PDA

View Full Version : Reinstating gun rights in CA?


M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 12:44 PM
Has anyone here ever had to have their gun rights reinstated? I got charged with battery in 2001( non domestic). Took care of everything, did community service , completed probation and have not been in trouble since. My lawyer is out of town till after Christmas and I will be talking to him about a full dismissal or expungement of said charges. I guess there is a 10 year probation on me, even though It was not a domestic abuse charge. Has anyone ever gotten out of the 10 year probation a few years early? If so, what did you lawyer do? I really don't feel like waiting another 1.5 years to go hunting again. This sucks!

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 12:48 PM
edit- I had no Idea that I was on gun probation until I tried to buy one 2 weeks ago, it got denied .

HAVOC5150
12-17-2009, 12:52 PM
Had a friend get into a fight in high school, about 5 yrs later he went throught the police academy and graduated. Couldn't get a job till 10yrs was up.

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 1:19 PM
Had a friend get into a fight in high school, about 5 yrs later he went throught the police academy and graduated. Couldn't get a job till 10yrs was up.

Wow, thats a bummer.

Vesuviana
12-17-2009, 3:48 PM
Had a friend get into a fight in high school, about 5 yrs later he went throught the police academy and graduated. Couldn't get a job till 10yrs was up.

They do a pretty extensive background check to get in the academy, funny that they didn't see it. On the other hand, a neighbor got caught with a half pound of mexi-weed in the late 70ies or early 80ies in CA. It was a felony. A couple years ago, he bought an over/under shotgun through a gunshop in CA. and passed the background check.

Mayhem
12-17-2009, 3:56 PM
They do a pretty extensive background check to get in the academy, funny that they didn't see it. On the other hand, a neighbor got caught with a half pound of mexi-weed in the late 70ies or early 80ies in CA. It was a felony. A couple years ago, he bought an over/under shotgun through a gunshop in CA. and passed the background check.

Umm I don't think they do one at all unless your already hired and sent to the academy by your hiring agency. If you goto an academy on your own and pay for it out of pocket there is no back ground check.

NorCalMama
12-17-2009, 3:59 PM
Umm I don't think they do one at all unless your already hired and sent to the academy by your hiring agency. If you goto an academy on your own and pay for it out of pocket there is no back ground check.

The police go through DROS and the background/license check just like everyone else, if that's what you're referring to... however, I do know that typically, if there is a problem be it the cop has an invalid license or some sort of criminal history, the DOJ typically lets them go through.

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 4:17 PM
Has anyone heard of someones record getting dismissed and that person getting 2nd amendment rights back?

Rob454
12-17-2009, 6:57 PM
My buddy got a brandishing got probation and went to court and got it all expunged 1 year later

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 7:39 PM
My buddy got a brandishing got probation and went to court and got it all expunged 1 year later

What did he get charged with and did he get his rights back?

sac550
12-17-2009, 7:43 PM
Depends on what penal code sections you pled to? Did you pled guilty and get DEJ? If so the case would have been dismissed upon finishing DEJ. If not then you need to see if you can have it dismissed per 1203.4A. Having it dismissed per 1203.4 WONT restore your gun rights, only 1203.4A.

yellowfin
12-17-2009, 7:50 PM
I'd say first get 2nd Amendment rights to exist in California in the first place...

p7m8jg
12-17-2009, 8:03 PM
Only way I know of is through process of Certificate of Rehab and Pardon.
1203.4 PC to get the case dismissed
then apply for Certificate of Rehab and Pardon
then petition governator for actual pardon.

Hard to get. Waiting ten years is easier...

LiberalGunner
12-17-2009, 8:28 PM
I'm sorry for the inconvenience of not being able to go hunting, but when people in America commit a crime, there are repercussions. If you assaulted someone, I find it hard to find fault with the logic that you might not be the best candidate to carry a loaded firearm. If I could keep ex-cons out of my neighborhood, it would be ideal. At a minimum, keeping them unarmed should be a baseline.

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 8:53 PM
I'm sorry for the inconvenience of not being able to go hunting, but when people in America commit a crime, there are repercussions. If you assaulted someone, I find it hard to find fault with the logic that you might not be the best candidate to carry a loaded firearm. If I could keep ex-cons out of my neighborhood, it would be ideal. At a minimum, keeping them unarmed should be a baseline.

I agree with you.This was years ago, I was drinking with friends and a bar fight broke out. About 20 people got charged that night. I havent had a drink since and havent even j-walked.

LiberalGunner
12-17-2009, 8:57 PM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

M14ROOKIE
12-17-2009, 9:15 PM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

Thank you for the life advice

SoCalDep
12-17-2009, 9:37 PM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

I suppose you lived a perfect life then huh.

