage to save a gun from destruction, I will post here in a bit.

Processing video now for "the right people"

CARRY ON!

-N8

mej16489
12-21-2009, 1:38 PM
Did Ed use his press credentials at all to get in?

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 1:46 PM
BEAUTIFUL!!! Excellent work guys! hahaha. There are so many sad quotes from that news story, I'm sure the day was infuriating. Do you have the threats of the agency on film as well?

It's a win win for san diego families and the police today as they trade guns for gift cards! omg.

Table did look like a bunch of crap as well. I wish the quote on TV was "do you see any criminals turning in their guns here? What if one of these people is killed in an armed robbery next week, bet they would wish they still had the gun then"

CitaDeL
12-21-2009, 1:57 PM
Good job.

This illustrated that 12025 and 626.9 are not equally enforced in spite of the fact there is no difference between someone on publically accessable private property carrying for self-defense and those who are carrying to willingly disarm themselves.

The mention on the news was also noteworthy in that it will make people think before trading a 50 year old 1911 for a $50 gift card. (And didnt get portrayed as camo wearing gun nuts...)

I think this is a performance worthy of repeating-:)

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 2:13 PM
Good job.

This illustrated that 12025 and 626.9 are not equally enforced in spite of the fact there is no difference between someone on publically accessable private property carrying for self-defense and those who are carrying to willingly disarm themselves.

The mention on the news was also noteworthy in that it will make people think before trading a 50 year old 1911 for a $50 gift card. (And didnt get portrayed as camo wearing gun nuts...)

I think this is a performance worthy of repeating-:)

I busted out a brand NEW pair of LAPG pants, just for this occasion :)

Here is a pic of what I managed to save from the gun show. C&R eligible at EXACTLY 50yrs old. I offered him 150 initially then broke down and told him the it was worth about 500 and that he should sell it privately. He went to SoCalGun but they wouldn't buy it because they already have too many guns (GASP!) and so he drove all the way back to offer it to me for 200 bucks and so I took it for the greater good :)

This is actually my favorite shotgun ever. I had one that I used and was going to buy from my brother when I was younger but my brother sold it before I could get the money together. That shotgun gave me the idea for my screen name as I was really into trap a while back. Now, I have my trap gun back! :)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/pullnshoot25/100_2840.jpg

Sionadi
12-21-2009, 2:20 PM
I have the same shotgun i love it!

At least you saved 1 gun from destruction.

Did you see any real valuable guns being turned in?

RRangel
12-21-2009, 2:21 PM
Decided to head down there today to see how the process worked. Got a few interesting photos. At one point however I was asked to leave as it was 'private property' and did not have a press badge.

LEO removing a revolver which a gentleman had wrapped up in a paper grocery bag toward the rear of his station wagon. To note: there was no separate locking trunk.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40835&stc=1&d=1261420968

LEO removing a firearm from the trunk of a vehicle

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40837&stc=1&d=1261420968.


Man handing LEO another revolver that was wrapped up in cloth. Last picture is the LEO examination.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40836&stc=1&d=1261420968.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40838&d=1261420966

I find this very interesting. This was public property, but property that is open to the public during business hours am I correct? Do the property owners or management there have an official policy regarding photos at all, or did someone feel that you may try and spoil their anti-gun fun and ask you to leave? Who or what entity asked you to leave?

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 2:26 PM
I find this very interesting. This was public property, but property that is open to the public during business hours am I correct? Do the property owners or management there have an official policy regarding photos at all, or did someone feel that you may try and spoil their anti-gun fun and ask you to leave? Who or what entity asked you to leave?

"The tenants" asked me to leave because I didn't have a press pass or some crap like that. There is a whole big "private or public property" thing going on right now that has a direct effect on a few things, IMHO.

Lorax3 and I will reconvene the legal discussion later tonight :)

bigcalidave
12-21-2009, 2:30 PM
You changed one persons mind and hopefully that spreads to more, excellent work! Maybe next time there will be some more competition !! hahahah I wish those idiots in the media would cover YOUR side of the story, but that would be unbiased and fair.

jdberger
12-21-2009, 2:34 PM
Someone brave and wealthy enough for defense could always UOC a pos handgun right down there, right into the 1000' zone, right up to the buyback, and collect their gift card. With another person filming the whole thing from a distance. If you get arrested, you were just there to participate in the buyback and get rid of that gun. You carried it openly because you heard that was legal. If they arrest you for 626.9, you will have to bring up that you were bringing the handgun to a buyback within the 1000' zone. If you don't get arrested, the video will show the selective enforcement of the law...

Ride up on a bicycle.

383green
12-21-2009, 2:41 PM
Congratulations on rescuing that shotgun! It looks like a beauty!

