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View Full Version : Would Cutting Off The Mag Release Make An M1A Legal In Sage EBR or Troy MCS Stock?


crin63
12-15-2009, 8:56 AM
I got to thinking (which usually scares my wife) that if you just cut the magazine release off flush with the bottom of mag well, you have turned the M1A into a fixed magazine. Which in turn (if you have a compensator instead of flash suppressor) should make the Sage EBR or TROY MCS stock Cali legal.

A replacement mag release is all of about $15 and about a 10-15 minute job to swap out if you don't have a vise and work bench.

To remove the magazine all it takes is removing the trigger group which itself is obviously quite simple.

Am I wrong in my thinking here?

4thSeal
12-15-2009, 9:39 AM
im sure you can do that... but what is the point of having that MCS stock or EBR stock if you cannot drop magazines...

get a Troy MCS / EBR get a solartactical wrap for it, fix the stock and run a smith enterprise break ... and keep the detatchable magazine.

if you want a fixed 10rnd mag, you can run flash suppressor, collapsable stock, pistol grip, VFG, whatever u want.

M1A Rifleman
12-15-2009, 10:21 AM
:banghead:

Nothing like destroying a perfectly good weapon for no good reason.

dfletcher
12-15-2009, 10:27 AM
You could do as you suggested and craft a "male female" slot & tab arrangement where the tool slots into the female cut in the shortened mage release lever in the M1A. Make the lever "L" shaped so you don't bounce your knuckles off the back end of the mag. It would work fine I think.

Scotty
12-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Now, since removal of the trigger group does not require tools, would this be illegal?

Grassninja
12-15-2009, 12:01 PM
That'd be like neutering a bull.

pMcW
12-15-2009, 12:35 PM
:banghead:

Nothing like destroying a perfectly good weapon for no good reason.

Agreed. I was looking at a sage stock at the Cow Palace (not planning to buy), and it occurred to me that I couldn't use even it in CA. The guy behind the counter said, "we have a mag lock that you can get for it."

I had to roll my eyes, shake my head, and walk away. There's no way that I want to ruin my only correctly functional war rifle for some pistol grip stock!

Anyhow, if I wanted to spend that much for a stock, I'd be more inclined to get something like this: http://www.jae100.com/

trapshot68
12-15-2009, 1:11 PM
Now, since removal of the trigger group does not require tools, would this be illegal?


“Detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding
device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither
disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required.

Taking the trigger group out is disassembly of the action.

CHS
12-15-2009, 2:08 PM
I got to thinking (which usually scares my wife) that if you just cut the magazine release off flush with the bottom of mag well, you have turned the M1A into a fixed magazine. Which in turn (if you have a compensator instead of flash suppressor) should make the Sage EBR or TROY MCS stock Cali legal.

A replacement mag release is all of about $15 and about a 10-15 minute job to swap out if you don't have a vise and work bench.

To remove the magazine all it takes is removing the trigger group which itself is obviously quite simple.

Am I wrong in my thinking here?

You are not wrong. You are exactly right, and that's what a lot of other people have done.

Personally, I like my 20rd detachable mags :)

crin63
12-16-2009, 1:03 PM
I have 3 M1A's. I figured why not play around with one of them.

I have a Gruning Precision Custom build in a McMillan M3A stock. There is no way on God's green earth I would ever consider putting that in a Sage or Troy stock, but I also have a scout and socom.

The other thing I thought I might do was just to buy a 2 trigger group that has the mag release and leave that locked up in the safe at home in case I go back to the original stock.

E Pluribus Unum
12-16-2009, 4:08 PM
I have 3 M1A's. I figured why not play around with one of them. .

Why mess with perfection? If you don't appreciate how she is.. then give her to someone who will??

I think puting all that crap on an M1A is like putting a fart pipe on a Honda. It is only for looks because it does not help performance; why do it?

If you want "play around with it" then spend your money on something that will make it more accurate; glass-bedding, gas system overhall, get some trigger work done.

cbn620
12-16-2009, 4:37 PM
Nah, go ahead and do that... I've wanted one for a long time and I'll be the first bidder when you inevitably put it on Gunbroker for half its resell value. :D

Crazed_SS
12-16-2009, 4:56 PM
Why mess with perfection? If you don't appreciate how she is.. then give her to someone who will??

I think puting all that crap on an M1A is like putting a fart pipe on a Honda. It is only for looks because it does not help performance; why do it?

