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jdberger
12-18-2009, 2:55 PM
So I was chatting with one of my colleagues and somehow the subject of my EDC came up….

We discussed knife laws, she was gently teasing me about my knowledge and I (completely serious because I am without mirth) suggested that the laws are convoluted and it’s good to know them in order to avoid unintentional violations.

Like, for instance, bringing in a kitchen knife to a grade school to cut a birthday cake….

She responded that any knife she’d bring to a grade school would be compostable and she doubted that anything made of potatoes could be considered a weapon.

So - could a compostable knife (http://letsgogreen.biz/pages/utensils/spudware.html)be considered a weapon under 626.10?


626.10. (a) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade, a taser, or a stun gun, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 244.5, any instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun, upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. [Ed. Note: This is the paragraph dealing with legal carry on K-12 school grounds. Note that folding lockblades bigger than 2.5" are banned. This applies to any adult on campus; there are exceptions for work-related stuff in part "C" through "G" below.]

(b) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, the University of California, the California State University, or the California Community Colleges is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. [Ed. Note: This paragraph covers colleges and universities. There is still a ban on large fixed-blades, but large locking folders legal under Penal Code 653k are completely legal. This applies to any adult age 18 or over on campus, student or otherwise; there are exceptions for work-related stuff in part "C" through "G" below.]

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) do not apply to any person who brings or possesses a knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches or a razor with an unguarded blade upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or any private university, state university, or community college at the direction of a faculty member of the private university, state university, or community college, or a certificated or classified employee of the school for use in a private university, state university, community college, or school-sponsored activity or class.

(d) Subdivisions (a) and (b) do not apply to any person who brings or possesses an ice pick, a knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, or a razor with an unguarded blade upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or any private university, state university, or community college for a lawful purpose within the scope of the person's employment.

(e) Subdivision (b) does not apply to any person who brings or possesses an ice pick or a knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, state university, or community college for lawful use in or around a residence or residential facility located upon those grounds or for lawful use in food preparation or consumption.

(f) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any person who brings an instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, if the person has the written permission of the school principal or his or her designee.

(g) Any certificated or classified employee or school peace officer of a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, may seize any of the weapons described in subdivision (a), and any certificated or classified employee or school peace officer of any private university, state university, or community college may seize any of the weapons described in subdivision (b), from the possession of any person upon the grounds of, or within, the school if he or she knows, or has reasonable cause to know, the person is prohibited from bringing or possessing the weapon upon the grounds of, or within, the school.

The Director
12-18-2009, 3:24 PM
Did you bump your head?

jdberger
12-18-2009, 4:10 PM
When is a knife not a knife?

The Director
12-18-2009, 4:32 PM
Probably not a knife if it is made from a potato. That's my best guess.:rolleyes:

Nose Nuggets
12-18-2009, 5:43 PM
Probably not a knife if it is made from a potato. That's my best guess.:rolleyes:

are materials specifically sited in the code? what if its part potato, part steel? what if its 100% ceramic. what if its carbon-composite? what if they shoot frickin laser beams from their heads?

The Director
12-18-2009, 6:22 PM
are materials specifically sited in the code? what if its part potato, part steel? what if its 100% ceramic. what if its carbon-composite? what if they shoot frickin laser beams from their heads?

:laugh:

You kill me, man.

Turo
12-18-2009, 6:30 PM
I would assume a knife would be defined by the law as something similar to this:
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

So if you could take that potato knife and stab someone with it and "inflict great bodily injury or death" it would probably be safe to assume that the judge will say it's a knife.

That said, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a knife made out of potatoes...

EDR
12-18-2009, 6:48 PM
This is probably a really stupid question but if I'm reading this correctly I would need to leave my Kershaw in the car whenever I take my kid to school, right?

Cokebottle
12-18-2009, 6:59 PM
This is probably a really stupid question but if I'm reading this correctly I would need to leave my Kershaw in the car whenever I take my kid to school, right?
Yes, and probably not even in the car if you are on campus property.