ParallaxTactical.com
12-21-2009, 2:48 PM
Press passes are cool and shiny! :P

Bill_in_SD
12-21-2009, 2:51 PM
Sorry I missed this... I have never been to a gun buyback and I thought it was the 22nd based on the first post.... guess I should read further down. I am in the for the next one, please title the thread with date and time!

Good work to those who showed up.

Any chance CGN can apply for a 'press pass' or whatever is needed - you know for the CGN online publication? (hint, hint)

Also, with no documentation for the turned in items, how many actually make it to the crusher? Is that something that can be PRARed? At least their process for tracking? As a concerned citizen I want to make sure all those that are turned in do indeed get destroyed as promised. (I think that if it was used in a crime it is criminal and irresponsible to destroy them as mentioned earlier in the thread)

1BigPea
12-21-2009, 3:04 PM
Nice work on saving the shotgun!

Tag.

GrizzlyGuy
12-21-2009, 3:05 PM
You guys are awesome, very inspiring! The KGTV news story got it wrong: there wasn't a small group of protesters present, there was a small group of PATRIOTS present. :hurray:

leitung
12-21-2009, 3:45 PM
I think I am going to start protesting these gun buy backs when they hit the Sacramento area and offer to buy guns from people legally with my C&R.

Need to think of some catchy phrases for signs now... Help me out here!

BTW pullnshoot, if you ever come up to sac or if I ever make it to SD I think we should meet up, shoot that shotgun, and let me buy you a beer afterward! Good work!

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 3:49 PM
I think I am going to start protesting these gun buy backs when they hit the Sacramento area and offer to buy guns from people legally with my C&R.

Need to think of some catchy phrases for signs now... Help me out here!

BTW pullnshoot, if you ever come up to sac or if I ever make it to SD I think we should meet up, shoot that shotgun, and let me buy you a beer afterward! Good work!

Showing up with Oleg Volk posters should help :)

grammaton76
12-21-2009, 3:49 PM
I'm pretty sure that a "press pass" is not some kind of magic be-all end-all here.

If you have a pass and it's not one of the local affiliates, they're still going to question you and because it's being treated as a private event, you can still be ejected.

"Press pass?" is just the FIRST thing they asked. If you had one, they still would've found a reason to eject you.

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 4:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that a "press pass" is not some kind of magic be-all end-all here.

If you have a pass and it's not one of the local affiliates, they're still going to question you and because it's being treated as a private event, you can still be ejected.

"Press pass?" is just the FIRST thing they asked. If you had one, they still would've found a reason to eject you.

Potentially. However, they didn't kick Ed out and he was pretty visible from the get-go.

I get a feeling that Zimmerman may have singled me out...

NorCalMama
12-21-2009, 4:52 PM
Here it is boys, we are famous!!

http://www.10news.com/video/22028335/index.html

Starting at apx 1:37 was awesome! :) Good job to all who were involved! It really does make me feel ill when people turn their guns over like this. :mad:

bodger
12-21-2009, 5:09 PM
Too bad that reporter and news crew are missing the big story, which is the GFSZ issue.

N6ATF
12-21-2009, 5:12 PM
That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Edit: Channel Ten

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.

Book 'em, Dano. No such exemption.

Sionadi
12-21-2009, 5:23 PM
So, i can walk within 1000 feet of a school when school is not in session? Cant wait for summer vacation.

Book em

bodger
12-21-2009, 5:31 PM
That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Edit: Channel Ten

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.


Hmm....in that case, I think I'll strap on my H&K and head over to Alhambra and do some laundry.

JDoe
12-21-2009, 5:34 PM
Here it is boys, we are famous!!

http://www.10news.com/video/22028335/index.html

Someone needs to download that video for our side.

Here is a pic of what I managed to save from the gun show. C&R eligible at EXACTLY 50yrs old. I offered him 150 initially then broke down and told him the it was worth about 500 and that he should sell it privately. He went to SoCalGun but they wouldn't buy it because they already have too many guns (GASP!) and so he drove all the way back to offer it to me for 200 bucks and so I took it for the greater good :)

Good job Nate!

I think I am going to start protesting these gun buy backs when they hit the Sacramento area and offer to buy guns from people legally with my C&R.

Need to think of some catchy phrases for signs now... Help me out here!

"GUN BUY BACK - Check In Here" or "GUN BUY BACK - Main Entrance"

If you could setup two stations on either side of their entrance and had BIG signs you might capture a lot of people. With a web cam and a live link (EVDO connection?) interested parties on Calguns could bid for the guns live. The news story would be the guy that was going to get $100 for his rifle selling it for $2,000 to a Calgunner!

Good work everyone!

Pig Rifle
12-21-2009, 5:37 PM
Awesome, just f'ing awesome! Score one for the Calgunners and OCDO!!!!

