View Full Version : Arnold is all done.

11-09-2005, 10:44 AM
Terminated. Arnold is now a big steaming political gutpile. It would take the charisma of Ronald Reagan to pull Arnold out of this one. Arnold is no Ronald. So, the question is: who is going to step up over that big crater and be our next pro-gun Governor?

11-09-2005, 11:02 AM
The only way to get a pro-gun governor in there now is if it were a pro-gun democrat. A republican will not win considering how it is going for them nationally and local. If Ahnold gets re-elected, I would be surprised.:eek:

11-09-2005, 4:25 PM
More fitting terms would be to say that California is done. The Governor can only do so much. His measures pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as some of the things that needed to change. Can you beleive people don't care about "gerrymandering"? I guess they don't care about being fairly represented, they just want to go on being ignorant.

Much of the rhetoric is just that, and it is spawned from our biased media that we hear and read every day.

11-09-2005, 4:52 PM
Heck, I'll take Arnie over Gray. I think Cali is done for. I'm just so sick of the stupid poeple in this state. I'd like to move to Montana where I can have any gun I want and shoot on my own land. How cool would it be to have your own 100 yard range in your backyard. I have a few friend there and they all shot in their backyards. The average price for a home in my area is $700,000. These are not big homes, these are 2-3 bedroom homes with no land. I'm sick of it.

This was just e-mail to me right now and I had to post it.....

Due to the popularity of the Survivor's shows, Montana is planning to do its own, titled "Survivor - Montana Style."

The contestants will start in Billings, travel over to Bozeman and onto Butte. Then they will head north to Helena, Great Falls, Conrad and Shelby.

From there they will proceed east on to Havre and Malta. Then they will go south to Grassrange and Roundup and the final leg will be back to Billings.

Each will be driving a pink Volvo with California license plates and a large bumper sticker that reads:

"I'm gay. I'm a Vegetarian. Beer is harmful to your health. Republicans suck. Hillary in 2008. Deer hunting is murder, and I'm here to confiscate your guns."

The first one that makes it back to Billings alive wins. Good luck to all contestants.

11-09-2005, 5:56 PM
It's definately not over yet. The good fight needs to be fought. Just because some propositions don't make it doesn't mean things are over, not by a long shot. The grabbers made a huge effort and spent millions opposing the special elections and every reform.

11-09-2005, 6:07 PM
Agreed, eventually (maybe not for awhile, but eventually) people will come to their senses. As for Cali being done, any one know what the laws are like in Wyo? Cause I know where to get MASSIVE amounts of land for very reasonable prices (Just imagine, a mile range in your own back yard!)

11-09-2005, 10:22 PM
Actually, the "biased" media (y' know... the oft and overused "liberal left news") was in fact very supportive of Schwarzenegger's initiatives. In fact, even Gray Davis himself had supported prop. 77.

Yep, I have a political mailing from Arnold supporting all 4 of Arnold's proposals that is endorsed by the Chronicle and the Mercury News.

11-10-2005, 7:19 AM
Good riddance. I still can't understand why people voted him in over McClintock. Arnold was a buffoon during the debates and other than the "Cool, we have Arnold as governor!" I could not see any reason to vote for him.

The nice thing is I hear McClintock is running for Lt. Governor. We still might get him next term if the governor elect chokes to death on all of the pork. :D

11-10-2005, 11:30 AM
Cause I know where to get MASSIVE amounts of land for very reasonable prices (Just imagine, a mile range in your own back yard!)

did you see the same t.v. commercial I saw yesterday!! haha :)

11-10-2005, 1:33 PM
Nope. Dont watch much tv right now. Mostly I am thinking about the time I was on a road trip and drove through it. All those signs for "800+ acres" make me really want to move out there (I checked, apparently the brady bunch is pissed at wyo, so I figure it must be good :D

11-10-2005, 2:08 PM
I still can't understand why people voted him in over McClintock.

Because, simply put, Tom McClintock can't win in this electorate, and with that field. Simple analysis of the elections' results showed that; he'd've lost by several percent to the Cruzamonte.

I like Tom too. Good guy.

But Arnie had a huge number of crossover votes that carried him in; he was also aided by his 'star presence', diluted opposition, and general revulsion towards Gray Davis. If Arnie were not in that race, and all other things were otherwise the same, Tom McC would lose to Cruz Bustamente since the crossover votes would go 2/3 -1/3 to Democrat frontrunner.

McC's gerneral conservatism is less a liability than overall perception of being antiabortion. That's the big killer nut in CA elections - any R running should keep his mouth shut about it. It will never change. Furthermore, these folks are often perceived as religious right in addition to the pro-life issue; religion scares lotsa folks (Kansas teaching creationism instead of evolution in schools, anyone?)

"Choice" issue is always amongst top 3 items of significance in Democrat and crossover voter interviews. Gun control is actually 7th - 9th down the list of concerns The moment 'choice' is removed from the field of play, a pro-gun fiscal conservative can win.

Bluntly put - just by cause & effect - Christian conservatives/pro-lifers are increasing gun control in California statewide elections.