For the OP, would permission from the superintendent not legalize it?

If anything, the compostable knife might even get someone into more trouble because it's an evil terrorist style knife that was designed to bypass metal detectors just like the Glock 9 :eek:

spddrcr
12-19-2009, 1:19 AM
the principle of my 2 sons school actually asked me about my rather large karambit that was noticable due to the ring on the end protruding from my pocket. I told her it was for self defense. she asked me why i would need to defend myself against grade schoolers to which i replied have you ever tried to take on 10 4th graders at one time?

she kinda chuckled about it and told me that if anyone asked about it that she ok'ed me to have it on campus:D

five.five-six
12-19-2009, 1:30 AM
if its part potato, part steel? what if its 100% ceramic. what if its carbon-composite? what if they shoot frickin laser beams from their heads?

thanks for the new sig

jdberger
12-19-2009, 1:30 AM
I would assume a knife would be defined by the law as something similar to this:


So if you could take that potato knife and stab someone with it and "inflict great bodily injury or death" it would probably be safe to assume that the judge will say it's a knife.

That said, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a knife made out of potatoes...

Check the link in the OP.

They're pretty strange. The actually *cut* better than the usual plastic knives because they are more rigid. But they do start to break down after an hour or so when exposed to liquids (don't forget your compostable spoon in your hot soup or coffee).

Meplat
12-19-2009, 1:38 AM
You can be tossed out of a lot schools for drawing a picture of a knife, or having a rubber play knife. If your friend actually uses utensils made of vegetable starch she is a hopeless ecofreak anyway. :TFH:



So I was chatting with one of my colleagues and somehow the subject of my EDC came up….

We discussed knife laws, she was gently teasing me about my knowledge and I (completely serious because I am without mirth) suggested that the laws are convoluted and it’s good to know them in order to avoid unintentional violations.

Like, for instance, bringing in a kitchen knife to a grade school to cut a birthday cake….

She responded that any knife she’d bring to a grade school would be compostable and she doubted that anything made of potatoes could be considered a weapon.

So - could a compostable knife (http://letsgogreen.biz/pages/utensils/spudware.html)be considered a weapon under 626.10?

paratroop
12-27-2009, 2:09 AM
If anything, the compostable knife might even get someone into more trouble because it's an evil terrorist style knife that was designed to bypass metal detectors just like the Glock 9 :eek:

"glock 9", noooooooo! ive been saying "glock 7". man i cant even get my psuedo-imaginary-assualt-terrorist-cop-killing-death-dealers names in order. i guess ill just stick with icicles, stabby stabby.

ALSystems
12-27-2009, 4:35 AM
You can be tossed out of a lot schools for drawing a picture of a knife, or having a rubber play knife. If your friend actually uses utensils made of vegetable starch she is a hopeless ecofreak anyway. :TFH:
Just about everything is considered a weapon these days.

Here is a link to a summary of CA knife laws:
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html#SECTION%20TWO

SteveH
12-27-2009, 3:55 PM
This is probably a really stupid question but if I'm reading this correctly I would need to leave my Kershaw in the car whenever I take my kid to school, right?

All lock blade knifes are illegal on K-12 school grounds. Folding knives over 2.5 inches are also illegal there. Effective Jan 1, 2010 box cutters and razor blades are illegal on school grounds.

zeleny
12-27-2009, 10:16 PM
So I was chatting with one of my colleagues and somehow the subject of my EDC came up….

We discussed knife laws, she was gently teasing me about my knowledge and I (completely serious because I am without mirth) suggested that the laws are convoluted and it’s good to know them in order to avoid unintentional violations.

Like, for instance, bringing in a kitchen knife to a grade school to cut a birthday cake….?Please note that P.C. 626.10 subdivision (e) exempts knives carried "for lawful use in food preparation or consumption" from sanctions under subdivision (b). Yes, I have tested this in court with a Randall #14 that I claimed to have used at UCLA to cut a roast chicken.

383green
12-27-2009, 11:20 PM
My Benchmade folder was pressed into service to cut birthday cake at work once.