RRangel
12-21-2009, 5:38 PM
Here it is boys, we are famous!!

http://www.10news.com/video/22028335/index.html


That was a classic display of how typical the mainstream media is in helping perpetuate the myth that inanimate objects are responsible for crime. Where the onus is on firearms for the misdeeds of criminals, and therefore we do not deserve our rights.

This also goes double for the United African American Ministerial Action Council and Gerald Brown. The same can be said of the local county and law enforcement leadership.

What about the expenses for law enforcement personnel that "have been taken off of the streets" instead of doing their jobs?

I'll never understand how these media people, Alajandra Cerball and Bill Griffith, can make these ridiculous statements with a straight face. They may as well be from Mars.

GrizzlyGuy
12-21-2009, 6:09 PM
Someone needs to download that video for our side.

Good idea, I used to know how to do this but my geek zen is failing me at the moment. If no one else knows how, I can try some Google zen to re-find that flash capture software that I used to have.

FYI, you guys have gone viral. Now you're on AOL over in the UK (http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/gun-owners-trade-in-weapons-for-gift-cards/537032258). When will the autograph signing party be? :p

AndrewMendez
12-21-2009, 6:49 PM
Where or where is Theasus?? Will this help your case at all??? Do we need another money bomb???

missiondude
12-21-2009, 7:22 PM
Just saw the broadcast on TV. They cut out all the shots of us, but at least they showed the cop muzzling himself, and the reporter with her finger on the trigger. She can (I guess) be excused as she has no experience with guns, but some of those officers show why people gut hurt with guns. For the next one of these, someone should have talking points memorized and touch on all the reasons these buybacks are a waste of recources, money, time, and in some cases valuable historic weapons.

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 7:40 PM
Where or where is Theasus?? Will this help your case at all??? Do we need another money bomb???

Couldn't make it. However, we did get evidence in his honor. Uploading to a remote, secure server now!

Noraku81
12-21-2009, 9:19 PM
Looks like you guys made some waves in the press corps.

http://www.sigonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/21/folks-line-up-to-swap-guns-for-groceires/

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 9:30 PM
Looks like you guys made some waves in the press corps.

http://www.sigonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/21/folks-line-up-to-swap-guns-for-groceires/

Was just about to post this too.

What a joke.

ChuckBooty
12-21-2009, 9:32 PM
Looks like you guys made some waves in the press corps.

http://www.sigonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/21/folks-line-up-to-swap-guns-for-groceires/



“The more guns we get off the street, the safer the city is,” said San Diego police Chief William Lansdowne who stopped by to see the response. He said he thought the program was great.

http://i45.tinypic.com/dwsymb.gif

pullnshoot25
12-21-2009, 9:37 PM
I must have told this to a bunch of people tonight (and you all know the story anyways) but the guns that were turned in were not guns used in crimes (DUH). Flintlocks? Duck guns? SxSs? .22 tube feeds? Since WHEN have those been the big "crime guns"?

What a ****ing pipe dream and/or hallucination.

NorCalMama
12-21-2009, 9:46 PM
Wolanyk said the group told one man that the shotgun he was going to turn in was worth $500. “He went away,” Wolanyk said.

Is this the same man who later came back and sold the gun for $200???

professorhard
12-21-2009, 9:57 PM
You guys rule nate! If I was in SD right now I woulda been right there! I say we go yote hunting asap at my spot!

Chuck0matic
12-21-2009, 11:05 PM
Looks like you guys made some waves in the press corps.

http://www.sigonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/21/folks-line-up-to-swap-guns-for-groceires/

Nice Quote Nate!

bodger
12-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Well, I'm sure the community is relieved that the old flintlock that got turned in is off the street and won't be used in a violent gun crime.

Probably only worth $50 anyway.

What a ridiculous anti-gun farce.

Theseus
12-21-2009, 11:44 PM
I don't want to thread jack, but I was thinking about a Gun Relief For Needy Families. . . we give hi-points to families that can't otherwise afford a gun, permitted they don't sell or transfer the gun for 5 years.

ugimports
12-22-2009, 1:02 AM
That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Edit: Channel Ten

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.

I just sent this request to CA DOJ:


Are there exemptions to the Gun Free School Zone of PC 626.9 when school is not in session? If there is a knowing violation of this who do I report this to?

There was a gun buy back program recently in San Diego where it was knowingly held < 1000 feet away from a School Zone. The local PD said that all of the patrons returning guns during this buy back were exempt from violating PC 626.9 since school was not in session. I would like clarification so that I can inform customers of mine that are near school zone areas. Additionally, several individuals were not transporting their firearms legally and were not charged (photo documentation shows). Is there another exemption to the transportation requirements of firearms that occurs during a gun buy back that I should notify my customers of as well?


I'll let you know if they send me a response.

bigcalidave
12-22-2009, 1:37 AM
I don't want to thread jack, but I was thinking about a Gun Relief For Needy Families. . . we give hi-points to families that can't otherwise afford a gun, permitted they don't sell or transfer the gun for 5 years.