These folks can get a guy into the primaries yet who can't win statewide, and this allows antigun Democrats to win instead. A pro-gun 'pro-choice' R candidate could win: his gun beliefs would not be nearly the political liability that a conservative's prolife beliefs would be, statewide.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

11-11-2005, 6:04 PM
Bill, I could not agree more. A conservative Christian/anti-abortion candidate can easily when the Republican nomination but that dog will not hunt in an open election here. As much as Arnold is a boob he did represent a social moderate/fiscal conservative and that helped him a lot. How about a pro-gun Democrat, there has got to be one somewhere...:confused:

11-11-2005, 8:12 PM
Pro-gun democrat? Gloria Negrete D-Chino is pretty much pro-gun voted against ab352 as did Joe Baca D-San Bernardino. As I stated before, both are running for the Senate seat that Nell Soto (who is anti-gun) who will leave because of term limits. It is a win for us in the Senate, but who will take their place (of whoever wins) in the assembly, hopefully someone pro-gun.

11-11-2005, 8:26 PM
Here are more... well from their voting recent records democrats which voted against ab352:

Juan Arambula
Jerome Horton
Barbara Matthews
Nicole Parra
Tom Umberg

considering they voted Nay on something as extreme as ab352, it shows that at least they listen or are willing to.

11-12-2005, 10:46 AM
If AS still decides to run in 06, I'll have to vote for him,
unless the skies break open and a pro-gun candidate has
a VERY good chance of winning. I realize it stinks, but AS
has the vetoed anti gun bills as well as signed some.

Do I wish Mr.Tom would win ? You bet, and hands down.
But lets face it, there are more Dems than Republicans
here, and the sad part is a lot of those who are pro gun on
both sides don't vote, or vote for someone that may
have an even more important issue on their platform that
concerns them and their families and still be anti-gun.

A lot of gun owners here in Cal simply don't care.

But just think of what the left may offer in the next
election, Beatty, Meat head, or someone who was
even more rabid than Grey Davis, like Kevin Shelley..
How'd you like to see one of these characters in the
Gov's slot for 4 yrs..:eek:

Sorry. I have to vote for AS unless there is another
option/canidate who stands a chance and is pro-2A.

11-13-2005, 7:42 PM
They said that Nixon was done once. "You won't have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore..." He went on to win the presidency, end that war in Vietnam, normalize relations with China and add a suffix onto every government scandal since. :D

11-13-2005, 9:45 PM
"Given those choices, I'm actually quite happy that I'm not a US citizen..."

I guess that says it all. If it's better where you are a citizen, then you should return there to Utopia.

Oh, and BTW, nobody is forced to vote here.

I am a native Californian, and as screwed up as we are, we are still way better off than any foreign country I know of, and I've been in a few. In Kuwait City you can buy an 870 Rem, with the approval of the Shiek, for around 1600 Dinars. That's just at $3500 American.

I am not happy at all with the situation here in the PRK. But, I was born here, and at least for the near term I will stay here. While I and others all agree that it is not good here for our gun rights, it is tolerable, and we shall fight the good fight. Where I live, in Madera county, there is not a problem at all.

11-13-2005, 10:49 PM
Hey... what do you get when you put the word "Republican" after Gray Davis's name?


Seriously... Davis banned AR-15s and AKs, Arnold banned .50 BMGs. What's the difference other than a few unsuccessful propositions.

Which, might I mention everyone voting NO on Arnold's propositions and then patting themselves on the back for it confused the heck out of me! Wasn't the whole point of removing Davis from office to NOT remain with the status quo?

Oh well.. I guess if an electorate is crazy enough to pass SB-23 they're crazy enough to do just about anything...

11-13-2005, 11:07 PM
Including, I hope, pass the RKBA

11-14-2005, 12:35 AM
Very good analysis. Completely agree.

this leads to a real problem: I have two candidates to chose from. One is a republican, who would like to ban abortion, make evangelical Christianity the state religion, destroy education, strip away civil rights from minorities (such as immigrants and gays), and reduce the taxes on the rich (while higher taxes on the poor and middle class making up the shortfall).

We may agree on part of the electoral analysis, but not on further details you mention.... You must be a European, it would seem...

I'm a nonreligious/antireligious conservative with some but not all small-L libertarian streaks. But I have no problem with abortion bans - at least later-term ones - all I was saying is that it won't be approved by (or resolved by) California electorate so no one should campaign about it. If that leads to violence at abortion clinics, fine by me. just as long as explosive debris/residue does not ruin the wax job on my truck as it drives by. Of course, I believe anyone who has (or causes to exist) an abortion deserves sterilization, just as those on long-term welfare do. [Or, I would add, many on California civil service salaries, but then some gov't employees here don't agree with me ;) ]

Destroy education? How is reducing education funding 'destroying' it? Really, our issue in US is not necessarily bad school systems per se but tolerance thereof by bad parents, or parents assuming that they can take a hands-off approach to their kids' education. More money does not equal better schools; I always vote against all bond/tax issues. Teachers both isolated from their students' outcomes and constrained by ossified managment not allowing them to control their classrooms is an unhealthy duality. Having fewer nonachieving students likely will improve schools; removal of continuous D & F students, discipline problems, and non-English speakers (or those who don't rapidly acquire English) will really help. There should be no state obligation to help those who don't want to learn or who obstruct others from learning. Set a high bar, and stick to it. You apparently are under the mistaken European notion that massive spending = good outcome.