It was a real PITA to clean all of that cake goo out of it afterwards, though.

Cali-V
12-27-2009, 11:42 PM
In any case the charges won't hold...
Just before you get hauled away, dip the weapon in water...
Hell in a week and a half... there's nothing but mashed potatoes...

"If the knife don't stick, you can't ___________"

wildhawker
12-28-2009, 12:08 AM
Please note that P.C. 626.10 subdivision (e) exempts knives carried "for lawful use in food preparation or consumption" from sanctions under subdivision (b). Yes, I have tested this in court with a Randall #14 that I claimed to have used at UCLA to cut a roast chicken.

Given that (e) goes to intent, it seems quite reasonable to maintain a knife on your person at all times for the purposes of food preparation. One never knows when a bout of low blood sugar might lead to a well-sliced candy bar.

k1f4a0aqu1o

zeleny
12-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Given that (e) goes to intent, it seems quite reasonable to maintain a knife on your person at all times for the purposes of food preparation. One never knows when a bout of low blood sugar might lead to a well-sliced candy bar.

k1f4a0aqu1oMy point exactly. The prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your knives were not carried "for lawful use in food preparation or consumption". In my case, the state punted. I got my knives back from the UCLA Police Department, too.

koxx.dta
03-12-2010, 3:11 AM
When is a knife not a knife?

when you're hangin out with Crocodile Dundee

BlindRacer
03-12-2010, 11:13 AM
Since this old post was brought back, I thought I'd use it.

Just to double check from a few posts ago...my 3" folding lockable edc knife is illegal to carry on school grounds??? What about the 1000 foot crap?

What is the penalty for it? Do I loose all my gun rights for 10 years? Or am I going to loose my knife rights for 10 years, and have someone come confiscate all my wive's kitchen knives?

I've had my edc knife in my pocket every time I've dropped off and picked up my 2 yo daughter at preschool. It's also a K-8 I believe. Should I not do this? Has anyone actually gotten sentenced/fined/penalized for this?

Cokebottle
03-12-2010, 11:22 AM
Just to double check from a few posts ago...my 3" folding lockable edc knife is illegal to carry on school grounds??? What about the 1000 foot crap?
The 1000ft crap only applies to guns.

MudCamper
03-12-2010, 11:29 AM
Wouldn't a knife made from potatoes be more "evil" than a steel knife because you can easily sneak it through metal detectors at schools, court rooms, and airplanes?

BlindRacer
03-12-2010, 12:00 PM
What about the penalty for a knife on campus? It says up to a year imprisonment! Could that happen? I go to pick up my daughter from preschool, and all of the sudden I'm being hauled off to prison for a year!!??!!

FastFinger
03-12-2010, 12:20 PM
At first I thought this thread had a spelling error in the title - and that this was actually a thread about "CA Knife Laws & Tazers" - Based on that I was going to ignore it because all my knives are legal, and I don't own any tazers.

Fortunately curiosity got the better of me and I opened the thread, only to find out it actually is about "knives and taters"! Thank goodness because that means I can show of my fixed blade spud cuter.

It's not the best example because it has a slight drop point (not my favorite configuration), it's not hollow ground, and there's a bit of spud eye artifact on the blade, but at least its handle has nice potato peel patterning.


http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2743/spud.jpg

dantodd
03-12-2010, 12:36 PM
I can show of my fixed blade spud cuter.


Well, I have to admit, that spud really is cuter than most..

ke6guj
03-12-2010, 12:49 PM
"glock 9", noooooooo! ive been saying "glock 7". man i cant even get my psuedo-imaginary-assualt-terrorist-cop-killing-death-dealers names in order. i guess ill just stick with icicles, stabby stabby.nope, "glock 7" is correct.

yf8sC_1deyM

BlindRacer
03-12-2010, 3:01 PM
What about the penalty for a knife on campus? It says up to a year imprisonment! Could that happen? I go to pick up my daughter from preschool, and all of the sudden I'm being hauled off to prison for a year!!??!!