I ****ing love this idea... Very public, "Calguns Foundation Defending the Needy" The non profit organization Calguns has issued a press release announcing a special program available for low income California families. If you qualify for the program and are otherwise unarmed and unable to defend your family please contact your local Calguns administrator to apply. Program participants will receive One 9mm Semi Automatic pistol, 100 rounds of JHP Self defense ammunition, and two free training sessions at a local range.


Ha...

BigDogatPlay
12-22-2009, 8:50 AM
From the linked article...

Have they ever been to a death scene?” said the interfaith group’s executive director Robert Tambuzi, referring to the protesters. “Have they ever known someone who was shot by needless gun violence?”

Yes, I have. On both accounts. FWIW, the person who shot and killed the deputy I knew walked away scot free after trial. Guilty as hell... free as a bird.

And the gun buy back is still a stoooopid idea because it really doesn't do a single thing to "get guns off the streets". It makes the proponents feel good, and little more.

ETA: Very nice score on that shotgun Nate. Looks like a beaut, and it would be a shame to see that go into the smelter.

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 9:46 AM
Is this the same man who later came back and sold the gun for $200???

Yep, he ended up coming back later.

I am taking the gun trap shooting tomorrow night, methinks :)

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 9:48 AM
BTW, I can't remember if I posted this already but hey, this is the internetz... I got evidence of FOUR separate 626.9 violations and the HQ video is en route to CGF right now. Two day priority for $1.7!

The Director
12-22-2009, 10:02 AM
Dude...what's up with those guys with revolvers in paper bags in the passenger compartment!

They should nail their asses hard!

The Director
12-22-2009, 10:02 AM
BTW, I can't remember if I posted this already but hey, this is the internetz... I got evidence of FOUR separate 626.9 violations and the HQ video is en route to CGF right now. Two day priority for $1.7!

Great job by the way. You made us proud.

ugimports
12-22-2009, 10:14 AM
BTW, I can't remember if I posted this already but hey, this is the internetz... I got evidence of FOUR separate 626.9 violations and the HQ video is en route to CGF right now. Two day priority for $1.7!

Take this data point with a grain of salt, but I called in to the DOJ asking about the gun free school zone and the person that answered the phone said "If the police are ok with it being close to a school zone, that's fine." To which I replied "so that Police have discretion on whether or not they enforce the Gun Free School Zone regulations/laws"... Response: "Uhh...yeah, as long as the police are ok with it shouldn't be an issue.."

My call was made with the pretext of "I have a customer asking if it's ok to return his firearm during a police sponsored gun buy back program when he knows that it is within 1000 feet of a school zone. is that ok?"

Just a data point I called in to collect. I'd be curious if the answer remained the same if more people kept calling. If you're interested the general DOJ number to inquire about such things is:

916-263-4887

You don't have to be an FFL to call as I didn't identify myself/company at all. I just started asking the question.

I'm going to give the Fed level a call to see if I can get the same answer.
EDIT: I just called. I thought the Gun Free School Zone issue was a federal one, not state? The person I spoke to said it was a state law. So, calling fed level didn't help me get any additional answers.

AEC1
12-22-2009, 10:21 AM
This is amazing. We have come so far since I joined. Nate you are the man. I wish I was able to get off work yesterday and go out and support you.

A side note I cant wait till we can go back to El Indio and have a lunch again, without telling the police about it first... Soon my friends soon.

NorCalMama
12-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Yep, he ended up coming back later.

I am taking the gun trap shooting tomorrow night, methinks :)

Nice! I love how the news story leaves out the outcome and makes it sound like he left, with no sale! Typical spin! :rolleyes:
btw-what a nice gun you got! :)

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 10:27 AM
Nice! I love how the news story leaves out the outcome and makes it sound like he left, with no sale! Typical spin! :rolleyes:
btw-what a nice gun you got! :)

To be fair, he came back long after this reporter had left, so she really didn't know.

Speaking of the reporter, did you all notice the multiple grammatical errors? Hehe.

Thanks for all the support guys, it means a lot!

Shane916
12-22-2009, 10:42 AM
Thank god criminals won't be able to pull off anymore drive-by's with SxS's and flintlocks. You guys should feel very safe now :p

caoboy
12-22-2009, 10:49 AM
Next time that happens, when you go in and try to score some C&R guns, bring an old rusty receiver that has no use, and wait to turn it in.

That way, they can't say you have no reason to be there.

JDoe
12-22-2009, 11:00 AM
BTW, I can't remember if I posted this already but hey, this is the internetz... I got evidence of FOUR separate 626.9 violations and the HQ video is en route to CGF right now. Two day priority for $1.7!

Excellent!