I absolutely 100% guarantee that the only difference between you and him right now is maybe which crime and that he got caught and you didn't. I'm pretty darn squeeky clean and I'm not about to go on a public board and mock someone who got a single battery conviction eight and a half years ago and has been law-abiding since and is asking about legal ways to recover his ability to own a gun. My glass house isn't that strong and neither is yours.

Telperion
12-17-2009, 9:38 PM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

Wow, the self-righteousness just oozes...

nagorb
12-17-2009, 9:50 PM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

Do I smell TROLL?

nagorb
12-17-2009, 9:52 PM
DO NOT REPLY TO HIM! He is trying to get a rise out of us.

nagorb
12-17-2009, 9:56 PM
I agree with you.This was years ago, I was drinking with friends and a bar fight broke out. About 20 people got charged that night. I havent had a drink since and havent even j-walked.

I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable members will be along to help you shortly.

416stroker
12-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Has anyone here ever had to have their gun rights reinstated? I got charged with battery in 2001( non domestic). Took care of everything, did community service , completed probation and have not been in trouble since. My lawyer is out of town till after Christmas and I will be talking to him about a full dismissal or expungement of said charges. I guess there is a 10 year probation on me, even though It was not a domestic abuse charge. Has anyone ever gotten out of the 10 year probation a few years early? If so, what did you lawyer do? I really don't feel like waiting another 1.5 years to go hunting again. This sucks!



I had mine returned when I got my probation terminated 1 year after. I had a criminal threats charge after a long drinking night and threatend and tried to start a fight with some one. My advice would be to go make a court date and be like I havent made a mistake in this long and I would like to get it removed. Thats all I did.

But i didnt have the ten year one mine was only 3

LiberalGunner
12-17-2009, 11:50 PM
Do I smell TROLL?

Come on nagorb - address my issues & stop the name calling. Do you feel that someone with a criminal record, documented to be unable to control violent impulses in the past....someone who plead guilty to assault for whatever the reason, should be allowed possession of a weapon? Heck, I wouldn't out the butter knives if I was having him over for dinner.

416stroker
12-17-2009, 11:59 PM
Come on nagorb - address my issues & stop the name calling. Do you feel that someone with a criminal record, documented to be unable to control violent impulses in the past....someone who plead guilty to assault for whatever the reason, should be allowed possession of a weapon? Heck, I wouldn't out the butter knives if I was having him over for dinner.

Big deal people mess up. I wouldnt call someone who got into a fight at a bar unable to control violent impulses you dont even know the circumstances nor do I.

Synergy
12-18-2009, 12:25 AM
Big deal people mess up. I wouldnt call someone who got into a fight at a bar unable to control violent impulses you dont even know the circumstances nor do I.

:stupid:

Were all human and make mistakes. LibGunner, you seem to be quite quick to jump upon people or topics, with very little background. As a new member your looking to be an instigator, or what we call a "troll". You are either with us or against us. So far it looks like your against us.

416stroker
12-18-2009, 12:29 AM
:stupid:

Were all human and make mistakes. LibGunner, you seem to be quite quick to jump upon people or topics, with very little background. As a new member your looking to be an instigator, or what we call a "troll". You are either with us or against us. So far it looks like your against us.

Thanks for calling me stupid:rofl2:

oaklander
12-18-2009, 5:10 AM
Pretty sure it's a "she."

:)

I just PM'ed her asking which anti-gun organization she works for.

DO NOT REPLY TO HIM! He is trying to get a rise out of us.

AJAX22
12-18-2009, 5:52 AM
Come on nagorb - address my issues & stop the name calling. Do you feel that someone with a criminal record, documented to be unable to control violent impulses in the past....someone who plead guilty to assault for whatever the reason, should be allowed possession of a weapon? Heck, I wouldn't out the butter knives if I was having him over for dinner.

Why do you think it is ok for someone who is unable to control violent impulses to be out of jail?

If you're fit to return to society, then you are fit to return to society. If not, then don't let them out.

davescz
12-18-2009, 9:09 AM
Why do you think it is ok for someone who is unable to control violent impulses to be out of jail?

If you're fit to return to society, then you are fit to return to society. If not, then don't let them out.

ditto that, if your still violent you belong in jail, if your out and still violent, these gun laws wont mattter anyway you can still get a gun, or use a knife, bat, car, fists or what ever to continue with the violence.

guns are just easy to target becuase the anti-gun left like to do that, that hate all folks with guns,so they start with the easy pickings, folks that have had crime in the past. but they are not alone, the anit-gun folks go after people with no crime record too, they dont want anyone to have a gun


for your case, I'd speak with the attorney to see if your record can be cleaned early. you should after all this time of being law abiding be able to have that fundimental right to self defence restored.

