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Vanguard
12-05-2009, 1:40 PM
Just got off the phone with my dad, who was standing in the CMP store (Garand heaven) in Ohio. He said there were rack after rack of rifles there. :)

Anyway, long story short, I will be receiving my "new" Springfield Service Grade Garand next week....straight to my door. :D

I've been waiting a long time for this rifle. It's going to be awesome owning a piece of American history (yes, I know it's been reworked). I can't wait to take it out and shoot it!

On that note, does anyone know where I can get some decently priced .30-06 ammo? That $@#$ is expensive! The cheapest I've seen is about .90 cents a round.

reidnez
12-05-2009, 1:42 PM
Kudos! I absolutely love my Garand, it's my favorite rifle by far.

As far as ammo, it can be tough to find. .30-06 is military obsolete, and nobody has made any M2 ball (as far as I know) since the 70's. There have, however, been reports that CMP is about to obtain several million more rounds of Greek HXP, which would be great. Get your paperwork in with CMP now so that you can order some whenever it becomes available. Until then, it can be found on the private market but as you said it's pretty pricey, for surplus at least. I paid about $100 per 192-rd can.

Your other options are to either reload, or buy an adjustable gas plug so that you can safely fire commercial ammunition. But commercial ammo ain't that cheap, either. It's just easy to find.

Huzar
12-05-2009, 1:43 PM
Look at the CMP website. Btw, use only military suprlus ammo.

CSDGuy
12-05-2009, 2:06 PM
Hornady makes an M1 Garand specific load. It's not, however, cheap. It is supposed to be match or very close to match quality though. There may also be another manufacturer of M1 Garand loads, but I forget which one it is...

The Hornady stuff was issued at one of the matches last year and apparently people loved it. I have yet to get some for myself... but I will eventually, just to see how my Garand does with it.

run8
12-05-2009, 2:11 PM
Speaking of your new Garand, congrats to you.

I was looking at Atlantic Firearms browsing, and I chuckled at what they listed as a "CA legal" Garand.....okay are they going on the fact that it only holds 8 rounds? Or did they go and do something to the ones they are offering?

reidnez
12-05-2009, 2:50 PM
Speaking of your new Garand, congrats to you.

I was looking at Atlantic Firearms browsing, and I chuckled at what they listed as a "CA legal" Garand.....okay are they going on the fact that it only holds 8 rounds? Or did they go and do something to the ones they are offering?

I'm not sure they would have done...the M1 is both featureless and fixed-magazine, so it's pretty safe as far as CA law goes! It's a pretty silly way to advertise it, IMO. Some people might get the impression that they have to specifically look for a "CA-legal" Garand, which of course is false.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 3:01 PM
So wait the M1 Garands can't just shoot any .30-06 round? Thats not what the guy at Big 5 told me. So....?

m1match
12-05-2009, 3:06 PM
No Garands cannot shoot any 30-06 round. Go to some of the dedicated M1 Garand websites for more info. The problem is the Garand was designed around the military 30-06 loads using medium rate burning powders like IMR 4895 or 4064 and medium weight bullets in the 150 to 175 grain weight. Loads using much heavier bullets or slower burning powders will tend to have higher gas port pressures which will cause higher gas forces on the operating rod. This will at the least cause more battering of the action leading to shorter service lives of the gun or worse, bending the operating rod leading to the need for a repair.

Are you OK shooting an off the shelf 30-06 ammo with 150 grain hunting bullets? You would probably be fine shooting those, but if you start shooting stuff like the Hornady Light Magnum ammo, which was engineered to generate higher velocities with heavier bullets out of the '06 cartridge, you might start running into problems with your Garand. One of great things about the CMP is you can also mail order military surplus 30-06 ammo from them at very good prices. Look up the CMP website for their current inventory.

sevensix2x51
12-05-2009, 3:08 PM
So wait the M1 Garands can't just shoot any .30-06 round? Thats not what the guy at Big 5 told me. So....?

well, i hope this helps. no guarantee it will. my garand is chambered for 7.62x51. it uses the same gas system as the .30-06 version, with no adjustable gas plug. i have used commercial .308 win, surplus 7.62 nato, and several different handload experimenting with powders and bullets, and the rifle has performed flawlessly throughout. i think the whole "surplus necessity" for the garand is overhyped... personal opinion and experience, only.