Take this data point with a grain of salt, but I called in to the DOJ asking about the gun free school zone and the person that answered the phone said "If the police are ok with it being close to a school zone, that's fine." To which I replied "so that Police have discretion on whether or not they enforce the Gun Free School Zone regulations/laws"... Response: "Uhh...yeah, as long as the police are ok with it shouldn't be an issue..

Unless that person happens to be a Sheriff and then they "shall arrest" thanks to Librarian see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3523731&postcount=7

Theseus
12-22-2009, 11:11 AM
The part that I think is the most interesting is how hundreds of guns in a school zone is OK, but one person carrying while doing laundry. . . well. . . I was probably a better shot. . . who knows.

AMDG
12-22-2009, 11:16 AM
We should come up with fliers to pass out at these.

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 11:27 AM
Excellent!



Unless that person happens to be a Sheriff and then they "shall arrest" thanks to Librarian see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3523731&postcount=7

The Chief of Police was there, does that count?

kf6tac
12-22-2009, 11:49 AM
EDIT: I just called. I thought the Gun Free School Zone issue was a federal one, not state? The person I spoke to said it was a state law. So, calling fed level didn't help me get any additional answers.

Technically, it's both. 18 USC 922(q) is the federal Gun Free School Zones law, but I'm sure it's probably pretty low on the feds' enforcement priorities list where there's already a state law in place.

Edward Peruta
12-22-2009, 1:11 PM
Here is the picture of the San Diego Police Chief's presence at the event.

The Chief of Police was there, does that count?

Edward Peruta
12-22-2009, 1:23 PM
I have been contacted by Asst. Chief Zimmerman and she has informed me that I will be contacted by a Lt. and provided access to the weapons collected so that I may take photographs. I am particularly interested in the "Antique Flintlock Rifle" and the handguns.

I believe that I will also be provided an inventory type list of the weapons collected by Make and Model.

The issue of whether or not my Media Credentials were honored by San Diego Police at the scene is verified by the fact that I was allowed to stay.

I did not shoot any video because Nate was filming the event.

More to follow when I have more to add.

I need to let everyone know that I was there observing as a member of the Media, and could NOT participate in the acivities regardless of my personal feelings. I was somewhat amazed that they asked for my comments and opinions. The comment about the value of weapons to those in need of money for basics seems verified by the comments in the Uniion Tribune article and the fact that the Flintlock was surrendered for $50.00.

I hope to get a copy of the video in the near future.

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 1:33 PM
I have been contacted by Asst. Chief Zimmerman and she has informed me that I will be contacted by a Lt. and provided access to the weapons collected so that I may take photographs. I am particularly interested in the "Antique Flintlock Rifle" and the handguns.

I believe that I will also be provided an inventory type list of the weapons collected by Make and Model.

The issue of whether or not my Media Credentials were honored by San Diego Police at the scene is verified by the fact that I was allowed to stay.

I did not shoot any video because Nate was filming the event.

More to follow when I have more to add.

I need to let everyone know that I was there observing as a member of the Media, and could NOT participate in the acivities regardless of my personal feelings. I was somewhat amazed that they asked for my comments and opinions. The comment about the value of weapons to those in need of money for basics seems verified by the comments in the Uniion Tribune article and the fact that the Flintlock was surrendered for $50.00.

I hope to get a copy of the video in the near future.

You are the man! I can't wait to see what these "criminal guns" look like. I commented on the video that watching these pieces of art being taken away is like watching puppies being slaughtered. :(

PM inbound with a link to the video.

inbox485
12-22-2009, 2:34 PM
It says ANY PERSON. You're a lawyer, argue both sides of that. Can ANY PERSON mean ALL PEOPLE? Or does it mean each and every person.

It doesn't take a lawyer. If the superintendent says that anybody may have a firearm within 1000 feet of any of his schools during a gun grab program, and puts it in writing, is there "any person" that does not have written permission?

The law does not require that the permission be per person or that any particular person have the written permission in their possession.

inbox485
12-22-2009, 2:39 PM
The part that I think is the most interesting is how hundreds of guns in a school zone is OK, but one person carrying while doing laundry. . . well. . . I was probably a better shot. . . who knows.

It's too bad I couldn't be there. I would have loved it.

All I can say is I hope either voids the judgement against you or aids you in any civil suit you pursue after appeals are done.

JDoe
12-22-2009, 3:16 PM
The Chief of Police was there, does that count?

According to what Librarian says, the Chief of Police may arrest but if a Sheriff was there then the Sheriff shall arrest.

BigDogatPlay
12-22-2009, 8:23 PM
According to what Librarian says, the Chief of Police may arrest but if a Sheriff was there then the Sheriff shall arrest.

The Chief of Police of a municipality is a CLEO, yes, but is not the same as the Sheriff of a county in many respects. In operation of law as the constitutional officer charged with enforcing the orders of the local court, and as an elected official, the Sheriff bears considerably more duties and responsibilities. And there are some wrinkles in the law, such as has been outlined here, where they (and by derivation their deputies) must do things that a local CLEO and his/her deputies (officers) may have discretion in doing.