Dragunov
12-18-2009, 10:05 AM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

Even though I agree with the first part of your post, the second half remarks are UNCALLED for and very childish.:(

Dragunov
12-18-2009, 10:08 AM
Thank you for the life advice

Hey guy, don't let him/her get you down and ignore the smart aelic remarks. Go pay $100 and get a consultation with a good lawyer or maybe find one who has free consultation.

LiberalGunner
12-18-2009, 10:37 AM
Why do you think it is ok for someone who is unable to control violent impulses to be out of jail?

If you're fit to return to society, then you are fit to return to society. If not, then don't let them out.

So in your mind, punishment is jail, then it's over? Wow, you've got an A+ understanding of our legal system. Ever heard of parole? It's part of punishment for after you get out of jail.

In your line of reasoning, someone who paid their time for armed robbery should be later allowed a high level security clearance? Sorry, it don't work that way. Because the intelligent people of this world realize that if you committed a crime in the past, you could be "predisposed" to do it again. That's why we don't keep former druggies in jail forever, but also don't let them become DEA agents. Pedophiles may only serve 10 years, but sorry, they'll never be teaching elementary school in the public system.

In this world, actions have consequences.

GuyW
12-18-2009, 10:43 AM
That's why we don't keep former druggies in jail forever, but also don't let them become DEA agents.

Nope - we hire only the best as DEA agents, some of whom then shoot up school classrooms....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8

.

oaklander
12-18-2009, 10:44 AM
People can be rehabilitated. I actually met a lawyer who when he was young, was convicted of armed robbery. He disclosed everything to the Bar and after they were convinced that he was rehabilitated, he was admitted to the Bar.

I also know another lawyer who was arrested for ADW, and disclosed that, and was admitted.

You have an "F" understanding of how things work. You have my permission to leave CGN now.

So in your mind, punishment is jail, then it's over? Wow, you've got an A+ understanding of our legal system. Ever heard of parole? It's part of punishment for after you get out of jail.

In your line of reasoning, someone who paid their time for armed robbery should be later allowed a high level security clearance? Sorry, it don't work that way. Because the intelligent people of this world realize that if you committed a crime in the past, you could be "predisposed" to do it again. That's why we don't keep former druggies in jail forever, but also don't let them become DEA agents. Pedophiles may only serve 10 years, but sorry, they'll never be teaching elementary school in the public system.

In this world, actions have consequences.

LiberalGunner
12-18-2009, 11:54 AM
People can be rehabilitated. I actually met a lawyer who when he was young, was convicted of armed robbery. He disclosed everything to the Bar and after they were convinced that he was rehabilitated, he was admitted to the Bar.

I also know another lawyer who was arrested for ADW, and disclosed that, and was admitted.

You have an "F" understanding of how things work. You have my permission to leave CGN now.

Wow Oaklander - you want me off Calguns? Way to deal with dissenting opinions. Great to see another proponent of freedom of speech...someone who encourages open debate. I bet there are a lot of countries out there that simply silence the voices they don't like that you would feel really comfortable in.

And I love the fact that you site lawyers as your example of rehabilitated citizens and the Bar Association as your example of an organization adept at judging character. Have you been happy with all the A+ rated judges put forward by the ABA?

If you think the bar allowing people who were convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or armed robbery is moral, or does the legal profession a service, then I guess those are your values. I hold my children to high standards and try to live up to those standards myself. I teach them that actions have consequences. Some of those consequences can last a lifetime. But that's a personal belief. All I can do is be happy when it is shared by our criminal justice system, and be glad that people like you seem to have a small and diminishing impact on our society.

nagorb
12-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Have you ever done anything illegal?

edwardm
12-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Wow Oaklander - you want me off Calguns? Way to deal with dissenting opinions. Great to see another proponent of freedom of speech...someone who encourages open debate. I bet there are a lot of countries out there that simply silence the voices they don't like that you would feel really comfortable in.

It's not an open debate. Debate implies intelligence and thoughtfulness on both sides of the discussion. So far, I haven't seen either of those from you.

And I love the fact that you site lawyers as your example of rehabilitated citizens and the Bar Association as your example of an organization adept at judging character. Have you been happy with all the A+ rated judges put forward by the ABA?

You might want to check in and see how many peace officers are considered "rehabilitated" for purposes of their employment, too.

Do you have clue #1 as to what the State Bar moral character determination guidelines might be, how rehabilitation is determined and how long a process the background check can be for someone with a strike against his or her name?

If you think the bar allowing people who were convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or armed robbery is moral, or does the legal profession a service, then I guess those are your values. I hold my children to high standards and try to live up to those standards myself. I teach them that actions have consequences. Some of those consequences can last a lifetime. But that's a personal belief. All I can do is be happy when it is shared by our criminal justice system, and be glad that people like you seem to have a small and diminishing impact on our society.

