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kapache
11-30-2009, 3:48 PM
I need help deciding on whether get a 6.8scp Upper for my AR or buy a 308 Rifle (Tikka3)

My interest are mainly for hunting Hog and Deer.

spareparts
11-30-2009, 4:20 PM
I personally gave up my 6.8SPC because ammo was expensive and there isn't much variety. I kind of liked the caliber but not enough to live with the limited selection of ammo.

.308 has withstood the test of time and ammo is manufactured in many flavors by many companies. It hits harder and has greater range.

I'd go .308 if it were my decision.

EOD3
11-30-2009, 4:27 PM
IMHO, shooting a decent size porker with a 6.8 is asking for trouble. Having a semi-auto rifle makes it a little safer but I'd still go with the 308.

rksimple
11-30-2009, 4:27 PM
For your intended application, 308...by a fair margin.

Super Spy
11-30-2009, 4:33 PM
Personally I want both.....have 2 308 lowers on the way. Have multiple AR-15 lowers already. The only thing slowing me down is $$$. The bolt action gun is going to be a 7mm Mag.

kapache
11-30-2009, 4:33 PM
Okay so the 308 will be my best bet for hunting.

kapache
11-30-2009, 4:37 PM
:willy_nilly::90: I can't decide I like both rounds. the 6.8 to me it's like a breed of 60% home defense and %40 hunting, depending on the type of ammo. the 308 100% hunting and 100% Home defense.

EOD3
11-30-2009, 4:41 PM
Personally I want both.....have 2 308 lowers on the way. Have multiple AR-15 lowers already. The only thing slowing me down is $$$. The bolt action gun is going to be a 7mm Mag.

7MM Magnum AKA: Twice the recoil for half the ballistics... :2:

Purple K
11-30-2009, 4:44 PM
I'd go with the 6.8spc for any game animal in Californis except bear. Pigs are not nearly as big or as mean as folks think. The advantage of a quick second shot with a semi-auto beats the bolt action easily.

rksimple
11-30-2009, 4:54 PM
The advantage of a quick second shot with a semi-auto beats the bolt action easily.

The advantage of not needing a second shot beats the semi 6.8 easily.

Jpach
11-30-2009, 5:49 PM
The advantage of not needing a second shot beats the semi 6.8 easily.

You should check out the 6.8 forums if you havent already. I used to hate the 6.8 but that was before I realized that the SPC II existed. It seems to be quite the hog round. With propper shot placement and the propper bullet, the hogs are DRT no less than other rounds.

But the .308 is still awesome.

OP, do you reload? I would say just get a 6.8 upper from AR15 performance, they have nice *** rifles for a good price.

http://www.ar15performance.com/

Purple K
11-30-2009, 6:11 PM
The advantage of not needing a second shot beats the semi 6.8 easily.

Most times you will not need a second shot with the 6.8spc. Having the bolt action in a larger caliber does not guarantee that you won't need a second shot. Shot placement is more important than caliber. I killed my first deer 35+ years ago with a .22Lr. If a pig does decide to charge you, do you want to be fumbling with a bolt-action?

aermotor
11-30-2009, 6:19 PM
Maybe go for the Tikka, I've got a Varmint in .308 Heavy Barrel and it's amazing, though you may want the lite for weight. I don't think there's any contest vs. the 6.8 honestly. If you want to hunt and stay in the AR platform, perhaps get a 6.5 instead, not really sure.

jaymz
11-30-2009, 6:20 PM
My bolt action .308 spends the vast majority of the hunting season in the safe. My 6.8 AR is fully capable of DRT on 99% of the game you will find in CA. It's a helluva lot easier to carry all day as well.

aermotor
11-30-2009, 6:25 PM
Yea AR platform seems a lot easier for sure... the investment isn't much to get a 6.8 upper and you could probably more easily sell that than a Tikka. And you don't need to spend money on glass as well. 6.8 is a good bet I think, I nearly picked up a 6.8 today but opted for another 5.56 since I don't hunt much and wanted to keep my ammo consolidated. I'd say go for the 6.8 to try something new and exciting and I bet you'll love it.

rksimple
11-30-2009, 6:43 PM
Most times you will not need a second shot with the 6.8spc. Having the bolt action in a larger caliber does not guarantee that you won't need a second shot. Shot placement is more important than caliber. I killed my first deer 35+ years ago with a .22Lr. If a pig does decide to charge you, do you want to be fumbling with a bolt-action?

Fumbling with a bolt action? Get real.

I've been there, done that. Killed lots of stuff with all calibers. The problems are encountered with non-ideal shots (ie. broadside). Shooting through brush, quartering animals, longer distances, etc. will give the 6.8 problems. Its not that the 6.8 won't do OK under most conditions with California game, its just that the 308 bolt will be better under most all circumstances as a hunting rifle.

kapache
11-30-2009, 6:46 PM
Thanks guys for the tips, Ill give a 6.8 a try altho a 6.5 Grendel sounds good but Ill live that for another Post. You are correct selling a AR is quicker than a Tikka rifle.