Anyone?

dantodd
03-12-2010, 3:02 PM
What about the penalty for a knife on campus? It says up to a year imprisonment! Could that happen? I go to pick up my daughter from preschool, and all of the sudden I'm being hauled off to prison for a year!!??!!

Very unlikely but yes, it is a technical violation and you could be prosecuted.

BlindRacer
03-12-2010, 3:10 PM
Do you think that is something that may change post-McDonald? I guess it's a possibility, since you have no reasonable expectation of safety on any school campus. But would a K-12 be considered a sensitive area? Or would it only be things behind screening areas like airports and courthouses?

dantodd
03-12-2010, 3:12 PM
Do you think that is something that may change post-McDonald? I guess it's a possibility, since you have no reasonable expectation of safety on any school campus. But would a K-12 be considered a sensitive area? Or would it only be things behind screening areas like airports and courthouses?

If guns can be legally kept off campus post-incorporation then I can't see an exception being constitutionally required for knives. Since the core right of 2A is defined as self-defense and the handgun is recognized as a primary mechanism of exercising that right once they take away access to a firearm there is really no other self-defense limiting law that would be unconstitutional.

nat
03-12-2010, 3:24 PM
That said, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a knife made out of potatoes...

The cafe at my work uses potato based silverware. It is compostable and works just as well as plastic. I like it better actually.

The plastic cups are made from corn, also compostable.

targetarcher
03-14-2010, 5:21 PM
The cafe at my work uses potato based silverware. It is compostable and works just as well as plastic. I like it better actually.

The plastic cups are made from corn, also compostable.

I'd be interested to see the energy use required to make one of those corn cups; if it's anything like (corn based) ethanol production, it may not be as environmentally friendly as we'd hope.

I'm a big fan of bamboo though- that's a pretty kickass material right there.

And a lot of the good farming land currently going to ethanol production could be freed up if we diversified our ethanol raw material sources- think switchgrass, sugar cane, etc. For example, switchgrass grows well on marginal land (let's say, interstate medians and sides), requires little input, is competitive with weeds, and
for every unit of energy input needed to create a biofuel from switchgrass, four units of energy are yielded.[25] In contrast, corn ethanol yields about 1.28 units of energy per unit of energy input.
[Wang, M., Wu, M., & Huo, H. Life-cycle energy and greenhouse gas emission impacts of different corn ethanol plant types. Environmental Research Letters. Volume 2. 2007. 1-13.].

But mmmm, then we'd have to deal with the corn lobby . . .


Back to the topic, I'm really quite happy with finding (e). True story, I once cooked an entire meal (IIRC, roast chicken, butternut squash, various other stuff too) using large unconventional fixed blades. Ever quartered a chicken with a machete? Also, a shaving sharp hatchet does a remarkable job on butternut squash... and the cutting board too. :rolleyes:

JDay
03-14-2010, 10:40 PM
"glock 9", noooooooo! ive been saying "glock 7". man i cant even get my psuedo-imaginary-assualt-terrorist-cop-killing-death-dealers names in order. i guess ill just stick with icicles, stabby stabby.

Its the Glock 7.

That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. Doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines, here, and it costs more than you make in a month.

koxx.dta
03-14-2010, 10:51 PM
why make a knife out of taters...just shank em with chopsticks
and like the glock 7 it wont show up on metal detector

JDay
03-14-2010, 10:53 PM
I'd be interested to see the energy use required to make one of those corn cups; if it's anything like (corn based) ethanol production, it may not be as environmentally friendly as we'd hope.

It can't possibly be as bad as plastic. Plastic only degrades in sunlight (photodegradation) and all that does is cause it to break into smaller and smaller pieces instead of breaking down into its components. Buried plastic stays in one piece.

motorhead
03-15-2010, 11:23 AM
My Benchmade folder was pressed into service to cut birthday cake at work once.

It was a real PITA to clean all of that cake goo out of it afterwards, though.

we cut our wedding cake with a gerber guardian II. i had it in a shoulder rig under the suit.:43: