PDA

View Full Version : AR-15 vs. SCAR vs. Sig 556


cyrus
12-01-2009, 8:19 AM
AR-15 vs. SCAR vs. Sig 556

Ok when Obama fear was at the peak, I bought a Colt 6920 AR15 told the vendor to keep the reciever and ship the rest. I put it on a CMMG and was happy. But after shooting it is such a huge mess to clean (Federal XM193) compared to a other bolt rifles. I got to thinking about the SCAR and Sig 556. For around the same money a Sig can be had and a SCAR for +$500 more.

Are the SCAR and Sig 556 a whole new level? What are your thoughts?

tomd1584
12-01-2009, 8:54 AM
I have no experience with the SCAR and Sig 556, but just remember; your AR will function just fine as long as its lubed. Keep it oiled up and it doesnt matter how dirty it is.

MasterYong
12-01-2009, 10:55 AM
My ARs are easier to clean than any other semi-auto rifles I have.

Why are you comparing cleaning an AR to cleaning a bolt-action? Bolt rifles are probable the easiest rifles to disassemble and clean...

derwiking
12-01-2009, 11:01 AM
I'm curious as to what was so hard to clean with your AR? BCG, upper assembly?

nikonuser
12-01-2009, 11:01 AM
What I like about the AR is that you can customize it to your liking. So many accessories that may not be available with the SCAR and SIG. Also SCAR is so expensive you can buy 2 ARs with the price of one SCAR. SGC has 3 SCARS for sale at $2900 for a few weeks now and no one is buying it. Maybe its overrated.

THT
12-01-2009, 11:04 AM
My ARs are easier to clean than any other semi-auto rifles I have.

Why are you comparing cleaning an AR to cleaning a bolt-action? Bolt rifles are probable the easiest rifles to disassemble and clean...

Breaking down the bolt on a Remington 700 is a major PITA! :mad:

popeye4
12-01-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't think cleaning an AR is really much harder than cleaning a bolt rifle. And I hardly think that either a SCAR or a Sig 556 will be any easier.

Read these for AR maintenance info:

http://www.zediker.com/articles/maintenance_one.pdf
http://www.zediker.com/articles/maintenance_two.pdf
http://www.zediker.com/articles/maintenance_three.pdf

What's so hard about that?

MasterYong
12-01-2009, 11:25 AM
Breaking down the bolt on a Remington 700 is a major PITA! :mad:

You break down the bolt to clean it?

I've never taken any of my bolts apart on bolt-actions...

Should I be? Doesn't seem to affect accuracy or reliability yet...

Barney Gumble
12-01-2009, 11:41 AM
If cleaning is your issue with the AR platform, then don't do it so often. I rarely clean my ARs. I just lube the BCG. It's a myth (mostly perpetuated by the military) that an AR has to be white glove-clean.

THT
12-01-2009, 11:47 AM
You break down the bolt to clean it?

I've never taken any of my bolts apart on bolt-actions...

Should I be? Doesn't seem to affect accuracy or reliability yet...

Very rarely and mostly to satisfy my OCD to keep my precision rifle as clean as possible.

grunz
12-01-2009, 11:54 AM
I have no experience with the SCAR. I find the Sig 556 heavy, clunky and overall it feels hacked together and cheap.

More and more I find the AR system is a remarkably good overall design.

Jon Se
12-01-2009, 1:33 PM
Breaking down the bolt on a Remington 700 is a major PITA! :mad:

Pick up one of these and it'll take you about 2 seconds to remove the firing pin assembly from the bolt shroud.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=492351

Jon

TZL
12-01-2009, 1:38 PM
I disagree with Grunz

I have 10 AR platform guns and 2 Sig 556s

The AR is perfectly good and very versatile, however I really like my Sig 556s, i think the Sig 556 is very solid, too solid as its probably 1-1.5 lbs too heavy....i don't know where "clunky" comes from, maybe the stock fish gill forearms, but its no worse then std plastic handguards...

of course both of my SIG556s have Samson or SWAT handguards....much better, albeit a bit heavy

The trigger on the Sig556 is the best factory trigger around, even better than RRA or Timney ar triggers...I also find the Sig556 one of the smoothest shooting rifles around....

that being said, I can't wait for the SCAR-H....

xtalpimp
12-01-2009, 1:55 PM
I find the AR to be a pita to clean as well. The bolt locking area on the barrel end is impossible to get completely clean. I guess they just hard chrome it and hope for the best. You also can't clean the gas tube, it just gets replaced as it corrodes.