A "small and diminishing impact" on our society? You don't pay very close attention around these parts, do you?

Man, where's my popcorn.

oaklander
12-18-2009, 12:50 PM
Wow Oaklander - you want me off Calguns? Way to deal with dissenting opinions. Great to see another proponent of freedom of speech...someone who encourages open debate. I bet there are a lot of countries out there that simply silence the voices they don't like that you would feel really comfortable in.

You aren't debating. You are trolling. When confronted with facts that disprove your opinions, you trot out irrelevant arguments. Go reread what you posted.

And I love the fact that you site lawyers as your example of rehabilitated citizens and the Bar Association as your example of an organization adept at judging character. Have you been happy with all the A+ rated judges put forward by the ABA?

I was referring to the California Bar. The ABA does not license attorneys.

If you think the bar allowing people who were convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or armed robbery is moral, or does the legal profession a service, then I guess those are your values. I hold my children to high standards and try to live up to those standards myself. I teach them that actions have consequences. Some of those consequences can last a lifetime. But that's a personal belief. All I can do is be happy when it is shared by our criminal justice system, and be glad that people like you seem to have a small and diminishing impact on our society.

That last part is kind of funny.

416stroker
12-18-2009, 1:10 PM
LiberalGunner this is about a guy who got an assault charge nothing else all you comments are off topic from the OP's thread. Your talking out your *** the guy got into a bar fight. Big deal it happens all the time its not like hes a major criminal People get in fights. Mostly when there younger then you hit a certain age and the grow up.

Now if he beat some one almost to death that would be a differnt story. Your trying to make it out like hes that type of person.

I vote make valid points stop trolling or :ban:

edwardm
12-18-2009, 1:14 PM
You aren't debating. You are trolling. When confronted with facts that disprove your opinions, you trot out irrelevant arguments. Go reread what you posted.



I was referring to the California Bar. The ABA does not license attorneys.



That last part is kind of funny.

Stop making sense, Oaklander. You're taking allllll the fun out of this.

AJAX22
12-18-2009, 1:41 PM
So in your mind, punishment is jail, then it's over? Wow, you've got an A+ understanding of our legal system. Ever heard of parole? It's part of punishment for after you get out of jail.

In your line of reasoning, someone who paid their time for armed robbery should be later allowed a high level security clearance? Sorry, it don't work that way. Because the intelligent people of this world realize that if you committed a crime in the past, you could be "predisposed" to do it again. That's why we don't keep former druggies in jail forever, but also don't let them become DEA agents. Pedophiles may only serve 10 years, but sorry, they'll never be teaching elementary school in the public system.

In this world, actions have consequences.

Parole is a situation (like house arrest) where you are allowed to serve out the remainder of your sentence in an alternate facility (i.e. outside of prison, or in a halfway house etc.)

You are not 'out' of jail until your sentence is served, you are merely serving your sentence elsewhere.

What we have now is what amounts to an unsupervised lifetime sentence (stripping of rights for life) which is administered for crime where the sentence (not the actual time you serve in prison, just the amount of time you are sentenced to) is 1 year or more.

For a crime as simple as having a 2$ billy club made from a chunk of firewood you loose your right to vote, your right to keep and bear arms, and are completely disenfranchised. (and go ahead and try to argue that our founding fathers didn't know what a club was... or if knives were considered 'arms' during the late 1700's)

A security clearance is in no way shape or form related to this issue... it is a requirement for employment not a basic (and enumerated) individual human right.

Intelligent people of this world understand that someone who is predisposed to commit crimes by definition does not follow the law. It is the naive and the moronic (hey look at that I can imply things too) who expect that laws passed to keep a pedophile, or a violent criminal, or a drug dealer, etc. away from the materials they may possibly use to commit the crime, will have any effect on reality.

Unless you feel that the pedophilia rapist is going to be more afraid of the slap on the wrist they get for hanging around the daycare than being thrown into gen pop for the next decade for sexually molesting a child?

If someone has committed a crime and is likely to do so again, keep them in jail.

Once someone has served their sentence, they rejoin society... AND if criminally inclined, no manner of feel good bleeding heart bull**** laws are going to prevent him from raping, murdering, stealing, molesting children, and performing mopery on a dog.

You either let people out and expect them to fully rejoin society, or you don't (that's ok too)

instead of wasting resources trying to prosecute a felon who bought a shotgun to protect his home, how about you just go after the guys who are committing actual property/violent crimes.... you know... situations where there is an actual party who has been wronged, instead of the crime of possessing an inanimate object which violates the states sensibilities.