No Garands cannot shoot any 30-06 round. Go to some of the dedicated M1 Garand websites for more info. The problem is the Garand was designed around the military 30-06 loads using medium rate burning powders like IMR 4895 or 4064 and medium weight bullets in the 150 to 175 grain weight. Loads using much heavier bullets or slower burning powders will tend to have higher gas port pressures which will cause higher gas forces on the operating rod. This will at the least cause more battering of the action leading to shorter service lives of the gun or worse, bending the operating rod leading to the need for a repair.

but then again, i think most of my tinkering has been in the confines of medium speed powder and projectiles in that weight range... so i guess it doesnt help... :confused:

X-NewYawker
12-05-2009, 3:09 PM
Get that CMP sardine can of pre loaded enbloc clips on a canvas bandolier.
$110 for 192 rounds.

Kudos! I absolutely love my Garand, it's my favorite rifle by far.

As far as ammo, it can be tough to find. .30-06 is military obsolete, and nobody has made any M2 ball (as far as I know) since the 70's. There have, however, been reports that CMP is about to obtain several million more rounds of Greek HXP, which would be great. Get your paperwork in with CMP now so that you can order some whenever it becomes available. Until then, it can be found on the private market but as you said it's pretty pricey, for surplus at least. I paid about $100 per 192-rd can.

Your other options are to either reload, or buy an adjustable gas plug so that you can safely fire commercial ammunition. But commercial ammo ain't that cheap, either. It's just easy to find.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 4:28 PM
well, i hope this helps. no guarantee it will. my garand is chambered for 7.62x51. it uses the same gas system as the .30-06 version, with no adjustable gas plug. i have used commercial .308 win, surplus 7.62 nato, and several different handload experimenting with powders and bullets, and the rifle has performed flawlessly throughout. i think the whole "surplus necessity" for the garand is overhyped... personal opinion and experience, only.

but then again, i think most of my tinkering has been in the confines of medium speed powder and projectiles in that weight range... so i guess it doesnt help... :confused:

It is not overhyped. If you have gotten away with it so far, count your blessings.

sevensix2x51
12-05-2009, 4:31 PM
It is not overhyped. If you have gotten away with it so far, count your blessings.

ok, what surplus 7.62x51 is built for the m1 garand? ill gladly try it out... :confused:

popeye4
12-05-2009, 4:32 PM
Kudos! I absolutely love my Garand, it's my favorite rifle by far.

As far as ammo, it can be tough to find. .30-06 is military obsolete, and nobody has made any M2 ball (as far as I know) since the 70's. There have, however, been reports that CMP is about to obtain several million more rounds of Greek HXP, which would be great. Get your paperwork in with CMP now so that you can order some whenever it becomes available. Until then, it can be found on the private market but as you said it's pretty pricey, for surplus at least. I paid about $100 per 192-rd can.

Your other options are to either reload, or buy an adjustable gas plug so that you can safely fire commercial ammunition. But commercial ammo ain't that cheap, either. It's just easy to find.

I believe I received a note from the CMP a couple weeks back to that effect (more Greek on the way). You can't mail order the Greek ammo right now, but if the OP's dad was in the store, he might have been able to buy some there.

I went to the CMP South store in May and picked up quite a few cans of the Greek stuff with a friend. He is an officer in a registered CMP club, though, so they might have waived the purchase limit for him.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 4:33 PM
ok, what surplus 7.62x51 is built for the m1 garand? ill gladly try it out...

Surplus is fine, it uses the same powder (4895 or equivalent) as the Garand (the M14 has a similar limit on powder burn rate). If you are using commercial, you can get into problems.

sevensix2x51
12-05-2009, 4:38 PM
Surplus is fine, it uses the same powder (4895 or equivalent) as the Garand (the M14 has a similar limit on powder burn rate). If you are using commercial, you can get into problems.

hm, i guess thats why i havent noticed any problems. ive been mostly using sierra 168mk's with powder weights in the low 40's....