StraightArch
11-30-2009, 6:57 PM
Shot placement is more important than caliber. I killed my first deer 35+ years ago with a .22Lr.

Jeez where did that magic bullet land?

nn3453
11-30-2009, 7:11 PM
Its not that the 6.8 won't do OK under most conditions with California game, its just that the 308 bolt will be better under most all circumstances as a hunting rifle.

Also with the 308 the OP will get to practice more as ammo/components are more readily available. Every gun store has at least some ammo or components in 308. Also the 308 is a lot more versatile if you care about picking and choosing bullet weights. With a 6.8, you are stuck with a 110-115gr.

Purple K
11-30-2009, 7:12 PM
Jeez where did that magic bullet land?

Let's just say I broke Bambi's little heart.

kapache
11-30-2009, 7:33 PM
Doing a more detail re-search, the 308 ammo is more freely available and more GR options. The 6.8 prices range from 17 and up whereas the 308 7buck per 20 round.

blackrifle242
11-30-2009, 7:39 PM
Doing a more detail re-search, the 308 ammo is more freely available and more GR options. The 6.8 prices range from 17 and up whereas the 308 7buck per 20 round.

Please tell me where you get 20 Rds. of .308 for $7.00. My choice would be a combo of .308 and semi auto......M1A

aermotor
11-30-2009, 8:18 PM
Where are you finding .308 for $7/20?

5ohguy
11-30-2009, 8:40 PM
Why not a semi auto .308? My M1A scout is very accurate with irons to roughly 400 yards and allows very quick 2nd shots with the compensator.

pyro3k2
11-30-2009, 8:48 PM
maybe Im just being a fan boy again but the .450 bushmaster will do everything you are asking for HD and hunting hogs. the ammo cost is almost the same and hornady makes ammo for it so you know its going to be great straight shooting factory ammo. The .450 will down a hog or a obese terrorist/robber in one shot and you have 4 follow up shots, 9 if you modify a 30 round mag. Ammo is easier to find than the .458/.50 BW and cheaper.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm349/DrCuddlez_86/Ammo.jpg

Jpach
11-30-2009, 8:54 PM
Also with the 308 the OP will get to practice more as ammo/components are more readily available. Every gun store has at least some ammo or components in 308. Also the 308 is a lot more versatile if you care about picking and choosing bullet weights. With a 6.8, you are stuck with a 110-115gr.

Actually, you are stuck with 80-115gr bullets. I dont know too many guys that hunt from 500 yards on out with a .308. For hunting and fun purposes, the 6.8 SPC is great. The velocities achieved by the ammo made for SPC II guns are just rediculous. Im talking 80gr bullets flying at like ~~3400 fps out of an 18" barrel. With no negative effects on the gun after 4000+rds too.

John Z
11-30-2009, 9:12 PM
Please tell me where you get 20 Rds. of .308 for $7.00. My choice would be a combo of .308 and semi auto......M1A

Not quite there, but close:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM692-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?pagesize=150&catid=550&pagenumber=1

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.308

I was at the Costa Mesa show last weekend and I believe the prices were near there. Don't quote me though as I was looking for 7.62X39 not X51, and wasn't paying that close attention.

Bug Splat
11-30-2009, 9:33 PM
I've never really been impressed with the 6.8. The bullets have a BC right in line with a VW bus. I like range with my round and the 6.8 drops like a rock. Between your two options I'd go with a 308.

For a close range (sub 150 yards) hog gun in an AR platform I'd go with a 50 beowulf. For everything else, 6.5 Grendel. Even the 6.5 gives the 308 a run for its money.

sholling
11-30-2009, 9:55 PM
Honestly either will do the job. The trade-off is between range, power, weight, length of the rifle, and speed of follow up shots. BTW I prefer the T3 Lite in 30-06 over 308 simply because they share the same long action so you may as well take advantage of the longer cartridge.

My Tikka T3 Lite in 30-06 is 6.2lbs (7lbs scoped), vs who knows - it all depends on how you configure your AR. Figure 7-8lbs scoped. However recoil comes into play. That lightweight Tikka needs the help of a Limbsaver recoil pad, while the 6.8 just gives a gentle push.

The Tikka in 30-06 or 308 is 42" long vs 34" for a 16" barreled AR15. Advantage in thick brush 6.8.

Hitting power - the 6.8x42 is gaining a lot of popularity as a deer and hog hunting cartridge. However the 308 and 30-06 are well proven stoppers and have longer legs.

Follow up shots are no contest - Advantage AR15. However the bolt on that Tikka is so slick that it's might fast.

