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roadwarrior1971
12-14-2009, 11:11 PM
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=491:nra-bad-for-iowa&catid=19:the-knox-update&Itemid=144

NRA Pushing Bad Bill in Iowa

*** Update: A revised proposal from NRA has surfaced which is somewhat better than the proposal discussed in this article, but which still has some serious flaws. The new proposal and NRA's description will be linked at the bottom of this article and hilights of changes will be noted parenthetically within the article at the applicable sections. ***

It's been a long time since we have had serious issues with NRA actions, but their proposed concealed carry legislation for Iowa is simply bad and we're taking exception.

Last year two state organizations, Iowa Carry and Iowa Gun Owners, banged heads with competing legislation and competing strategies. Iowa Carry was backing a “shall issue” bill which included mandatory training requirements and several other concessions. Iowa Gun Owners was pushing an Alaska-style bill which removed restrictions on concealed carry and offered an optional permit system for the sake of reciprocity.

The Alaska bill had 25 cosponsors among the 100 members of the Iowa House and failed to pass by just one vote ending in a 49 – 49 tie in the final minutes of the legislative session. (Note: This was not a straight up or down vote, but a procedural vote on whether to suspend the rules to allow the Alaska-style bill language to be amended onto a must-pass bill. It still demonstrates a surprising level of support.)

After such an impressive showing, one would expect advocates to unite around the Alaska-style bill for this legislative session with an eye towards either passing a very good bill, or forcing a clear record vote on such a bill and using that vote against opponents in the next General Election. Instead, after ignoring the state for decades, NRA has decided to ride their white horse into Iowa to save the day by amending the already weak Iowa Carry bill to make it not only weaker, but to actually include some provisions which are worse than existing law – snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Under the NRA proposal, not only would anyone ever convicted of a felony or a violent misdemeanor be barred from concealed carry, anyone ever arrested on such a charge would be barred. The proposal also bars anyone with “a written finding by any agency of a state or the United States sustaining an allegation of abuse against another person,” leaving the door open for a ban on concealed carry for a parent who spanks their child or a person victimized by false accusations from a former spouse or intimate. The NRA says that a “paper trail” demonstrating a history of violence or abuse is enough. A judge and jury – due process – are just superfluous. This portion is supposed to improve on the current laws provision that bars a permit from anyone with a “history of violence.” The language about violent misdemeanors addresses this, but even that raises questions. Many people have been cited at some point for involvement in a fist-fight or some such petty up-scuttle. Is it reasonable to bar anyone so cited from the ability to defend themselves? (Note: This provision was retained unchanged in the newer version of the proposal.)

NRA's bill also makes going “armed with a firearm while under the influence of alcohol” an aggravated misdemeanor punishable by up to two years in prison. If legislators subsequently added just one day to the punishment guidelines for an aggravated misdemeanor, anyone convicted under this law would not only lose their right to carry, they would lose all of their gun rights for the rest of their lives. NRA claims that this provision fixes a problem with the existing law which bars “alcoholics” from receiving a permit to carry. Since the clinical definition of an alcoholic can include “recovering alcoholics” who haven't had a drink in decades, simply barring alcoholics is a problem, but NRA's solution creates a much worse problem. Anyone who enjoys an occasional beer and who regularly carries understands the catch-22 such a law can create – especially when “under the influence is left undefined. The NRA “fix” also recreates the exact same problem it's fixing by creating a blanket prohibition for anyone addicted to a controlled substance. Just as with alcohol, there are many people who no longer use drugs, but who stand up every week and say “Hi, I'm Dave and I'm an addict.” Some of these folks are police officers who would lose their jobs if such language was enforced. (Note: These provisions were tweaked in the newer proposal, downgrading the "possession under the influence" charge to a simple miedemeanor and making some exceptions for someone on their own property, but it remains a trip-wire for anyone who ever consumes alcohol. The issue of recovering addicts was not addressed.) ...................

Deadred7o7
12-15-2009, 1:55 AM
I wonder how they will sell this as "The best they could do" to the masses?

Werewolf1021
12-15-2009, 2:16 AM
First: Felons cannot own firearms, so how can they get a ccw permit :rolleyes:
Second: It says "sustained allegation" meaning if it found to be true IE they did it
Sustain:to support as true, legal, or just
Third and final: Without the text of the proposed bill, we have to assume the author is telling the whole truth. To me it seems doubtful.

I also point to this discussion of the same bill

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=34992&forum_id=23&jump_to=592842

Edit: Upon reading the bill, most of those things are already in current law! That means the NRA did NOT propose them. It is changing the Iowa from a may issure to shall issue. Text of bill: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=9081

press1280
12-15-2009, 2:47 AM
From what the OP says, it looks like it's basically a standard shall-issue bill. I don't agree with the lifetime bans for alcoholics,druggies,exc. Most states have a cooling off period where you can get a CCW if you've been good for the last 5 years or so.
I can't see how this is a step back for Iowa, unless the OP wants to go for the Alaska/Vermont gold standard. And, as stated by Werewolf, this stuff like training,exc. is already the law, it just doesn't allow localities to decide what's a "justifiable need" and what's not.

krazz
12-15-2009, 5:20 AM
Don't EVER criticize the NRA. Period. End of story.

ilbob
12-15-2009, 6:55 AM
As I understand the situation, there actually is no bill yet, so it is not clear just where this purported information may have come from.