Bolt actions are way easy to clean but then that is not semi auto so it is not a fair comparison.

bondmid003
12-01-2009, 2:13 PM
What I like about the AR is that you can customize it to your liking. So many accessories that may not be available with the SCAR and SIG. Also SCAR is so expensive you can buy 2 ARs with the price of one SCAR. SGC has 3 SCARS for sale at $2900 for a few weeks now and no one is buying it. Maybe its overrated.

It isn't overrated people are just price gouging and thankfully people aren't biting.

jawcn
12-01-2009, 2:31 PM
if you want a piston rifle, go with scar. hope you can afford it in Cal, i saw someone selling it for $4000 at last weekend OC gunshow.
it is running about $2600 on gunbroker, but none of them is willing to ship Scar to Cal... too bad.
let me know if you can find scar in Cal for under $3k, i will go for it...

Jpach
12-01-2009, 3:12 PM
OP. If you have the money, get the SCAR. I have done a good amount of research on them and from what I understand, they kick serious ***. They are reliable as hell, ugly yet somehow super cool looking, and accurate as hell. FN somehow produces chrome lined barrels that are sub-moa accurate. I have read of several peoples' SCARs being sub MOA accurate and the same goes for every other CLd gun that FN makes.

The only thing I dont like about them is the price. Its rediculous. Here is a thread on civilian owned SCARs
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=293733&page=1

And here is a special ops? guy that has been issued a SCAR-L and SCAR-H
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=280622&page=1

From what I can tell, this is an awesome weapon system that is very clean, handles well, is very accurate, and very reliable (even without lube).

Again, I say go with the SCAR. Keep searching for prices below 2500

munkeeboi
12-01-2009, 3:15 PM
my scar has finally arrived and will be shipped out later this week. Got it for $2520 shipped, but had to wait for it (I was on a waitlist, so please don't ask me if there are anymore). I have the sig 556 and a a couple AR's. I like my AR's, but I really like my sig over it. Chances are I'll like the SCAR over both.

Jpach
12-01-2009, 3:30 PM
my scar has finally arrived and will be shipped out later this week. Got it for $2520 shipped, but had to wait for it (I was on a waitlist, so please don't ask me if there are anymore). I have the sig 556 and a a couple AR's. I like my AR's, but I really like my sig over it. Chances are I'll like the SCAR over both.

Very nice. Is that why you sold me the Golani :p ? Im shooting to get one of these within the next year or so. Youd better put together an EPIC range report when you get a chance. I want to see groups!

aermotor
12-01-2009, 4:40 PM
As long as it runs well, don't get too anal about cleanliness I'd say... or get a pistol conversion kit if that's your problem. Someone said "impossible to get completely clean" and I literally lol'ed at that...:Pirate:

aplinker
12-01-2009, 6:26 PM
I find the AR to be a pita to clean as well. The bolt locking area on the barrel end is impossible to get completely clean. I guess they just hard chrome it and hope for the best. You also can't clean the gas tube, it just gets replaced as it corrodes.

Bolt actions are way easy to clean but then that is not semi auto so it is not a fair comparison.

Cleaning a firearm isn't about making it bare metal - it's about removing build-up that can interfere with function & accuracy.

The gas tube is self cleaning. One should NEVER attempt to clean it - more problems are caused by attempts to clean it. The tube doesn't corrode - it does die over time due to heat, though. This has nothing to do with being "dirty."

pyro3k2
12-01-2009, 7:03 PM
this my seem like a very unresearched question, but wouldn't the folding stock make the SCAR not legal to own in CA unless it was modified to not flip? or am I understanding the rules incorrectly?

aermotor
12-01-2009, 7:12 PM
Yes they would need to be pinned into place for CA use.

norcal-ar
12-01-2009, 7:40 PM
if your on a budget do a gis piston conversion on your colt upper. if your in northern cal. irvington arms is a pws dealer/installer.