The final answer is buy both. :D

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/My%20Tots%201024/IMG_0287a.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/My%20Tots%201024/IMG_0242a.jpg

kapache
12-01-2009, 6:27 AM
LOL yeah I was talking to my wife she actually told me the same thing buy both the upper and the Tikka, before tax season comes.

jaymz
12-01-2009, 6:45 AM
I've never really been impressed with the 6.8. The bullets have a BC right in line with a VW bus.
A VW bus? Reallllly? :confused:

I like range with my round and the 6.8 drops like a rock. Between your two options I'd go with a 308.


300 yards + or - is plenty of range for deer hunting, especially in CA.

sholling
12-01-2009, 7:59 AM
LOL yeah I was talking to my wife she actually told me the same thing buy both the upper and the Tikka, before tax season comes.
Hey if your wife says buy both then who are you to say no? ;) But do consider 30-06 instead of 308. All Tikkas are long action anyway.

kapache
12-01-2009, 9:51 AM
I am reading on the 6.8spc and so far I see that the 6.5 grendel has more popularity from the two rounds. Decisions decisions!!! what to choose first is the question.

Bug Splat
12-01-2009, 9:57 AM
A VW bus? Reallllly? :confused:



300 yards + or - is plenty of range for deer hunting, especially in CA.


It all comes down to personal opinion. I know guys who have zero trouble dropping deer or a hog with a 22 and one guy even uses a knife to hunt (yes, he is crazy but he still brings home the meat). I like long range flat shooting bullets. 300 yards to me is too short. I've shot small rabbits beyond 400 yards. If my skills allow me to shoot at greater distances why would I limit myself to 300 yards? If I can be effective out past 600-700-1000 yards why not match myself with a round that could do that.

Its better to have and not need then to need and not have :D

Jpach
12-01-2009, 12:25 PM
It all comes down to personal opinion. I know guys who have zero trouble dropping deer or a hog with a 22 and one guy even uses a knife to hunt (yes, he is crazy but he still brings home the meat). I like long range flat shooting bullets. 300 yards to me is too short. I've shot small rabbits beyond 400 yards. If my skills allow me to shoot at greater distances why would I limit myself to 300 yards? If I can be effective out past 600-700-1000 yards why not match myself with a round that could do that.

Its better to have and not need then to need and not have :D

Ha well you have more than 1 gun right? They why not have a lightweight gun that you can carry around all day for hunting (6.8), and one or more dedicated long range rifle for testing your abilities?

What caliber have you shot small rabbits with at 400 + yards (thats ****ing awesome btw)? Is it suited for dear/pigs/etc at that range? Is it suited for big game at all?

Sure its cool to test limits of weapons and test your own skills, but making a quick and humane kill is what us hunters aim for. Shooting at a deer at 700 yards is just silly due to the high probability of not hitting the vitals.

This is why I think 6.8 is a good choice for the OP; its great on game out to 300 or so yards or more depending on what bullet is used. To me, thats a fine distance and I likely wouldnt shoot at animals at ranges farther than that unless they are varmints. Thats just me though.

Jpach
12-01-2009, 12:28 PM
I am reading on the 6.8spc and so far I see that the 6.5 grendel has more popularity from the two rounds. Decisions decisions!!! what to choose first is the question.

I dont think that the grendel has more popularity. There are lots more 6.8 uppers out there than the 6.5 IIRC. So far I have never bumped into a person with a 6.5 Grendel besides on these forums. I know several that have 6.8s though.

The thing with the Grendel is that it needs longer barrels to achieve velocities similar to the 6.8 with shorter barrels. It DOES use higher BC bullets than the 6.8 but I dont think it would be too fun carrying around an upper with a 24" barrel around the woods for several hours at a time.

6.8 SPC is more practical than the Grendel for short distance work

Bug Splat
12-01-2009, 3:58 PM
Ha well you have more than 1 gun right? They why not have a lightweight gun that you can carry around all day for hunting (6.8), and one or more dedicated long range rifle for testing your abilities?

What caliber have you shot small rabbits with at 400 + yards (thats ****ing awesome btw)? Is it suited for dear/pigs/etc at that range? Is it suited for big game at all?

Sure its cool to test limits of weapons and test your own skills, but making a quick and humane kill is what us hunters aim for. Shooting at a deer at 700 yards is just silly due to the high probability of not hitting the vitals.

This is why I think 6.8 is a good choice for the OP; its great on game out to 300 or so yards or more depending on what bullet is used. To me, thats a fine distance and I likely wouldnt shoot at animals at ranges farther than that unless they are varmints. Thats just me though.

I was using a 223. No way would I attempt shooting anything larger with a 223 at the range.