And if you think the damn felon is going to commit more crimes (real crimes, against people and property), don't let him out.

LiberalGunner
12-18-2009, 10:44 PM
And if you think the damn felon is going to commit more crimes (real crimes, against people and property), don't let him out.

Don't worry Ajax. As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key. But I am for the punishment of limiting rights as dispensed by our judicial system.

If a judgement for assault is 21 months in jail, then never being allowed to use a firearm again, I would cheer that, and feel all the safer for it.

oaklander
12-18-2009, 10:52 PM
You are still here? Isn't there a soccer game or something that you have to go to?

:p

Don't worry Ajax. As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key. But I am for the punishment of limiting rights as dispensed by our judicial system.

If a judgement for assault is 21 months in jail, then never being allowed to use a firearm again, I would cheer that, and feel all the safer for it.

Meplat
12-19-2009, 12:09 AM
Some people need punching. Just because 8 years ago some dickhead DA may have disagreed on the particulars doesn't mean squat. You weren't there. Please go harass some other forum.


So in your mind, punishment is jail, then it's over? Wow, you've got an A+ understanding of our legal system. Ever heard of parole? It's part of punishment for after you get out of jail.

In your line of reasoning, someone who paid their time for armed robbery should be later allowed a high level security clearance? Sorry, it don't work that way. Because the intelligent people of this world realize that if you committed a crime in the past, you could be "predisposed" to do it again. That's why we don't keep former druggies in jail forever, but also don't let them become DEA agents. Pedophiles may only serve 10 years, but sorry, they'll never be teaching elementary school in the public system.

In this world, actions have consequences.

Meplat
12-19-2009, 12:15 AM
I hold my children to high standards and try to live up to those standards myself.

Who are you trying to kid? Your not old enough to have children!
:D

Meplat
12-19-2009, 12:21 AM
Stop making sense, Oaklander. You're taking allllll the fun out of this.



:laugh::rofl2::rofl2:

Santa Cruz Armory
12-19-2009, 2:02 AM
I see LiberalGunner got a warm CG welcome... LOL!

Maybe this forum is more his speed:

The liberal gun club .com (http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/)

Werewolf1021
12-19-2009, 2:43 AM
Why do you think it is ok for someone who is unable to control violent impulses to be out of jail?

If you're fit to return to society, then you are fit to return to society. If not, then don't let them out.

This. This. THIS. Why in the nine hells should we let someone out if they are not ready to re-enter society?

AJAX22
12-19-2009, 6:38 AM
LiberalGunner, I'm done with you...

You stand for everything that I despise in society, And clearly will not address any of the points I've raised in ANY of the threads I've posted in, and instead continue to cherry pick bull**** to talk about.

May you and your ilk reap what you sew.


Welcome to the Ignore list.

Please understand that you are the ONLY person who has ever shown themselves to be of sufficiently low worth (both intellectually and conversationally) to have made it to that point.

caoboy
12-19-2009, 7:17 AM
Don't worry Ajax. As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key. But I am for the punishment of limiting rights as dispensed by our judicial system.

If a judgement for assault is 21 months in jail, then never being allowed to use a firearm again, I would cheer that, and feel all the safer for it.

You are not smart. You are the reason, in CA, you can't beat someone down in self defense, without getting into trouble yourself. You are the reason you can't defend your house, lethally, without having a lawyer to prove you weren't just shooting some random person for the hell of it. You deserve to have no guns because you feel others shouldn't and that you are somehow better than them. I hope that you get into a situation where you will need your firearm, and I hope you have to live with what you did, and deal with the crap that others have dealt with in a home defense situation, and THEN deal with all the lawyering bs afterwards, to see how you really ****ED UP California's situation. Please, just move to SF already.

Oh, and I hope you cheer that when after you defend your home, maiming some thug lowlife, and spent x amount of dollars on lawyer fees, and spent time in jail, and get your guns taken away without possibility of getting them back, even though you were only defending your life, and you get home finally after all this life in hell time, that you get sued by the dude that you maimed, because he claims to be disabled from it (you shot him in the legs by the way, probably with birdshot from your .410 SG because you didn't want to actually harm him) and some crooked chicken**** lawyer wins the case, and you end up in debt for the rest of your life, because of your superior attitude, and no sense in actually wanting to better CA's gun rights to get them back to the way they are supposed to be. You probably think people that UOC are idiots too, that they shouldn't carry around guns for their 'SAFETY'.

M14ROOKIE
12-19-2009, 7:42 AM
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1123/trollingbackinthedays.jpg

GuyW
12-19-2009, 8:32 AM
As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key.

That's mental illness right there....and its getting progressively worse....

.