Nxd9ar15xcrL
12-01-2009, 7:50 PM
And then there is the Robinson Arms XCR.......

TZL
12-01-2009, 7:57 PM
or fake can....

Yes they would need to be pinned into place for CA use.

cgsomoza
12-01-2009, 8:01 PM
For about $350 you can get a gas piston kit for the AR. Will run excellent and will reduce the cleaning of your bolt...You just have to clean the piston assembly instead.

sd1023x
12-01-2009, 8:09 PM
If its cleaning the bolt locking area is making you pull your hair out (I feel your pain), think really the sig 556 is the only way to go.

Scar bolt face compared to AR (nothing really new here, that looks suspiciously like an AR-18 bolt with the recoil mechanism facing the wrong way...funny how the ACR/SCAR/G-36 draws its lineage from the ar-18)
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture-21-5.png
Thanks firearmsblog

Sig 556 bolt face
http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/2sp/550_bolt_and_carrier.jpg
Thanks biggerhammer

dchang0
12-01-2009, 8:49 PM
Cleaning a gas piston gun is only slightly better than direct impingement. Sure, there are fewer parts/areas to clean, but I find that getting the carbon fouling off of the piston and cylinder is much harder because it gets "caked on" in higher concentrations. Where a toothbrush and "gun scrubber" spray is often enough to clean my AR, I usually have to use some sort of scraper to clean the piston in my FS2000.

sd1023x
12-01-2009, 9:09 PM
Cleaning a gas piston gun is only slightly better than direct impingement. Sure, there are fewer parts/areas to clean, but I find that getting the carbon fouling off of the piston and cylinder is much harder because it gets "caked on" in higher concentrations. Where a toothbrush and "gun scrubber" spray is often enough to clean my AR, I usually have to use some sort of scraper to clean the piston in my FS2000.

Thats because you have a "tappet" system. And literally the piston for the AR is in the bolt.

biko
12-01-2009, 9:15 PM
I have a SIG and I think it is way over rated. The ergonomics are no improvement over an AR, and in some ways, worse.

I have fired a SCAR and I really like it. It is well thought out. It is much lighter than it looks. I like the XCR as well, but it does not feel as polished as the SCAR. If I could get a SCAR in CA, that would be what I standardize on.

sd1023x
12-01-2009, 9:53 PM
The ergonomics are no improvement over an AR, and in some ways, worse.

Well....its not an AR. Its a sig 550 type altered to take STANAG or AR magazines.

TZL
12-02-2009, 2:41 PM
The Sig isn't supposed to be an improved AR...its a totally different platform, just so happens the Sig556 is similar in appearance to an AR15...however in reality, the Sig556 is more like an accurized and improved AK...just happens to take AR mags...and in the US versions, uses AR-style butt stocks

I have a SIG and I think it is way over rated. The ergonomics are no improvement over an AR, and in some ways, worse.

cyrus
12-02-2009, 3:18 PM
Where is the bet place to get a SCAR for CA?

biko
12-02-2009, 5:54 PM
The Sig isn't supposed to be an improved AR...its a totally different platform, just so happens the Sig556 is similar in appearance to an AR15...however in reality, the Sig556 is more like an accurized and improved AK...just happens to take AR mags...and in the US versions, uses AR-style butt stocks

I get that the Sig is not an AR... but it is a carbine. AR-15, SCAR, Sig 556 are very different from one another. The SCAR is designed to be ambi and change calibers, the Sig is none of that.

Wasn't the OP asking about preferences/pros/cons of one over the other? I was assuming the question was regarding carbines.

bondmid003
12-02-2009, 7:46 PM
Where is the bet place to get a SCAR for CA?

Cold War Shooters might have one.