I do agree that the Christian threat to schools w/respect to idiocy of so-called 'intelligent design' needs to be rapidly thwarted. But it's a fairly small threat compared to many kids not being able to read/write/count. When christian conservatives' children find themselves not being admitted to good colleges because they were schooled w/antievolution ID concepts - with consequent likely reduction in later earning potential - they'll come around. They'll stop being so preachy when all their kids can do is work as Walmart greeters while Chinese kids get the biotech jobs.

Strip away civil rights from immigrants & gays? Please show me in US constitution where these people are supposed get special rights or are a protected class. They are not.

Actually, if there were protected classes, I'd argue that gays come in before immigrants - they were born here. Heck, many of us will argue immigrants should have hardly any civil rights other than that we don't kill you and don't take your property. May make citizenship more worthy to appreciate what is gained.

and reduce the taxes on the rich (while higher taxes on the poor and middle class making up the shortfall).

Um, all tax brackets were reduced. How is that raising them?? And proportionally the drop on rich folks is very small, esp since rich folks often don't have 'ordinary income' but have investment income. I am not rich and I got several thousand dollars of tax cut in 2000 and later. I wish it were more. I admit that GWB has not reduced the size of government and it has increased under his watch; I think 9/11 threw him for a loop and he started listening to all the screaming soccer moms.

But one decent strategy is to strangulate the gov't by tax cuts so that eventually the deficit spending is untenable and major gov't layoffs have to happen - that is, force the situation. Fine with me, I'd love to see gov't employees in a food line.

Given those choices, I'm actually quite happy that I'm not a US citizen, but a permanent resident, so I'm not actually forced to vote for either of these two extremes.

Well, treelogger, clearly you're not happy here. So please go home. We do have problems but it's still the greatest place on earth. Perhaps you should go back to where you came from - oh, hey, wait a minute, there's no jobs there. That's one major reason why they're rioting in France.

You should be grateful you are here. We in the USA dislike rude guests - and if you are not a citizen, you are a guest.

Attempts to turning USA into anything like your Europe would be worth fighting the most violent, dirty, civil war ever conceived.

the primary election system in the US, coupled with the de-facto duopoly on political power (third parties can not come up given the winner-take-all election system) leads to polarization,

Polarization can be good. I don't want to elect someone that shares some polar opposite views from me. Otherwise we just get mush. Hell, to me GWB is not much of a conservative, but is more kind of a religious liberal.

But, overall, the two-party system avoids fragmentary systems and odd just-for-politics coalitions. Wasn't it a precommunist Poland that failed when its Sejm (parliament) had dozens upon dozens of parties, many of which only had one or 2 members?

Only occasionally do the parties generate centrist candidates (such as Clinton or Schwarzenegger); and often those get destroyed by their own party once they are in power.

Clinton a centrist? You GOTTA be kidding. From a euro standpoint, perhaps. But when Germany's Angela Merkel and France's Chirac are considered conservative, you know you're really in trouble.

The only reason Clinton made it in was due to Ross Perot (hey, there's that fragmentation thing!) and a weak GB#1 presidency - a mushy 'centrist' Republican that didn't stand for, or up for, much.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike Searson
11-14-2005, 8:04 AM
Great post, Bill...appears you and I do agree on more than I originally thought.

11-14-2005, 8:26 AM
Indeed Bill! Good post. While most consider me just to the right of Atilla the hun, I do have some serious Libertarian leanings. While it is not my intent to trash Treelogger, most Americans will go off when a non-citizen comments about our problems. Kinda like when your brother is a screw-up. You know it, he knows it, but nobody else better talk trash about it!

Getting back to politics, I consider myself to be so conservative I'm liberal. I believe we should just follow the Constitution, and that people should be free to do as they wish. That includes being a millionaire, or being a bum. I believe that the individual cities, counties and states should decide how they want their communities to be run. For example, if the majority of Californians don't want me to have an AR-15, then I just have to live with that or move. Conversely, if the citizens of Madera county support RKBA, I can easily get a CCW. There is a give and take here.

The bottom line is while it is not as good here for gun people here as it is in some places, it is still alot better here than most places.

11-14-2005, 8:36 AM
Bill, very good points. and 11Z50, I to have been compared to attila. However, I think most gun owners in Cali are actually more libertarian than the average gun owner in the rest of the US, both because we actually live here (so we must be fcked up somehow), and because we like guns. because we have one of the most restrictive GC laws, we, by the fact that we enjoy guns, are going to be more libertarian than say some one from Wyo, were they do not have to deal with the Govt preventing them from buying the guns that they want to.