LiberalGunner
12-19-2009, 9:39 AM
You are not smart. You are the reason, in CA, you can't beat someone down in self defense, without getting into trouble yourself. You are the reason you can't defend your house, lethally, without having a lawyer to prove you weren't just shooting some random person for the hell of it. You deserve to have no guns because you feel others shouldn't and that you are somehow better than them. I hope that you get into a situation where you will need your firearm, and I hope you have to live with what you did, and deal with the crap that others have dealt with in a home defense situation, and THEN deal with all the lawyering bs afterwards, to see how you really ****ED UP California's situation. Please, just move to SF already.

Oh, and I hope you cheer that when after you defend your home, maiming some thug lowlife, and spent x amount of dollars on lawyer fees, and spent time in jail, and get your guns taken away without possibility of getting them back, even though you were only defending your life, and you get home finally after all this life in hell time, that you get sued by the dude that you maimed, because he claims to be disabled from it (you shot him in the legs by the way, probably with birdshot from your .410 SG because you didn't want to actually harm him) and some crooked chicken**** lawyer wins the case, and you end up in debt for the rest of your life, because of your superior attitude, and no sense in actually wanting to better CA's gun rights to get them back to the way they are supposed to be. You probably think people that UOC are idiots too, that they shouldn't carry around guns for their 'SAFETY'.

I can't say that I'm sad that our legal system puts limits on the "beat downs" that you might some day dole out. And yes, I feel it's a good thing that if I shot someone to protect my family, I would have to "prove I wasn't just shooting some random person for the hell of it".

I value human life. I'm sure you do to. I think that taking a human life should be a final resort, and that this should be an enforced position in our society. There are countries where you can be killed or a variety of reasons, big and small. I'm thankful that America is not one of those places. Where I know that if someone were to kill me, leaving my children without a parent, we would have a legal system that would never let the killer skate off for any reason lesser than defending their own lives or home.

I was lucky enough to be born here, but my parents came from a country where lives could be taken much more arbitrarily. There is no sense of safety in this. And the average person can't have a weapon big enough to defend themselves if they fall into the crosshairs of the wrong people.

So yes, you'll have to worry about losing money on attorney fees if you shoot someone. You'll have to worry about answering to prosecutors and judges and police. There is no 'pull the trigger and walk away' here, and I am so thankful for that.

edwardm
12-19-2009, 10:48 AM
I can't say that I'm sad that our legal system puts limits on the "beat downs" that you might some day dole out. And yes, I feel it's a good thing that if I shot someone to protect my family, I would have to "prove I wasn't just shooting some random person for the hell of it".

So wait, you'd like to shift the burden of proof in at least this case to the accused, rather than the State? How much further would you like to take that nonsense idea, I have to wonder. While the systems differ and do work differently, I would posit that it's also silliness in the case of a civil action.


I was lucky enough to be born here, but my parents came from a country where lives could be taken much more arbitrarily. There is no sense of safety in this. And the average person can't have a weapon big enough to defend themselves if they fall into the crosshairs of the wrong people.


So yes, you'll have to worry about losing money on attorney fees if you shoot someone. You'll have to worry about answering to prosecutors and judges and police. There is no 'pull the trigger and walk away' here, and I am so thankful for that.

Only in California. Only in California (rhetorically speaking, that is.)

LiberalGunner
12-19-2009, 4:54 PM
So wait, you'd like to shift the burden of proof in at least this case to the accused, rather than the State? How much further would you like to take that nonsense idea, I have to wonder. While the systems differ and do work differently, I would posit that it's also silliness in the case of a civil action.




I'm not talking about shifting burden of proof. What I mean is that if you're going to shoot someone in the USA, you need to be prepared for a full inquiry. If, after that happens, law enforcement decides there is probable cause to try you with a crime, I find it difficult to shed tears when I hear about legal fees.

Now I'm sure there are crooked prosecutors, etc. But that is a seperate issuee. If someone is brought up on false charges, then a problem exists with the system. But the fear of that won't make me stop supporting the full vetting of any use of deadly force.

SoCalDep
12-19-2009, 6:25 PM
Don't worry Ajax. As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key. But I am for the punishment of limiting rights as dispensed by our judicial system.

If a judgement for assault is 21 months in jail, then never being allowed to use a firearm again, I would cheer that, and feel all the safer for it.

You have no idea. I worked in a large metropolitan jail system for over four years, and have worked uniformed law enforcement patrol for almost three years. You have absolutely no idea how easy it is to be arrested and convicted of relatively minor crimes.

Some arrests will result in (at least) at temporary loss of gun rights even if innocent. There are PLENTY of innocent (or not solely responsible) people arrested for domestic violence. We have very little discretion in these matters. I would sooner bet on world peace than rehabilitation of criminals.

