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jnojr
11-09-2005, 7:26 AM
You have no other option than the RKBA initiative.

It's put up or shut up time. Our Legislature is going to keep giving us more of the same. The courts aren't going to help us without the RKBA amendment. Your choices are to help us qualify, and then pass, RKBA; or put a sock in it. The time for ranting and complaining is over. Writing letters is nice, but will never change anything. There is one option, and one option only.

http://www.tacr.us/

http://rkba.members.sonic.net/

Placebo
11-09-2005, 1:05 PM
You have no other option than the RKBA initiative.

I diagree. There are plenty of other options.

It's put up or shut up time. Our Legislature is going to keep giving us more of the same. The courts aren't going to help us without the RKBA amendment. Your choices are to help us qualify, and then pass, RKBA; or put a sock in it. The time for ranting and complaining is over. Writing letters is nice, but will never change anything. There is one option, and one option only.

I'm not trying to rain on the add-the-RKBA-clause-to-the-state-constitution parade, but are there any cites you or others can point out that example a case(s) where a state level RKBA clause was referenced in court or the legislature and it had a compelling and positive effect on the outcome?

IOW, where is the verifiable proof that this will help? I'm not doubting that it surely won't hinder the cause, I'm simply curious if this has actually been examined objectively.

jnojr
11-09-2005, 2:33 PM
I diagree. There are plenty of other options.

Like what? What other possibility is there? Getting good laws passed? BZZZT! Getting bad laws repealed? BZZZT! Replacing the legislature with a rights-friendly group? BZZZT!

There is no option at this point but the RKBA initiative. That, or nuking Sacramento and the Bay Area.

I'm not trying to rain on the add-the-RKBA-clause-to-the-state-constitution parade, but are there any cites you or others can point out that example a case(s) where a state level RKBA clause was referenced in court or the legislature and it had a compelling and positive effect on the outcome?

In and of itself, no. But that isn't all the initiative does. Read it again. Carefully. Then read http://www.wifcon.com/analadarscrutiny.htm

Placebo
11-09-2005, 3:38 PM
Like what? What other possibility is there? Getting good laws passed? BZZZT! Getting bad laws repealed? BZZZT! Replacing the legislature with a rights-friendly group? BZZZT!

There is no option at this point but the RKBA initiative. That, or nuking Sacramento and the Bay Area.

Rhetoric and misdirected anger aside, I think that perhaps you are vesting too much faith in the idea that the addition of a clear RKBA clause into the state constitution will leverage broad power in favor of us "gun nuts".

Again, I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but I don't see the doom and gloom you are presenting either. All is not lost.

In and of itself, no. But that isn't all the initiative does. Read it again. Carefully. Then read http://www.wifcon.com/analadarscrutiny.htm

I've read it and I'm aware of how the state's compelling interest and the idea of applying strict scrutiny is a good angle. In fact, I mentioned so much on another thread here regarding "gay" marriage and the legal parallels of just that as it relates to the RKBA.

My question was one asked in complete earnest and I think, judging by your insistence that adding RKBA is the only way, that it's not unfair to put the burden of proof upon you to illustrate it's effectiveness elsewhere.

I don't now, nor did I intend that as a flame. So I'll ask again, is there anything that supports the claim that, "It [the RKBA amendment] will also undermine attempts by local jurisdictions to restrict your right to keep and bear arms."??? (quoted directly from TACR website).


Further, in spite of claims on your links, the reality is that gun owners have been completely marginalized in the eyes of candidates seeking office and are viewed as an ineffective voting bloc. The evidence of this should be obvious; "gun nuts" will vote for lukewarm candidates who feign support for the 2A only to author or sign into law bills that run contrary to their claims.
...and that's just the ones who actually get out and vote.

"Candidates for political office will also find that this initiative represents one of the best issues upon which to base their campaign for office. ( Remember how Al Gore lost his own state of Tennessee in 2000? ) The Democrats have learned that hostility to gun rights can lose and election.

Conversely, so-called "pro-gun" Republican candidates prove over and over that they see no threat from gun owners voting them out of office and will step on their toes with complete impunity. It's time to get over the error-laden thinking that this is a black and white, partisan issue. It's not, and to most politicians, it's a total red herring to boot.

Charliegone
11-09-2005, 4:31 PM
Well, what do you suggest we do? We need to plan a strategy in order to get some of our rights back. The RKBA is not a bad idea, but other states have similar amendments or clauses in their constitution and still managed to pass AW laws. Still we have to do something. We can't let this go on!

magsnubby
11-09-2005, 6:56 PM
When i tried to use the e-mail address on the RKBA web site it tells me it's not a valid e-mail address. Anybody know the correct e-mail address?

jnojr
11-09-2005, 7:03 PM
When i tried to use the e-mail address on the RKBA web site it tells me it's not a valid e-mail address. Anybody know the correct e-mail address?

rkba@sonic.net

If you just can't get it to work, email me whatever contact info you want to appear... name, address, phone, and/or email, and I'll forward it to him. You can also send me the error you're getting, and i can see if I can tell what the problem is.

joliver@john-oliver.net

magsnubby
11-09-2005, 8:42 PM
Okay. I finally got it to work. Now we'll see what we can do to get the ball rolling.

Maybe print up some fliers to pass out at the local gun shops. We need to really get things rolling on this.