Ravenslair
12-05-2009, 4:39 PM
Unfortunately, CMP limits you to eight cans of ammo per year now (I think it is eight cans). I recommend either buying all eight at once, or a can every five or so weeks. It will run out some day. No point in being the last one in line for ammo.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 4:48 PM
Unfortunately, CMP limits you to eight cans of ammo per year now (I think it is eight cans). I recommend either buying all eight at once, or a can every five or so weeks. It will run out some day. No point in being the last one in line for ammo.

Last time I checked they weren't accepting on line orders.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 5:39 PM
No Garands cannot shoot any 30-06 round. Go to some of the dedicated M1 Garand websites for more info. The problem is the Garand was designed around the military 30-06 loads using medium rate burning powders like IMR 4895 or 4064 and medium weight bullets in the 150 to 175 grain weight. Loads using much heavier bullets or slower burning powders will tend to have higher gas port pressures which will cause higher gas forces on the operating rod. This will at the least cause more battering of the action leading to shorter service lives of the gun or worse, bending the operating rod leading to the need for a repair.

Are you OK shooting an off the shelf 30-06 ammo with 150 grain hunting bullets? You would probably be fine shooting those, but if you start shooting stuff like the Hornady Light Magnum ammo, which was engineered to generate higher velocities with heavier bullets out of the '06 cartridge, you might start running into problems with your Garand. One of great things about the CMP is you can also mail order military surplus 30-06 ammo from them at very good prices. Look up the CMP website for their current inventory.


I buy cheapest ammo I can find and I think the .30-06 I have is 150 grain, its made by Remington, I had some 170 grain, so that would be bad to shoot right?

reidnez
12-05-2009, 6:17 PM
I buy cheapest ammo I can find and I think the .30-06 I have is 150 grain, its made by Remington, I had some 170 grain, so that would be bad to shoot right?

Bullet weight is not so much the problem, although you don't want to shoot 180gr. bullets out of a Garand. It's the powder burn rate which is the problem; commercial powders tend to burn slower than M2 Ball's 4895, which means there is higher pressure hitting the gas port as the bullet passes. The M1's operating rod is completely unsupported and is bent by design...so when that higher port pressure slams into your piston, the force travels back to that bend and tweaks the op-rod. That's not at all a critique of the design; Mr. Garand designed the rifle to digest M2 ball, and it does that fantastically well.

Granted, some guys have gotten away with it for years, or have a certain kind of commercial ammo which they swear by in their Garand--good on them. Personally, I'm not going to take the risk. I will shoot only M2 ball or trusted, equivalent reloads.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 6:22 PM
So you can't buy M2 Ball anymore, except reloads? oooh thats lame.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 6:38 PM
Check out this thread: http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=36892

It would indicate that Remington ammo is not suitable, no matter what the bullet weight is.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 7:03 PM
So you can't buy M2 Ball anymore, except reloads? oooh thats lame.

Nah, it's supply and demand. Lots of demand now, especially since Big O's election, but no nation has needed to manufacture .30-06 for military uses since probably the 1980's at the latest.

CMP is scrounging around for surplus ammo (hence, their supposed acquisition of more Greek ammo) and I understand they have a supply contract with Hornady to provide the match issue ammo at Camp Perry, but I'm sure that stuff will be much more expensive than the milsurp.

BTW, they put a limit on how much they'll sell to an individual as there were some unscrupulous resellers that were buying low at CMP and selling high on their own sites.....

Milsurp Collector
12-05-2009, 8:13 PM
On that note, does anyone know where I can get some decently priced .30-06 ammo? That $@#$ is expensive! The cheapest I've seen is about .90 cents a round.

The CMP will have M2 ammo available again early next year.

