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View Full Version : Rifle Support Hand Placement


aceventura
11-29-2009, 8:45 AM
Just started to notice that some people are shooting rifles with thier support hand as shown below. Anyone know what the advantage/disadvantage to this is? http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo213/aceventura_3081/4095837575_c09e14f292_o.png

SJgunguy24
11-29-2009, 8:48 AM
It's what Travis and Chris teach at the MagPul classes. Everybody sys it works great, just like when your shooting handguns, support hand extened.
I've never been through a Mag Pul class.

virulosity
11-29-2009, 9:01 AM
It looks like it would be great for controlling the muzzle climb that the AR-15 doesn't have?

pacrimguru
11-29-2009, 9:23 AM
aside from keeping your hands in roughly the same position as pistol shooting to promote muscle memory uniformity, having your reaction hand as much towards the front as possible gives you much more directional control. if a target pops up towards either side of you, your reaction hand can actually drive the rifle towards those targets and stop on those targets without over shooting them. if you position your reactive hand towards the rear of the forearm or do a broomstick grab on the foregrip, you can easily overshoot the target. it is promoted as a quicker and more accurate grip.

try it, it works well.

series8217
11-29-2009, 10:00 AM
That hold gives more control over the weapon when changing targets, and it's more accurate/stable too.. the same amount of hand motion results in less muzzle movement when you're holding the rifle at the end, as opposed to holding it closer to your firing hand.

That's one reason the 3-gun guys like to use rifle-length (or longer) free-float handguards even on short-barreled rifles.

Ravenslair
11-29-2009, 10:02 AM
It facilitates more control in my experience. Try various techniques to find which works best for your particular (body) build and style of shooting.

esskay
11-29-2009, 10:09 AM
It looks like it would be great for controlling the muzzle climb that the AR-15 doesn't have?

If you're running your gun hard and fast it matters. If you compete (e.g. 3-gun) it matters.

Try this drill with different shooting techniques, and it will highlight it for you:
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BTW, a disadvantage, it will tire you out quicker! So one may need to strengthen up a bit! ;)

esskay
11-29-2009, 10:11 AM
That hold gives more control over the weapon when changing targets, and it's more accurate/stable too.. the same amount of hand motion results in less muzzle movement when you're holding it at the end.

That's one reason the 3-gun guys like to use rifle-length (or longer) free-float handguards even on short-barreled rifles.

Yep, another reason is to facilitate use of barricades/support, i.e. you attach to cover by placing the handguard on an object to steady yourself.

Another reason is if you sling up in unsupported shooting positions, some like the sling mounting point far forward for this.

k1dude
11-29-2009, 10:11 AM
I don't get it. Every modern technique tries to improve situational awareness. Using the technique shown, everything on his left side is now obscured by his left arm/shoulder. So he has effectively created a 270 degree blind spot. Whereas traditional technique with both eyes open allows a 180 degree field of view. Older is better in this case.

pacrimguru
11-29-2009, 10:15 AM
I don't get it. Every modern technique tries to improve situational awareness. Using the technique shown, everything on his left side is now obscured by his left arm/shoulder. So he has effectively created a 270 degree blind spot. Whereas traditional technique with both eyes open allows a 180 degree field of view. Older is better in this case.

absolutely not, magpul training stresses visual search and assess procedures. don't look too hard to pick apart a great technique by just looking at one static picture.

DREADNOUGHT78
11-29-2009, 10:49 AM
I just hope that they do not push this technique for room clearing. Entering a room like that is a big disadvantage and would change your center of gravity an weaken your weapon retention if you were to become involved in a very close CQC scuffle.Coming through a door like that would make you easy to pull down and be disarmed. (My friend a USMC Security Forces CQB operater showed me first hand how easy you could have your *** handed to you).But I have not been to a Magpul class so I am not sure if they use this for entering buildings.

If you watch th Frt. Benning 3 gun competitions it is a very proven shooting stance looks funny but works.

Vinz
11-29-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't get it. Every modern technique tries to improve situational awareness. Using the technique shown, everything on his left side is now obscured by his left arm/shoulder. So he has effectively created a 270 degree blind spot. Whereas traditional technique with both eyes open allows a 180 degree field of view. Older is better in this case.

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The head pops up and does a search and sweep.

This style offers much more support since it is using your shoulder and triceps instead of your biceps and inner forearm.

Its a technique and everyone has a preference.

vinz

esskay
11-29-2009, 11:06 AM
I just hope that they do not push this technique for room clearing. Entering a room like that is a big disadvantage and would change your center of gravity an weaken your weapon retention if you were to become involved in a very close CQC scuffle.Coming through a door like that would make you easy to pull down and be disarmed. (My friend a USMC Security Forces CQB operater showed me first hand how easy you could have your *** handed to you).But I have not been to a Magpul class so I am not sure if they use this for entering buildings.

If you watch th Frt. Benning 3 gun competitions it is a very proven shooting stance looks funny but works.

Many top tier trainers are teaching this sort of support hand placement these days. But it's not religion! Here are some recent comments from Pat Rogers on this technique:

Some of the carbines had extended rails. While this supports a specific shooting style they are heavy and can be a PITA during extended building searches.

One technique does not necessarily equal succes, and no matter your hand placement trigger control, proper sighting and weapons manipulation are also required.
No matter what you use, consider how it will effect overall performance.

aceventura
11-29-2009, 2:16 PM
Great responses! Next time I shoot a rifle I will try this out.