I see what you mean about overkill in a round. I tend to fall into the "bigger is better" crowd. The 6.8 SPCII looks impressive. I was not aware of it until today.

Jpach
12-01-2009, 4:25 PM
I was using a 223. No way would I attempt shooting anything larger with a 223 at the range.

I see what you mean about overkill in a round. I tend to fall into the "bigger is better" crowd. The 6.8 SPCII looks impressive. I was not aware of it until today.

Doesnt it? I used to HATE the 6.8 and piss all over the threads asking why on earth people would use it over the 6.5 grendel. Its funny because none of the people that I would question/discuss/argue with would tell me that the 6.8 has been "updated" or that the velocities achieved in the 6.8 come from shorter barrels as opposed to the necessity of long barrels to achieve comparable velocity in the 6.5 grendel.

Once I found out, I had some serious 6.8 diameter wood. And Im not ashamed to admit it :D

BTW what bullets at what velocity from what gun did you shoot those rabbits with? I love shooting rabbits. So far the only one that Ive shot with .223 was from probably 30 yards away. I shot it with FMJ and the rabbit pretty much exploded. I have pics if you wana see ;)

jaymz
12-01-2009, 6:43 PM
Not that anyone asked, but .22-250 and jackrabbits (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2750175#post2750175) don't mix well..........or do they? :43:

sumdood
12-01-2009, 7:06 PM
Doesn't the 6.8 shoot a .270 Winchester type bullet? Lots of those in market if you reload.

jaymz
12-01-2009, 7:54 PM
Doesn't the 6.8 shoot a .270 Winchester type bullet? Lots of those in market if you reload.

Yes, but the way I understand it, once you get above about 115 grains, the bullet is too long to seat to the proper overall length within the case. If I understand wrong (which is entirely possible), someone will correct me shortly.

Jpach
12-01-2009, 8:05 PM
Not that anyone asked, but .22-250 and jackrabbits (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2750175#post2750175) don't mix well..........or do they? :43:

Haha dude, thats awesome. I gata show you the rabbit I shot. It didnt make the bunny...implode as urs did but it did make quite a blood painting...and intestine wrappage around the leg...and a giant blood clot several feet away from it....yea. It was awesome. All with .223 FMJ. Ill post pics on that thread later

Sick Boy
12-01-2009, 8:25 PM
600 lb. cow elk with 6.8. Good enough for my AR-platform build. Here I come AR15 Performance after tax returns!!

I love the 6.8 & I think the reason it really hasn't taken off as well as it might is simply because of the cost factor. Ammo is expensive but these days, the difference in price between quality 5.56 & 6.8 is not as big as it once was. Anyone priced new manufacture .308 lately? Yep, just about as expensive as 6.8, hell, even surplus .308 is over 50 cents a round....:eek:

I've shot the 6.8 in 3 gun comps & it really rocks the steel targets compared to 5.56.

It was also big enough to kill this elk in CO in 2007:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1136590/elk003.JPG

With this:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1136590/elk004.JPG


I really, really like the 6.8......:cool2:

Desert_AIP
12-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Yes, but the way I understand it, once you get above about 115 grains, the bullet is too long to seat to the proper overall length within the case. If I understand wrong (which is entirely possible), someone will correct me shortly.

Yes and no, depends entirely on the bullet shape.
There are several good 130 grain bullets that guys are running in suppressors.
Still lethal on deer even at the lower velocity. Even unsuppressed they are useful, very mild to shoot.

The 85-115 range is the sweet spot.

The Barnes 85 TSX is almost a universal bullet out of the 6.8, good on hogs and deer.
3100fps out of a proper spec 16" barrel. Through and through - DRT
All copper so no EPA concerns, really don't need anything else.
A great LEO barrier round too.

If you want to save a little cash and don't need all copper, the 110 pro hunters are great deer bullets.
But when you're hunting you're not doing mag dumps, so a few cents per round doesn't really make that big of a difference.

My 16" barrelled 6.8 setup weighs 8.5 pounds loaded (10 rounds) with the optic. It's a lot handier brush gun than a longer barreled rifle, and quite a bit lighter than my AR-10.

ETA:
My Reloading Bullet list
Barnes 85 TSX - hunting, barrier - very accurate
Speer 90 TNT - plinking, coyote, CQB - very accurate
Hornady 110 BTHP - good BC target, good "sniping" rounds - extremely accurate in my gun when loaded to 2.30"
Hornady 110 VMAX - coyote, CQB - accuracy is just OK, good enough but not MOA
Sierra 110 Pro Hunter - hunting, barrier - very accurate
Sierra 115 SMK BTHP - good BC target, the SMKII w/c are good "sniping" rounds

Have yet to try but have read good things about
Nosler 100 and 110 Accubonds

SSA is supposed to come out with a 90 gr OTM plinking round soon.
Delayed due to the move to WA.