Bill704
12-17-2009, 9:43 AM
ilbob is correct. There currently is no "NRA bill" being debated in the Iowa legislature. There is a draft bill on the Iowacarry.org web site and it is a standard Florida style carry bill. It would be a VAST improvement over the states current, messed up patchwork of 99 different CCW laws.

There are no lifetime bans for alcohol or drugs as the above tries to state. The proposed bill makes it a serious misdemeanor, not an aggravated misdemeanor as stated above.

A group calling itself Iowa Gun Owners, run by a man named Aaron Dorr, is pushing for open carry in Iowa. Most political observers in the state don't think they can get there given the makeup of our legislature without going to "Shall Issue" first. Rather than work together with the other group pushing for reform, Iowa Carry, they have decided that their best opportunity to win is to use deceptive tactics to try and derail the "shall issue" bill.

The Dorr family has been accused of using deceptive tactics in the past to further their political consulting business. http://www.citypages.com/2005-07-06/news/the-gospel-according-to-paul-dorr/. While it is unknown if the whole family is all involved in Iowa Gun Owners or not, it is unfortunate that IGO has chosen to try and destroy those who are also working for a positive change in Iowa.

dustoff31
12-17-2009, 9:56 AM
A group calling itself Iowa Gun Owners, run by a man named Aaron Dorr, is pushing for open carry in Iowa. Most political observers in the state don't think they can get there given the makeup of our legislature without going to "Shall Issue" first. Rather than work together with the other group pushing for reform, Iowa Carry, they have decided that their best opportunity to win is to use deceptive tactics to try and derail the "shall issue" bill.

The Dorr family has been accused of using deceptive tactics in the past to further their political consulting business. http://www.citypages.com/2005-07-06/news/the-gospel-according-to-paul-dorr/. While it is unknown if the whole family is all involved in Iowa Gun Owners or not, it is unfortunate that IGO has chosen to try and destroy those who are also working for a positive change in Iowa.

So in other words, this group is the Iowa version of GOA (Gun Owners of America)?

SteveH
12-17-2009, 10:19 AM
Same thing happened in Michigan. Their "Shall issue" CCW law resulted in many long term CCW permit holders getting revoked.

The NRA, like doctors, need a do no harm oath.

dansgold
12-17-2009, 10:33 AM
Just thinking outside the box:

Some of the provisions of the proposed legislation seem to be ripe for court challenges. If including them gets the proposal passed, and the strategy is to later challenge those questionable provisions in court, this could be simply a strategy (if somewhat cynical) towards a more desirable outcome.

Kestryll
12-17-2009, 10:37 AM
Edit: Upon reading the bill, most of those things are already in current law! That means the NRA did NOT propose them. It is changing the Iowa from a may issure to shall issue. Text of bill: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=9081

From what the OP says, it looks like it's basically a standard shall-issue bill. I don't agree with the lifetime bans for alcoholics,druggies,exc. Most states have a cooling off period where you can get a CCW if you've been good for the last 5 years or so.
I can't see how this is a step back for Iowa, unless the OP wants to go for the Alaska/Vermont gold standard.

As I understand the situation, there actually is no bill yet, so it is not clear just where this purported information may have come from.

ilbob is correct. There currently is no "NRA bill" being debated in the Iowa legislature. There is a draft bill on the Iowacarry.org web site and it is a standard Florida style carry bill. It would be a VAST improvement over the states current, messed up patchwork of 99 different CCW laws.

There are no lifetime bans for alcohol or drugs as the above tries to state. The proposed bill makes it a serious misdemeanor, not an aggravated misdemeanor as stated above.

A group calling itself Iowa Gun Owners, run by a man named Aaron Dorr, is pushing for open carry in Iowa. Most political observers in the state don't think they can get there given the makeup of our legislature without going to "Shall Issue" first. Rather than work together with the other group pushing for reform, Iowa Carry, they have decided that their best opportunity to win is to use deceptive tactics to try and derail the "shall issue" bill.

The Dorr family has been accused of using deceptive tactics in the past to further their political consulting business. http://www.citypages.com/2005-07-06/news/the-gospel-according-to-paul-dorr/. While it is unknown if the whole family is all involved in Iowa Gun Owners or not, it is unfortunate that IGO has chosen to try and destroy those who are also working for a positive change in Iowa.

Well surprise me, using misinformation and flat out inc orrect information to slam the NRA...

Who'da seen that coming???

xxdabroxx
12-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Well surprise me, using misinformation and flat out inc orrect information to slam the NRA...

Who'da seen that coming???

Everyone knows the NRA is the devil and they only want your money. They do nothing for California. :TFH:

wildhawker
12-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Well surprise me, using misinformation and flat out inc orrect information to slam the NRA...

Who'da seen that coming???

Surely not!

Glock22Fan
12-17-2009, 12:42 PM
Maybe someone could/should add "Allegedly" to the thread's title?

CalNRA
12-17-2009, 3:43 PM
Surely not!

I bet the NRA is just giving all you fat cats a shiny new Mercedes SL a year for keeping guns laws strict in this state so they can get donation.

I bet half the CGF board of directors are on the take of VPC.

Am I right?:D