The CMP has been successful in acquiring another large quantity of HXP .30-06 ammo. We expect delivery in Jan 2010 and should have the ammo ready for sale by Feb or Mar. Until we actually receive and inspect the ammo, we will not know what packaging configurations will be available, but expect them to be the same as we have had for the past few years. We do not yet know what our final cost will be. We do know that the quantity is large enough to satisfy our customer needs for several years. We will not accept any pre-orders or establish a waiting list. Thanks for your support and patience.

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2184


So wait the M1 Garands can't just shoot any .30-06 round? Thats not what the guy at Big 5 told me. So....?

The M1 (Garand) Rifle is designed to shoot only M2 ammo. Shooting commercial .30-06 ammo in a stock Garand risks damaging the rifle (bent op rod).

However, you can shoot commercial .30-06 ammo if you install an adjustable gas plug. The two products available are the McCann http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/scope/parts.html and the Schuster http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=9&categoryid=12513&categorystring=10636***10560***9260***12508***

Both adjustable gas plugs install easily and replace the standard gas cylinder lock screw. Both are adjustable to regulate the amount of gas used to cycle the action. Some Garand shooters use them even when shooting M2 ammo, to reduce recoil and wear and tear on the rifle.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 10:30 PM
I want to shoot my M1 Garand when I pick it up on Tuesday but I guess I'll have to wait.

Are those gas plugs easy to install? Lower the value of the rifle at all?

I also need this rifles for my WW2 Reenacting and we shoot blanks. Should not have much problems with it, because there blanks. I no I need to get the blank fire adapter for it, but that installs at the muzzle of the rifle.

popeye4
12-05-2009, 10:34 PM
I want to shoot my M1 Garand when I pick it up on Tuesday but I guess I'll have to wait.

Are those gas plugs easy to install? Lower the value of the rifle at all?

I also need this rifles for my WW2 Reenacting and we shoot blanks. Should not have much problems with it, because there blanks. I no I need to get the blank fire adapter for it, but that installs at the muzzle of the rifle.

The gas plug is easy to install, it just screws in. You need a big screwdriver, the M1 tool, or a Swiss Army knife to unscrew the stock plug. I don't use an adjustable plug, so I don't know how they screw in.

Can't help on the blank adapter....

Where are you located? Most CMP affiliated clubs have scheduled orientations. I know the San Jose Zouaves have a monthly "practice" match (which just occurred today) where you can draw ammo and one of the old hands will walk you through the Garand. You can find a club local to you on the CMP page.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't need help with the blank adapter, all that does is lets the gas flow back so its still Semi auto, without it all the gas goes out the front and you have will have to pull the bolt back everytime.

Ok all I wanted to no if it was easy to install and there pretty cheap to get, thanks for all the help :)

Also which do you use?

popeye4
12-05-2009, 10:40 PM
I don't use an adjustable plug, I shoot the Greek stuff I bought last year.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 10:41 PM
ooh willing to share?

By adjustable, does that mean you can adjust it? like change settings?

scr83jp
12-05-2009, 10:42 PM
The CMP will have M2 ammo available again early next year.





The M1 (Garand) Rifle is designed to shoot only M2 ammo. Shooting commercial .30-06 ammo in a stock Garand risks damaging the rifle (bent op rod).

However, you can shoot commercial .30-06 ammo if you install an adjustable gas plug. The two products available are the McCann http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/scope/parts.html and the Schuster http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=9&categoryid=12513&categorystring=10636***10560***9260***12508***

Both adjustable gas plugs install easily and replace the standard gas cylinder lock screw. Both are adjustable to regulate the amount of gas used to cycle the action. Some Garand shooters use them even when shooting M2 ammo, to reduce recoil and wear and tear on the rifle.www.mccannindustries.com has an adjustable gas system plus they convert garands to 458 & 338. I used mil surplus brass and hornaday 150gr FMJ bullets with the reloading data in the 3/86 American Rifleman article Reloading for the M1 Rifle for garand matches and deer hunting.

NaughtyMonkey
12-05-2009, 10:49 PM
I ain't going to convert my garand to shoot anything besides what it was made for, I think thats ruining the rifle and its history, I'm only going to add the gas plug so I don't ruin the rifle.

scr83jp
12-05-2009, 11:26 PM
I ain't going to convert my garand to shoot anything besides what it was made for, I think thats ruining the rifle and its history, I'm only going to add the gas plug so I don't ruin the rifle.

