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View Full Version : New Stock Concept that turns SB-23 on its head.


shopkeep
12-02-2005, 1:53 PM
OK, so some of you know that I've been brainstorming several ideas (some new, others not so new) to take the unamed AR-15 and AK-47 recievers to the next level (no "pistol grip" so detachable magazines can be used). So far I've come up with using the old "Tumor Stock" on an unamed AR-15 reciever and then today I get thinking:

What about a traditional looking rifle stock (such as on the M-1A for example) that included a FOLDING pistol grip. The pistol grip folds down so that the rifle can be held WITH _AND_ WITHOUT the grip. Therefore it only falls under the "Has the capacity to accept a pistol grip" which is legal according the DOJ following the confiscation (and subsequent return) of Robinson Arms M-96 rifles with thumb studs but NO pistol grips (therefore capacity to accept a pistol grip).

So this brings us to asking is the stock therefore legal because it can be grasped WITHOUT a pistol grip but _COULD_ also be grasped with a pistol grip if it is folded down?

C.G.
12-02-2005, 2:12 PM
OK, so some of you know that I've been brainstorming several ideas (some new, others not so new) to take the unamed AR-15 and AK-47 recievers to the next level (no "pistol grip" so detachable magazines can be used). So far I've come up with using the old "Tumor Stock" on an unamed AR-15 reciever and then today I get thinking:

What about a traditional looking rifle stock (such as on the M-1A for example) that included a FOLDING pistol grip. The pistol grip folds down so that the rifle can be held WITH _AND_ WITHOUT the grip. Therefore it only falls under the "Has the capacity to accept a pistol grip" which is legal according the DOJ following the confiscation (and subsequent return) of Robinson Arms M-96 rifles with thumb studs but NO pistol grips (therefore capacity to accept a pistol grip).

So this brings us to asking is the stock therefore legal because it can be grasped WITHOUT a pistol grip but _COULD_ also be grasped with a pistol grip if it is folded down?

Huh?:confused: I am not sure I am following here, but folding pistol grip is still a pistol grip.
It is wonderful to have ideas, but let's not push it too far, we have yet to get the receivers. The idea is that if they eventually declare them AWs then you could have just about anything you want, short of grenade launchers.

tenpercentfirearms
12-02-2005, 3:36 PM
I don't get it. Anything that "protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" is a pistol grip. Period, end of story. A folding pistol grip by the simple definition of the word is a "pistol grip" and I wouldn't buy one. Also, you are confusing the language. Lets look at it specifically.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.It doesn't have to "have the capacity to accept the pistol grip" as your erroneously state, it just has to have one. If having the capacity to accept a pistol grip were the rule, then we couldn't have any type of AR series rifles in the state period, with or without a pistol grip. Thankfully it just says "and any one of the following."

Just screw a stinking 10 round magazine to it and pray they put it on the list. Why is getting as close as possible to a felony a good thing? Take the pistol grip off, make it a safe queen and if the world turns upside down, do what you have to do. Otherwise, get over the fact we can't have fully functional ARs and you are going to have to get a SU16 if you want to put those 30 rounders to test.

Anonymous Coward
12-02-2005, 5:59 PM
I don't get it. Anything that "protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" is a pistol grip. Period, end of story. A folding pistol grip by the simple definition of the word is a "pistol grip" and I wouldn't buy one. Also, you are confusing the language. Lets look at it specifically.


If I understand you correctly, in the non-folded configuration the grip would still protude below the action, right?

IMO the law is to be interpreted the same as with folding rilfe stocks. If I remember this right, there's a federal law that a rifle has to be 26 inches overall length (barrel, receiver and stock). If your rifle is 27 inches with the stock unfolded, but less than 26 inches with the stock folded it's illegal.

So it doesn't matter that there's one configuration that's legal.

C.G.
12-02-2005, 6:06 PM
If I understand you correctly, in the non-folded configuration the grip would still protude below the action, right?

IMO the law is to be interpreted the same as with folding rilfe stocks. If I remember this right, there's a federal law that a rifle has to be 26 inches overall length (barrel, receiver and stock). If your rifle is 27 inches with the stock unfolded, but less than 26 inches with the stock folded it's illegal.

So it doesn't matter that there's one configuration that's legal.

Actually it is 30" for semi-auto.

eviioiive
12-03-2005, 11:41 AM
26" min for rifles and shotguns
18" barrel min for shotguns
16" barrel min for rifles
If either has a folding stock and its designed to be used with the stock un folded, it can be under 26" in the folded position

magsnubby
12-05-2005, 3:43 PM
So this brings us to asking is the stock therefore legal because it can be grasped WITHOUT a pistol grip but _COULD_ also be grasped with a pistol grip if it is folded down?

I wanna see the look on the DOJ agent's face that tries to answer that letter. It should be priceless. I still like your rail idea also.

6172crew
12-05-2005, 4:20 PM
Why not just sew a pistol grip into a glove and have it slip on and off.:cool:

shopkeep
12-05-2005, 4:34 PM
Actually I was starting to think... why not bolt a rail to the pistol grip area and then you could install one in NV or fire the rifle without in CA.

shopkeep
12-05-2005, 6:28 PM
I wasn't talking about AR-15 pattern rifles (which are designed to have a pistol grip installed on the lower to hold retaining pin). I was talking about AKs.