If you want "play around with it" then spend your money on something that will make it more accurate; glass-bedding, gas system overhall, get some trigger work done.

Agreed.

I think ruining a perfectly functional M1A just so you can put on a tacticool pistol-grip stock kinda lends weight to the anti's argument that pistol grips somehow make a gun more deadly..

They'd be like, "See, even gun owners will gimp their own guns to get the ability to use a pistol-grip which will allow it to spray-fire from the hip!"

five.five-six
12-16-2009, 4:58 PM
Taking the trigger group out is disassembly of the action.


yup^

CHS
12-16-2009, 5:43 PM
For all you people talking about how badly putting an M1A into the Sage EBR or Troy chasis will be "ruining" a rifle, why don't you ask the military how they like their Sage's?

I'm sure the military has nothing better to do than take perfectly normal M14's and screw them up just so their soldiers have something stupid to play with.

Hell, they were putting pistol grips and detachable mags on GARANDS even back in the day. I'm sure they were just doing it because they had nothing better to do though, for the purists.

cbn620
12-16-2009, 5:58 PM
For all you people talking about how badly putting an M1A into the Sage EBR or Troy chasis will be "ruining" a rifle, why don't you ask the military how they like their Sage's?

I'm sure the military has nothing better to do than take perfectly normal M14's and screw them up just so their soldiers have something stupid to play with.

Hell, they were putting pistol grips and detachable mags on GARANDS even back in the day. I'm sure they were just doing it because they had nothing better to do though, for the purists.

I think people are saying chopping the mag release off and nullifying the rifle's detachable mag feature all so you can have a pistol grip is silly. I don't think anyone is saying detachable mags and pistol grips ruin rifles.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does the military modify their M14's so that you can't drop the mag on them and would have to remove the trigger group to change magazines?

CHS
12-16-2009, 6:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but does the military modify their M14's so that you can't drop the mag on them and would have to remove the trigger group to change magazines?

Of course not. But that doesn't matter. They also don't put bullet buttons on their M16's and M4's. Chopping the mag release just lets you have features you wouldn't normally be allowed to have.

It's exactly the same as what we do to have AR's in this state.

Sure, some people run featureless, but most don't. With M1A's it's surely the opposite (I run mine stock for my boxes of 20rd'ers), but who cares?

Why is it fine and dandy to run a bullet button on an AR, which NO ONE screams and shouts is "ruining a fine military rifle", but it's somehow wrong to do the EXACT SAME THING on another military rifle, that the military actually uses in the configuration that the OP wants?

Crazed_SS
12-19-2009, 9:34 PM
Why is it fine and dandy to run a bullet button on an AR, which NO ONE screams and shouts is "ruining a fine military rifle",


Because you have no other choice with the AR.. I guess you can use a MMG or any of those other grip "solutions", but they are still a compromise.

With the M1A, you have a rifle that is 100% functional without any of those compromises. Hacking it up to install a pistol-grip stock seems completely pointless. You spend a bunch of money, lose major functionality, and end up with a tacticool-looking gimped rifle.


but it's somehow wrong to do the EXACT SAME THING on another military rifle, that the military actually uses in the configuration that the OP wants?

The military doesnt use bullet buttons.

CHS
12-20-2009, 7:01 AM
The military doesnt use bullet buttons.

And they don't use monsterman grips and grip wraps and they don't use 10rd magazines and the M16's and M14's are fully-automatic. So you still have no point.

The OP wants to duplicate a military weapon in a configuration that the military actually uses in the most legal way that he can. We all do the exact same thing with M16's, except that we call them AR15's and we use bullet buttons in them.

It's no different, except for some reason the M14 purists are a much louder bunch when they're whining.

crin63
12-20-2009, 7:22 AM
You purists are a little to uptight, you need to loosen up your hat bands before your heads explode. Good grief, I hope you're still using your old black & white TV's because you sure wouldn't want to update something that was already good enough.

You Purists all jump in and assume things that you have no clue about, which is my motive.

I have switched some of my rifles to having an adjustable LOP because I have a petite 15 year old daughter that likes shooting and I want to be able to accommodate (fairly quickly) both of us as best I can when we go shooting. I suppose I could hack off some of that fiberglass stock that the rifle came in and nail it back together when I want to shoot. Wait I forgot to ask, is it okay to have a fiberglass stock on an M1A since thats not how it was originally produced or does that violate your sensibilities as well?