You need a copy of the 3/86 American Rifleman article Reloading for the M1 Rifle.When I started qual matches I had lots of help from our club members who were ww2 combat veterans with lots of garand experience and loading data.I reloaded military and commercial brass with IMR 4895 using the am rifleman data .

scr83jp
12-06-2009, 8:50 PM
Just got off the phone with my dad, who was standing in the CMP store (Garand heaven) in Ohio. He said there were rack after rack of rifles there. :)

Anyway, long story short, I will be receiving my "new" Springfield Service Grade Garand next week....straight to my door. :D

I've been waiting a long time for this rifle. It's going to be awesome owning a piece of American history (yes, I know it's been reworked). I can't wait to take it out and shoot it!

On that note, does anyone know where I can get some decently priced .30-06 ammo? That $@#$ is expensive! The cheapest I've seen is about .90 cents a round. I reloaded commercial brass using hornaday 150g fmj bt, 48.5gr of imr 4895,cci lr primer for garand matches,then I saw an ad at fed ord in S El Monte CA 800 round cases of 1942 & 1943 Denver 30-06 M2 ammo in linkbelt with every 5th tracer round removed.I bought a case for about $90 for myself & 4 for other members of our gun club.get yourself a copy of the 3/86 american rifleman article reloading for the m1 rifle the article covers sierra matchking bullets from 150gr thru 200gr and lots of interesting garand info.

scr83jp
12-06-2009, 9:02 PM
Look at the CMP website. Btw, use only military suprlus ammo. one can load commercial brass using hornaday fmj bt 150gr bullets, imr 4895. I've got the data I loaded 06 commercial & mil surplus brass as did all of the WW2 vets in our gun club for their garands.I shot matches with commercial & mil surplus brass.American Rifleman 3/86 article Reloading For the M1 Rifle.

scr83jp
12-06-2009, 9:25 PM
I buy cheapest ammo I can find and I think the .30-06 I have is 150 grain, its made by Remington, I had some 170 grain, so that would be bad to shoot right? DON"T use commercial ammo you have no idea what powder is being used and what the port pressure will be!The WW2 members of our gun club used garands in combat and bought them after discharge they said use IMR 4895 & 150gr bullets so I took their word,I've been using garands since 1970's,my usaf service rifle in 1953 was an m2 carbine.Never got to handle an M1 until the 1970's it was owned by a ww2 vet who let me use his for a qual match at the Hi Desert Gun Club of Yucca Valley,CA then I set up approved m1 matches for our gun club ran them for about 7 years.I always reload my garand ammo using IMR 4895 and 150gr fmj bt hornaday bullets for matches.For colorado mule deer hunting I switched to 165gr nosler ballistic tip bullets but still used IMR 4895.

Vanguard
12-06-2009, 9:51 PM
So, how many guys have had luck shooting commercial ammo with an adjustable gas plug? Any problems with this?

I know the ideal method would be to get surplus m2 ball or the greek HXC stuff but that seems to be a little tough to get. I'd like to go the gas plug method so I can shoot commercial ammo but I don't want my op rod beat to $@#%.

NaughtyMonkey
12-07-2009, 1:21 PM
So, how many guys have had luck shooting commercial ammo with an adjustable gas plug? Any problems with this?

I know the ideal method would be to get surplus m2 ball or the greek HXC stuff but that seems to be a little tough to get. I'd like to go the gas plug method so I can shoot commercial ammo but I don't want my op rod beat to $@#%.


Yeah I have the same question here.

Also which gas plug would be best?

sevensix2x51
12-07-2009, 1:38 PM
Yeah I have the same question here.

Also which gas plug would be best?

i would go with the one with the biggest hole, then size down until it functions properly. that way you would have the least amount of force required to reliably cycle the weapon. that's just how i would do it. somebody else may have a better way.

Vanguard
12-07-2009, 1:58 PM
Yeah I have the same question here.