You still didn't respond to my initial post. You made a rude comment about the assault conviction and I called you on it. You elected to respond to several posts but conveniently didn't respond to mine, so I will ask you again to go back, read my earlier post, and tell me whether or not you are perfect. If not, you need to re-evaluate your comments and your demeanor, if not your whole limited life-view.

P.S. The real criminals...They, by definition don't follow the law. They won't care that they have 1.5years before they can own a gun for hunting. They'll find one, or a knife, or a stick, or they'll just beat the crap out of a grandmother, rape her, then rob her...Ask me how I know. Try to rehabilitate that.

anthonyca
12-19-2009, 8:57 PM
California law defines battery... which is sometimes referred to as assault & battery... under Penal Code 242 PC. A California battery is simply this: any willful and unlawful touch that is harmful and/or offensive.3

The slightest touch can trigger a battery allegation if it is done in an angry or offensive manner.4

"Willfully" means with a purpose or willingness to commit the act. It is not necessary that you (1) intend to break the law, or (2) intend to injure another.13

The force or violence doesn't need to result in pain or harm. The slightest touch is sufficient for a battery if it is done in a (1) rude, (2) angry, or (3) disrespectful manner. The bottom line is that any unwarranted and unjustifiable touch suffices to trigger a California simple battery.15

2 Judicial Council Of California Criminal Jury Instruction 960 -- Simple battery. ("The slightest touching can be enough to commit a battery if it is done in a rude or angry way.")

14 California Jury Instructions -- Criminal 16.141 Battery--"Force and Violence" Defined. ("As used in the foregoing instruction, the words "force" and "violence" are synonymous and mean any [unlawful] application of physical force against the person of another, even though it causes no pain or bodily harm or leaves no mark and even though only the feelings of such person are injured by the act.")

13 Judicial Council Of California Criminal Jury Instruction 960 -- PC 242 Simple battery. ("Someone commits an act willfully when he or she does it willingly or on purpose. It is not required that he or she intend to break the law, hurt someone else, or gain any advantage.")

15 See same. ("The slightest [unlawful] touching, if done in an insolent, rude, or an angry manner, is sufficient [to cause a California battery]. It is not necessary that the touching be done in actual anger or with actual malice; it is sufficient if it was unwarranted and unjustifiable.")
16 See same. ("The touching essential to a battery may be a touching of the person, of the person's clothing, or of something attached to or closely connected with the person.")

This is misdemeanor battery in California. Do you honestly believe this warrants loss of a fundemental natural right that is also protected by the constitution? If the "victim" was domestic at any time that loss is for life.

NiteQwill
12-19-2009, 9:06 PM
Everyone do this. Problem solved.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Screen-shot-2009-12-19-at-10.04.07-PM.png

caoboy
12-19-2009, 10:39 PM
Everyone do this. Problem solved.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Screen-shot-2009-12-19-at-10.04.07-PM.png

Win.

MudCamper
12-20-2009, 12:22 AM
Has anyone heard of someones record getting dismissed and that person getting 2nd amendment rights back?

Happens all the time. It depends on the type of crime. Must not be listed in 12021.x (the really heinous ones like murder, rape, robbery, etc.) and must be a misdemeanor or wobbler felony/misdemeanor that is sentenced as a misdemeanor or is later reduced from felony to misdemeanor per PC 17(b)(3). There is also a "dismissal" type expungment per PC 1203.4, but that does not restore firearms rights. There are also lots of misdemeanors that are 10 year prohibitions (like the OP's). No way to shorten that time that I know of.

See the following:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=97498
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=92885
http://www.paul.net/guns/CDM_Memorandum_on_restoration_of_rights.pdf

nagorb
12-20-2009, 4:39 AM
Everyone do this. Problem solved.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Screen-shot-2009-12-19-at-10.04.07-PM.png

WHAT DID i SAY IN POST # WHATEVER?

glockwise2000
12-20-2009, 5:03 AM
tagged. :popcorn:

Steveo8
12-20-2009, 8:08 AM
I suppose you lived a perfect life then huh.

I absolutely 100% guarantee that the only difference between you and him right now is maybe which crime and that he got caught and you didn't. I'm pretty darn squeeky clean and I'm not about to go on a public board and mock someone who got a single battery conviction eight and a half years ago and has been law-abiding since and is asking about legal ways to recover his ability to own a gun. My glass house isn't that strong and neither is yours.

I was trying to figure out a way of saying this without being an A&&hole. Very well said!

SKSer
12-20-2009, 8:45 AM
M14, it sucks that it seems you were involved in a rowdy group situation. But the fact is that if a person shows a record of being unable to make the right decision, especially when it comes to the use of violence, it is perfectly understandable that "the people" permanently disarm this individual, thus making him less of a future threat if he were to again enter a "heat of the moment" situation. To gripe about not being able to hunt is just whining over split milk. Go to safeway to buy your meat like the rest of the non-gunners....and please don't shoplift, brawl in the parking lot or throw any trash on the floor while you're there.