What would have been choice is if it could be determined whether or not any San Diego Sheriff's deputies were present or participating. Were that the case......

Pig Rifle
12-22-2009, 8:35 PM
FWIW, the Sheriffs handle every G4G I've seen in my area.....

inbox485
12-22-2009, 8:56 PM
FWIW, the Sheriffs handle every G4G I've seen in my area.....

I thought maybe I was just out of touch so I Googled G4G and got:

- Gather for Gardner
- Gift for Gift
- Gearing up for Gorillas
- Girls for Girls

To what G4G are you referring?

Pig Rifle
12-22-2009, 9:37 PM
Gifts for Guns, but to be honest the girls for girls idea sounds hot.:drool5:

zatoh
12-22-2009, 9:59 PM
You said "gun show". Did you got this at a buyback? Your brass balls are showing again.;)
I busted out a brand NEW pair of LAPG pants, just for this occasion :)

Here is a pic of what I managed to save from the gun show. C&R eligible at EXACTLY 50yrs old. I offered him 150 initially then broke down and told him the it was worth about 500 and that he should sell it privately. He went to SoCalGun but they wouldn't buy it because they already have too many guns (GASP!) and so he drove all the way back to offer it to me for 200 bucks and so I took it for the greater good :)

This is actually my favorite shotgun ever. I had one that I used and was going to buy from my brother when I was younger but my brother sold it before I could get the money together. That shotgun gave me the idea for my screen name as I was really into trap a while back. Now, I have my trap gun back! :)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/pullnshoot25/100_2840.jpg

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 10:09 PM
So check this out...

The joker that organized that gun buyback helped impart a municipal code ordinance that is little-known and unenforced. I will see if you guys can catch it...

http://www.smartvoter.org/2002/03/05/ca/sd/vote/tambuzi_r/bio.html

pullnshoot25
12-22-2009, 10:14 PM
You said "gun show". Did you got this at a buyback? Your brass balls are showing again.;)

Whoops, that was a Freudian slip there! Yes, I did get this gun at the buyback. Totally legit as well, BTW :)

I am working on turning the brass into tungsten :)

bigcalidave
12-22-2009, 10:15 PM
You are probably talking about the trigger locks, but WTF is Pay Phone Proliferation Ordinance
???
I'm amused by his resume.

jdberger
12-22-2009, 10:30 PM
So check this out...

The joker that organized that gun buyback helped impart a municipal code ordinance that is little-known and unenforced. I will see if you guys can catch it...

http://www.smartvoter.org/2002/03/05/ca/sd/vote/tambuzi_r/bio.html

Worked to create the Public Lighting Ordinance, which replaces the dull low-sodium street light with high-sodium light, making our streets safer at night

Not a fan of energy efficiency, eh? SWMBO (who has knowledge about such things) says that he should have gone with metal halide.

When I see a public official advocate for a certain product, I start thinking "kickback".

Pig Rifle
12-22-2009, 11:08 PM
I noticed the trigger lock thing, which is disgusting but not surprising.

nick
12-22-2009, 11:16 PM
From the linked article...



Yes, I have. On both accounts. FWIW, the person who shot and killed the deputy I knew walked away scot free after trial. Guilty as hell... free as a bird.

And the gun buy back is still a stoooopid idea because it really doesn't do a single thing to "get guns off the streets". It makes the proponents feel good, and little more.

ETA: Very nice score on that shotgun Nate. Looks like a beaut, and it would be a shame to see that go into the smelter.

Well, this blaming of an inanimate object for the crimes committed by people is the same kind of underdeveloped mentality that demanded burning witches and their familiars. A lot of people think that they're different from those from 300 years ago, but people don't really change, only the technology does.

Maybe we can stage a ceremonial annual burning of a gun on a stake to keep them happy and to show how ridiculous their ideas are.

nick
12-22-2009, 11:30 PM
You are probably talking about the trigger locks, but WTF is
???
I'm amused by his resume.

It probably have to do with putting more payphones in the neighborhoods with few cell phones and landlines? Which is funny, for every time I drive by the welfare office, I don't see anyone there without a cell phone.

Then again, payphones are probably pretty useful for drug dealing.

snobord99
12-22-2009, 11:35 PM
Has anyone considered arranging a knife buyback just to demonstrate how ridiculous the guy buyback concept is?

bigcalidave
12-23-2009, 12:02 AM
I'd like to see a vote buyback, where everyone who voted for arnold and obama can show how they have CHANGED THEIR MINDS!

Untamed1972
12-23-2009, 7:28 AM
So, i can walk within 1000 feet of a school when school is not in session? Cant wait for summer vacation.

