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View Full Version : Are you allowed to have a detachable magazine on a semi-auto rifle


SVPRApps
12-06-2009, 9:40 AM
The laws are so confusing makes me not want to go out and legally buy a rifle then get slapped with charges/fines later down the road

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php


On that note, I'm trying to find a saiga 7.62 under $320 but will not get it if it uses those bullet buttons things

NiteQwill
12-06-2009, 9:42 AM
You CAN have a detachable magazine if it is featureless (aka: NO evil features).

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Options_for_detachable_magazines

sytfu_RR
12-06-2009, 9:43 AM
You can if you build it featureless ( I.E. no pistol grip,flash hider,VFG, or Adjustable stock ) and have detachable mags & use high capacity mags if you owned them prior to 2000. Just follow the Flow Chart. This has been discussed numerous times.

Quiet
12-06-2009, 9:46 AM
Detachable magazines in rimfire semi-auto rifles are 100% legal.

Detachable magazines in centerfire semi-auto rifles are legal in "featureless" rifles.

Featureless = does not have any of the features that would classify it as an assault weapon.


Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Gofasterdammit
12-06-2009, 9:47 AM
For the Saiga you do not need a magazine lock device. They are technically a sporting rifle. If you decide to convert it then you will need a mag lock if you run a pistol grip. You should be able to find a used, unconverted Saiga for $350-$400.

Gofasterdammit
12-06-2009, 9:49 AM
Wow in the time it took me to type my response on my iPhone there were already 3 responses.

tpc13
12-13-2009, 11:05 AM
Kalifornia laws are stupid in the first place. You can use deteach mags in guns such as Mini 14, Mini 30, Su16-Ca and a few others as long as their 10 rds and you do not convert it into an assault weapon. No pistol grip seems to be the question everyone is asking these days.

bigcalidave
12-13-2009, 11:42 AM
If you can use detachable mags, you can use detachable high capacity mags tpc. The ONLY time you can't have a high capacity magazine is if it is fixed.

brianm767
12-13-2009, 11:57 AM
And some thing to consider is what California considers a "Detachable Magazine" and basically it's a mag that is removable without the use of a tool, so when you install a bullet button or some thing similar, the magazine is still removable, but it takes a tool to remove it, and that doesn't mean you have to break out the tool box and start tearing down the rifle, you just use a small tool, ergo bullet tip, Allen wrench or any thing small enough to slip inside a little hole and press in a button, and the mag drops out, woo hoo, big deal, so instead of your finger, you use the tip of a bullet, I'm sure we can all see how that makes a weapon, much more safe. got to love California.

Greg-Dawg
12-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Read the Flowchart and live with it.

That's how it is here in beautiful Kali.

bigcalidave
12-13-2009, 12:26 PM
New avatar greg? nice.

Rob454
12-13-2009, 12:27 PM
Kalifornia laws are stupid in the first place. You can use deteach mags in guns such as Mini 14, Mini 30, Su16-Ca and a few others as long as their 10 rds or you owned 30 round capacity mags BEFORE 2000 and you do not convert it into an assault weapon. No pistol grip seems to be the question everyone is asking these days.

Fixed it for ya :D
The thing that you cant have is pistol grips front hand pistol frip flash supressor.
if youhave a featureless rifle like a Saiga or a M14 Mini 14 style in its over the counter "stock" configuration you can have 10 rond 20 round and 30 round mags. The 20-30 round you can use and own as long as you owned them before year 2000 and the 10 round you can buy OTC for any pistol or gun in california.
I rather have a detachable mag rifle than a pinned one with "evil features"

johnrunner89
12-13-2009, 12:59 PM
If you can use detachable mags, you can use detachable high capacity mags tpc. The ONLY time you can't have a high capacity magazine is if it is fixed.

What law says this?

Quiet
12-13-2009, 1:01 PM
What law says this?

PC 12276.1(a)(2)

Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Technical Ted
12-13-2009, 1:06 PM
What law says this?
12276.1(a)(2) http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:...(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Nothing restricting the use of legally owned "detachable" magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.

johnrunner89
12-13-2009, 1:11 PM
PC 12276.1(a)(2)

Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

ahhh I see I overlooked that. Thanks for the heads up.

Greg-Dawg
12-13-2009, 3:07 PM
New avatar greg? nice.

Self portrait honey bunch.

aplinker
12-13-2009, 7:33 PM
My short write-up on how to make a compliant rifle:

This write-up is meant to describe how to avoid building a legal receiver as a type-3 assault weapon.

As such, it assumes you're not building on a receiver listed in the original Roberti-Roos (type 1) list or the Kasler list (type 2). Listing is now required for type 2 AW (series) by the Harrot case and the Kasler list is now static, due to DOJ giving up that right.

That leaves type 3 AWs. By not falling under the classifications by features listed in the penal code we're able to build our guns to be legally compliant and not considered an AW. This goes for any rifle type - if it doesn't fall into type 1, 2 or 3 and is not a 50BMG rifle.

Here's the 1st section:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the
capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of
the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

What this says is that, assuming the gun is not an AW by 12276 (i.e., listed by make and model) it can still be an AW if it has any features and is built adhering to the definition given.

The 1st sentence contains 3 conditions: the rifle is semi-automatic, centerfire and with a detachable magazine. The 4th condition is having any (or all) of the features listed. To build an assault weapon by features the rifle must contain all conditions from the first sentence (semi-auto, centerfire and detachable mags) along with at least one of the features listed.

This gives us 4 ways to avoid having an assault weapon, as avoiding any one of these 4 conditions prevents meeting this definition of type-3 assault weapon.

Thus, most of the guns you see here are built either:
S1.) Having no features listed above (MMG, U-15, M1A, Saiga)
S2.) Using a bullet button (or Prince50, JumboPandaLock, Raddlock, JJPerl) to lock the magazine in place, thus allowing the rifle to have those features.
S3.) Building the rifle for .22lr (notice the definition says centerfire)
S4.) A gas system that doesn't operate (bolt-action repeater instead of semi-auto)

Lastly, there are conditions that must be met for the above types of rifles:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic..... (snip)
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a
fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an
overall length of less than 30 inches.

Now it's important to match these two additional conditions where they have relevance.

12276.1(a)-2 only applies to a fixed magazine rifle (S2 types from above - bullet button, SKS, etc) types. It requires that the magazine used only be 10rds or less. Thus, it only applies to our non-detachable magazine varieties. All other types can have any capacity available to them* (see below) Styles S1, S3 and S4 would not fall under this requirement and would be allowed to use those magazines.

12276.1(a)-3 only applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles. This includes both featureless and fixed-magazine rifles (S1 and S2 from above). That means they would need to be over 30" OAL (when measured with the stock collapsed or folded by CA court case law). Both styles of rifles that are non-semi-auto repeater (S4) or rimfire (S3) would only fall under california's definition for needing all long guns over 26" (with stock folded or collapsed).

Lastly, the rifle can not be capable of chambering the 50BMG cartridge, as described in 12278.



That concludes ALL possible ways to make a rifle (not pistol or shotgun) in California.