You sound like Dianne Feinstein when she sends a letter back supporting "sensible gun control"... the guy was asking a question about getting his rights back, you are not the judge to determine if his actions or his life warrants that or not. Thank God you are not in any situation of power, if you were you would have this whole state on house arrest with padded walls. Your statements sound so liber.... ohhhh...wait..... there it is LIBERALGUNNER

M14ROOKIE
12-20-2009, 10:37 AM
This is a really cool board, you guys are very supportive and I truly appreciate it. Yes everyone ( except liberalgunner) makes mistakes. Some more severe than others. I paid my dues and I am a better person now. **** happens, I am not a violent person, but when you are out numbered by thugs and your buddies are going down, anyone would stand up and fight. Yes I lost my 2nd amendment rights for 10 years but guess what? I would not change a thing. It was worth it to save my bro's ***. To this day I have their back and they have my back. When SHTF ,law technicalities are thrown out the window. Thanks for having my back guys. I will continue to lurk and occasional post on here. Need some advice for a new rifle anyway, I have been out of the game for some time.

GuyW
12-20-2009, 11:04 AM
What I mean is that if you're going to shoot someone in the USA, you need to be prepared for a full inquiry.

No - in many cases we need to return to the time-honored legal justification, that "Some people just need shootin'..."

.

wildhawker
12-20-2009, 11:06 AM
Like jury nullification, justifiable homicide is another seemingly-forgotten element of our criminal justice system.

LiberalGunner
12-20-2009, 11:06 AM
No - in many cases we need to return to the time-honored legal justification, that "Some people just need shootin'..."

.

And my liberal friends thought I wouldn't find anybody intelligent on these pages!

HowardW56
12-20-2009, 11:34 AM
They do a pretty extensive background check to get in the academy, funny that they didn't see it. On the other hand, a neighbor got caught with a half pound of mexi-weed in the late 70ies or early 80ies in CA. It was a felony. A couple years ago, he bought an over/under shotgun through a gunshop in CA. and passed the background check.

Sealed juvinile records can be more of an issue, and then it depends where....

spddrcr
12-20-2009, 2:57 PM
im pretty sure that liberal gunner is related to the brady campaign bay area meet up group that was infiltrated by cal guns members earlier this week. A few things that were said in the thread would lead me to believe it is one of 2 people involved in the meetup group.:TFH:

M14ROOKIE
12-20-2009, 3:03 PM
im pretty sure that liberal gunner is related to the brady campaign bay area meet up group that was infiltrated by cal guns members earlier this week. A few things that were said in the thread would lead me to believe it is one of 2 people involved in the meetup group.:TFH:

Back Story?

edwardm
12-20-2009, 3:36 PM
Back Story?

Buncha CGN folks infiltrated:

http://www.meetup.com/Bay-Area-Gun-Violence-Prevention-Meetup

I think Oaklander found it and posted it originally. Hilarity followed.

The anti-gun folks are, shall we say, without a sense of humor.

wutzu
12-22-2009, 5:52 AM
Come on nagorb - address my issues & stop the name calling. Do you feel that someone with a criminal record, documented to be unable to control violent impulses in the past....someone who plead guilty to assault for whatever the reason, should be allowed possession of a weapon? Heck, I wouldn't out the butter knives if I was having him over for dinner.

If this hypothetical person is so dangerous, why is he free to walk about? Anyone too dangerous to own a gun should be either exiled or jailed.

SoCalDep
12-22-2009, 7:06 AM
LBG is only replying to the posts he likes. He ignores all the other ones that bruise his paradigm. He's trying to bait people here into making inflammatory comments...Probably so he can quote them to his anti-gun forum friends. His claims display either complete ignorance of the current legal system and our concept of justice or pure contrarian argumentation designed to get people angry. He probably doesn't even believe what he is saying...He's just doing it to get angry reactions to make gun owners look bad....

ALSystems
12-22-2009, 9:13 AM
Don't worry Ajax. As a progressive, I believe in a progressive penal system, with a focus on rehabilitation. Sensitivity programs, learning to read, job skills, cultural reconnection. I'm not for throwing away the key. But I am for the punishment of limiting rights as dispensed by our judicial system.

If a judgement for assault is 21 months in jail, then never being allowed to use a firearm again, I would cheer that, and feel all the safer for it.
The only thing I don't understand is why a Troll like this was not banned sooner? :ban: LiberalGunner completely highjacked several threads of this forum and made intelligent discussion impossible for the rest of us.