Book em



so wouldn't that mean then that evenings and weekends when no kids are at school would count too? Wasn't Thesus first contacted by the LEOs at night in the laundrymat?

bodger
12-23-2009, 7:55 AM
I'd like to see a vote buyback, where everyone who voted for arnold and obama can show how they have CHANGED THEIR MINDS!


And get a $50 gift certificate redeemable at any CA gun shop! :D

pullnshoot25
12-23-2009, 9:02 AM
Has anyone considered arranging a knife buyback just to demonstrate how ridiculous the guy buyback concept is?

We mentioned knives to this Tambuzi character and he said "yeah, we will take those too." I half-hoped he would make a move for mine.

Speaking of which, the CS Vaquero 6" is a SWEEEEEET knife. I am itching for one. Sam just bought one, so badass!

so wouldn't that mean then that evenings and weekends when no kids are at school would count too? Wasn't Thesus first contacted by the LEOs at night in the laundrymat?

This is the problem EXACTLY! Peruta grilled them on this and they basically said "we can show discretion" :eek: (WRONG!)

May 626.9 die a fiery death!

inbox485
12-23-2009, 9:10 AM
Excellent!



Unless that person happens to be a Sheriff and then they "shall arrest" thanks to Librarian see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3523731&postcount=7

Either way I would think the discriminatory enforcement of using the law against one class of citizens (UOCers) while looking the other way for another class (victim disarmers) would raise constitutional issues for anybody convicted.

inbox485
12-23-2009, 9:14 AM
Gifts for Guns, but to be honest the girls for girls idea sounds hot.:drool5:

Well unfortunately for you, it is for girls.

CitaDeL
12-23-2009, 9:48 AM
Either way I would think the discriminatory enforcement of using the law against one class of citizens (UOCers) while looking the other way for another class (victim disarmers) would raise constitutional issues for anybody convicted.

Bingo.

pullnshoot25
12-23-2009, 4:38 PM
I just got the preliminary stats for the gun buyback, there will be a spreadsheet posted in a few days with the make and model of each firearm submitted for destruction. The figures below are tentative, as there may be weapons submitted that were ineligible

105 weapons came to the buyback
Only 104 got destroyed (I got the missing one, SUCKA!)
63 were long guns and 42 were handguns (only 62 long guns got destroyed)

None of the guns were "assault weapons."

There was no flintlock rifle (it was a percussion blackpowder, make unknown)

The Union Tribune severely inflated their figures.

The guns are already packaged for destruction so getting photos is not a viable option.

The cops know that my badass shotgun got away and that the amount paid was 4x what was offered at the buyback. This *MAY* (emphasis on the MAY) get our foot in the door for future buybacks so we can give honest appraisals or outright buy the weapons instead of having them destroyed.

The cops are cognizant of the legal issues surrounding the buyback. This should prove interesting, to say the least.

That is all I have for now. Stay tuned, this is going to get interesting in the months ahead!

MonsterMan
12-23-2009, 5:17 PM
You guys are my heroes. :)

That is awesome you bought that shotgun from that guy. All of those people just throwing their guns away for a gift certificate. Makes me sad.

woodey
12-23-2009, 7:01 PM
Has anyone considered arranging a knife buyback just to demonstrate how ridiculous the guy buyback concept is?

How about a used PORN buy back program to help get sex offenders off the street, I was done withit any way :D

Edward Peruta
12-23-2009, 7:11 PM
UPDATE:

(San Diego - ANIS - Ed Peruta), The Gift Card for Guns event held in San Diego on December 21, 2009, resulted in 104 total firearms being surrendered by members of the public, and resulted in one firearm being saved by a private sale/purchase.

Of the 104 firearms surrendered, 62 were long guns and 42 were handguns.

Contrary to published reports in the main stream media, San Diego Police have confirmed that there WAS NOT an Antique Flintlock Rifle surrendered at this event. Law Enforcement has provided intormation that the weapon was a percussion cap Black Powder Rifle.

San Diego Police have also stated and confirmed that NO assault type weapons were turned in which leaves me to believe that NO $100.00 gift cards were given out.

San Diego will be providing a spread sheet of the make and model of each firearm surrendered. On advice of legal, the serial numbers will NOT be included in the inventory which will prevent establishing the manufacture date or age of each weapon By NOT releasing serial numbers, a previous owner may never know what happened to the weapon and the public will NEVER have the oppurtunity to know for sure that the weapons were destroyed.
Based on the math, 102 X $50.00 per person, a maximum of $5,100.00 was given to those who surrendered their weapons. This figure may be less if any individuals surrendered more than one firearm and only received one $50.00 gift card.

This event and the fact that members of the public attended, asked questions and attempted to educate members fo the public on the value of the weapons may in some small fashion cause others to rethink any future planning of these type events.