Also which gas plug would be best?


I just ordered the Shuster gas plug from Midway after reading about them. It seems to work well for the people who are using them. I think I might start reloading to M2 ammo specs though...depends on the cost/time envolved. Surplus ammo seems to be getting tougher and tougher to find. I wish it wasn't such a hassle to be able to shoot these rifles. :(

Milsurp Collector
12-07-2009, 3:38 PM
I think I might start reloading to M2 ammo specs though...depends on the cost/time envolved. Surplus ammo seems to be getting tougher and tougher to find. I wish it wasn't such a hassle to be able to shoot these rifles. :(

The 7th ed. of the Hornady reloading handbook has M1 Garand-specific reloading data, pp. 478-480.

The CMP will have surplus M2 ammo available again in a few months. Keep checking their sales page starting in Feb. 2010 http://www.thecmp.org/ammosales.htm

NaughtyMonkey
12-07-2009, 10:01 PM
i would go with the one with the biggest hole, then size down until it functions properly. that way you would have the least amount of force required to reliably cycle the weapon. that's just how i would do it. somebody else may have a better way.


How do you size it down? Also how do you no when its the least amount of force? I just want to make it to where I can shoot normal .30-06 rounds from like Big 5 without it breaking. lol.

Vanguard
12-07-2009, 10:36 PM
How do you size it down? Also how do you no when its the least amount of force? I just want to make it to where I can shoot normal .30-06 rounds from like Big 5 without it breaking. lol.

It comes with instructions on how to make it work correctly. I think you just open it up and start closing it until the action starts functioning and you don't have to manually pull the bolt back anymore, then turn it 1/2 to 1 full turns more to ensure proper functioning. That's the way I understood it anyway.

I'm just not sure if you have to readjust it for every type of new ammo you buy (which would suck) or you just keep one setting for all commercial ammo and go back to the full closed for surplus M2 ammo.

sevensix2x51
12-08-2009, 5:49 AM
How do you size it down? Also how do you no when its the least amount of force? I just want to make it to where I can shoot normal .30-06 rounds from like Big 5 without it breaking. lol.
it just takes a little common sense... There are like 5 cap screws in the mccann kit, each with a hole drilled through it. Start with the one with the biggest hole, then work your way down until the ammo you like cycles properly. Ive never used the kit, but from the photo of the kit, its not hard to figure out.

NaughtyMonkey
12-08-2009, 9:19 AM
Well I no I could figure it out but I just wanted to ask from the people who have already done this. Just to learn the most from it. I'm going to pick up my M1 Garand today. :) I'll order a Adjustable gas plug online. Thanks everyone for the help.

Vanguard
12-08-2009, 10:22 AM
The Fed Ex guy just dropped off my rifle!

Man this thing is sweet. The CMP does great work. The rifle looks brand new even though it has an early 1950's serial number. This thing is definately a shooter. I'll buy an older beat up one later to hang on the wall but I'm shooting this one!

:D:D:D:D:D

NaughtyMonkey
12-08-2009, 2:51 PM
I just picked mine up today from Big 5, Its a Winchester and from the Serial it was made in October of 1942. Mine you can tell has been threw at least one war lol. haha. But I'm going to shoot it. Use it for my reenacting as well. I want to get that adjustable gas plug though.

Milsurp Collector
12-08-2009, 3:02 PM
The Fed Ex guy just dropped off my rifle!

Man this thing is sweet. The CMP does great work. The rifle looks brand new even though it has an early 1950's serial number. This thing is definately a shooter. I'll buy an older beat up one later to hang on the wall but I'm shooting this one!

:D:D:D:D:D

I just picked mine up today from Big 5, Its a Winchester and from the Serial it was made in October of 1942. Mine you can tell has been threw at least one war lol. haha. But I'm going to shoot it. Use it for my reenacting as well. I want to get that adjustable gas plug though.

:useless:

NaughtyMonkey
12-08-2009, 3:19 PM
Here are the pictures of my rifle. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3467953#post3467953

So this thread can stay worthless. haha.