Crazed_SS
12-20-2009, 10:37 AM
lol.. Im far from a M14 "purist". If I were a purist, I wouldnt own a fiberglass M1A and a SOCOM 16..

There are a lot of gun ricers out there that just throw stuff on because it looks cool.. I just cant understand what is gained by putting a BB on a M1A.

With that said, now that the OP mentions he needs the adjustable stock so his daughter can shoot, it makes some sense. There seems to be an actual functional reason for the Sage.

CHS
12-21-2009, 6:51 AM
There seems to be an actual functional reason for the Sage.

Who cares if there was an actual functional reason?

Many of us buy Garands and M1 carbines and AR15's and M1A's because we want to have the closest thing to a military weapon we are legally allowed to have.

A lot of people even put pistol grips on their garands and shorten them so they have a copy of the rare tanker models. Well right now the military is putting tons of M14's into Sage chassis' so who are you people to judge when someone else wants to do it here?

It really makes me want to get a second M1A just so I can P/O the purists and those that believe there is no "actual functional reason" for the sage. How about better ergonomics for one?

Swatguy10_15
12-21-2009, 7:26 AM
And they don't use monsterman grips and grip wraps and they don't use 10rd magazines and the M16's and M14's are fully-automatic. So you still have no point.

The OP wants to duplicate a military weapon in a configuration that the military actually uses in the most legal way that he can. We all do the exact same thing with M16's, except that we call them AR15's and we use bullet buttons in them.

It's no different, except for some reason the M14 purists are a much louder bunch when they're whining.

Its just a matter of opinion..I think the person whining is the one getting all "up in arms" over this.. I think the point was modyfying weapons with features that people wont/cant effectively use.. A quadrail with a 1) Laser 2) Ten Gazillion lumen Flashlight 3)Then a VFG 4)Eotech or acog or my favorite useless item, a hong kong version..now and then you see the laser "boxes" with both visible and IR lasers..

1) Lasers.....? Really..The only real use the military has for lasers is IR..in other words bad guys cant see em'..Theyre very cute and all but other than revealing youre location.....
2)The flashlight..You dont just go put a light on a weapon and have graduated into the "nighttime warfare" capable club.The soldiers and LEO's who actually use lights for actual MOUT and or nighttime someone may die operations..Go through alot, I mean alooott of training learning how to effectively use a light in combat..Just because you can buy it doesnt mean you can proficently use it.
3) The VFG..Originally designed to help control FULL auto firing...ON a semi auto..Looks neat..I admit it may be a tad more comfortable..
4) eotechs and acogs...Here we go.. I love nothing more than those willing to pay sooo much for a weapon sight that has features that you can not use.IR settings..The aimpoint comp m4 for instance..Some retailers cant keep them in stock..Theyre always sold out..Half the cost is the IR capable setting(s)..Unless you have gen 4 or above NVG's about 6500 or so worth of additional expense..That ir thing...well....(Noting that I dont even think gen 4 is avalable to the public AND air ambulance companies have to wait over a year to get them because the bulk of the productions go to the military..
Now to every man his own..If someone wants to hang 10 pounds worth of stuff on his weapon..Hey go nuts! If someone wants to paint theyre m14 pink and purple and throw a cutsie stock on it..Hey take pics to post when youre done!
Also noting I fly alot of soldiers around and have yet to see any M14 on anything but the standard wood stock...But Im just one person..They could very well be doing that and I just havent personally seen it.

But calling people "purists" and berating them over a difference of opinion...IM gonna P/o a purist?? No youre gonna look like another one of those at the range trying to "one up" everyone else with theyre weapon..Everyone has dealt with those types..Its amazing how the last few years things have changed...The range has become much like a gym..You got youre folks in theyre to do theyre PT, enjoy it and get done..Then you got youre meatheads walking around trying to compensate for lack of something..Trying ever so desperately to gain the attention of anyone who will stoop to theyre level.. Just a matter of opinions:rockon:

CHS
12-21-2009, 7:37 AM
Its just a matter of opinion..I think the person whining is the one getting all "up in arms" over this.. I think the point was modyfying weapons with features that people wont/cant effectively use.. A quadrail with a 1) Laser 2) Ten Gazillion lumen Flashlight 3)Then a VFG 4)Eotech or acog or my favorite useless item, a hong kong version..now and then you see the laser "boxes" with both visible and IR lasers..


Have you read the OP?

The guy wants to put an M1A into a Sage chassis. Not once did he mention night vision, lasers, VFG's or any of that crap.