The one remaining question concerning many is what happens to the financial donations and gift cards collected and not expended for this event?
Hopefully officials in San Diego and elsewhere will consider ALL factors before approving, supporting or participating in events of this type held in Gun Free School Zones or on private property.

The various individuals who have expressed opinions on this event should request proper notice of any future events together with participation ON PUBLIC PROPERTY?

Informed sources have made it known that this type of event may be sponsored or supported by Pro Firearm individuals or groups as a means of preserving legal firearms from needless destruction.

Pro Firearm advocates believe that legal weapons acquired in this manner may be recycled and made available at reduced prices to individuals who cannot afford to purchase firearms for self defense through normal means.

bigcalidave
12-23-2009, 7:25 PM
Yes!!! Better ideas every day!! CGF Sponsored gun "buyback" or "donation" program, where people can donate guns they no longer want or need, our volunteers can clean check and test the guns, then they can be distributed through the "guns for the needy" program !!!!

JDoe
12-23-2009, 8:24 PM
Based on the math, 102 X $50.00 per person, a maximum of $5,100.00 was given to those who surrendered their weapons.

How much did the tax payer pay for this exercise or did all those LEOs and high officials work for free?

pullnshoot25
12-23-2009, 8:37 PM
How much did the tax payer pay for this exercise or did all those LEOs and high officials work for free?

I am figuring that it is about 500 per person. That is just going on hearsay and averages from when Zimmerman felt it necessary to have a ton of cops patrol Mission Beach when we had our OC meet a while ago.

bodger
12-23-2009, 8:52 PM
Yes!!! Better ideas every day!! CGF Sponsored gun "buyback" or "donation" program, where people can donate guns they no longer want or need, our volunteers can clean check and test the guns, then they can be distributed through the "guns for the needy" program !!!!


I like the concept, but if one of those "Guns For Needy" guns ends up being used in a crime, or a suicide, ( I guess that's technically a crime too) the antis will be all over it. It will be compared to the police buy-back policy of destroying all the weapons

I'm just saying, it's bound to come up.

Theseus
12-23-2009, 9:32 PM
And when we try and show that someone was made a victim of violent crime after they surrendered their guns what would they say?

"It is unfortunate, but we aren't responsible. . . we will do everything we can to bring the criminal to justice. Oh, and another buyback next week!"

bodger
12-23-2009, 10:00 PM
And when we try and show that someone was made a victim of violent crime after they surrendered their guns what would they say?

"It is unfortunate, but we aren't responsible. . . we will do everything we can to bring the criminal to justice. Oh, and another buyback next week!"


Yeah, they'll spin it their way.

The video of the people surrendering their guns was pretty interesting. "I've had it for 20 years, never fired it", etc.

I was picking up a gun at Turner's in Redondo today. A woman came in with a small tin box and when the store worker asked if he could help, she said she wanted to "see if this gun was worth anything".

I was busy signing the docs for my gun so I didn't get a look at what she was trying to sell. But I did hear the clerk tell her that she would be better off just taking it to a gun buyback and getting the $50 for it.

I don't think the box had a lock on it either. This poor lady could have taken a bust on the way to Turner's.

Vectrexer
12-23-2009, 11:01 PM
It's claimed last year for the first buy back (gun exchange) program that 305 guns were collected. A decrease of 201 guns is a good improvement even if any guns collected is not a good thing.

demnogis
12-23-2009, 11:04 PM
Sorry to interject but who in their right mind pays for porn?! :eek:

How about a used PORN buy back program to help get sex offenders off the street, I was done withit any way :D

Werewolf1021
12-23-2009, 11:11 PM
Sorry to interject but who in their right mind pays for porn?! :eek:

Especially when the internet is for porn...

Racefiend
12-23-2009, 11:15 PM
It's claimed last year for the first buy back (gun exchange) program that 305 guns were collected. A decrease of 201 guns is a good improvement even if any guns collected is not a good thing.

Thats because previous gun buybacks have been so successful that there are fewer guns left on the street to be turned in :p

HUTCH 7.62
12-23-2009, 11:15 PM
Especially when the internet is for porn...


using the internet for other than porn would be a waste of resources:rolleyes:

pullnshoot25
12-23-2009, 11:30 PM
using the internet for other than porn would be a waste of resources:rolleyes:

Sure looks like I have been not using the internet to its full potential....

Pig Rifle
12-23-2009, 11:46 PM
08'Christmas Season was the most successful yet for L.A. County I believe.:mad:

TheBundo
12-25-2009, 7:53 PM
That other guy with the camera was 'real media'. Edit: Channel Ten

I have not confirmed this, but Edward Peruta from OCDO commented that the PD claimed the school zone thing was a non issue as it is currently winter break and the school is not in session.

Hilarious. They enforce it 24/7/365

SteveH
12-26-2009, 7:21 AM
You said "gun show". Did you got this at a buyback? Your brass balls are showing again.;)

Nice save!