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View Full Version : Hornady .223 Training ammo with steel varnished cases


Mr.CRC
11-27-2009, 10:14 PM
Hi:

I bought some of this in 75 gr, but now am wondering if it might not be the best thing for an AR-15.

Any experience with this Hornady training ammo?

Someone over here stated that "They recommended changing extractors after 1,000 rounds":

http://www.usaaug.com/showthread.php?t=583

Hmm. Maybe I should get Federal XM193 instead.

NSR500
11-28-2009, 12:31 AM
I've been shooting it out of my LWRC and it is just fine. Shoots a bit like Wolf, but with a more accurate projectile.

aplinker
11-28-2009, 1:45 AM
it's very good ammo. I wouldn't use it to replace brass, but for anything else - just shoot and enjoy.

B Strong
11-28-2009, 7:12 AM
Hi:

I bought some of this in 75 gr, but now am wondering if it might not be the best thing for an AR-15.

Any experience with this Hornady training ammo?

Someone over here stated that "They recommended changing extractors after 1,000 rounds":
http://www.usaaug.com/showthread.php?t=583

Hmm. Maybe I should get Federal XM193 instead.

I've run well over 1K rounds of this through my Noveseke w/o a problem or visble wear or damage to the extractor - if you get a good price, stack 'em deep and shoot to you hearts content.

Very accurate round through the 1-8 tube on my Mk12 clone too.

Mr.CRC
11-28-2009, 8:46 AM
I've been shooting it out of my LWRC and it is just fine. Shoots a bit like Wolf, but with a more accurate projectile.

Thanks for the response.

What does "Shoots a bit like Wolf" mean?

I guess my main concerns are (which I should have enumerated in my OP):

1. does it burn clean (no "goo")?
2. does it cause varnish to get baked into the chamber?
3. does it wear out anything at an abnormal rate?

I guess a final, though lesser concern might be, does it smell like good quality powder, or something fishy?

Mr.CRC
11-28-2009, 8:51 AM
I've run well over 1K rounds of this through my Noveseke w/o a problem or visble wear or damage to the extractor - if you get a good price, stack 'em deep and shoot to you hearts content.

Very accurate round through the 1-8 tube on my Mk12 clone too.

Thanks for the encouraging response.

Are your cases the varnished type, or the zinc plated type?

I have the varnished, which is one of the things which concerned me a bit. I don't want to get it baked in the chamber.

Although, I suppose that with a slow firing restriction at the local range, things might never have a chance to heat up to excess. It may be a different situation if one is dumping mags of the stuff in rapid fire.

tomd1584
11-28-2009, 12:50 PM
I've only shot about 100 rounds or so of the 75 gr., but I have shot about a case and a half of the 55 grain Hornady Tap practice.

I've had no problems, in fact i actually like it alot. I dont have to worry about looking for brass when I'm at the range.

-Tom

Sinestr
11-28-2009, 1:24 PM
I've also had good results with it. For my particular rifle it out groups xm193, and with a cheaper price tag.

NSR500
11-28-2009, 1:29 PM
When I said it shoots like Wolf, I don't mean anything negative like a stiky chamber. It does seem a bit dirty, and it has a smell of it's own. Otherwise it is good stuff.

hybridatsun350
11-28-2009, 1:41 PM
I love how people constantly talk down on Wolf, but speak very highly of American made steel-cased ammunition... :rolleyes:

If you're going to shoot steel-cased ammo just shoot Wolf. Otherwise, go for some good brass-cased stuff.

tomd1584
11-28-2009, 2:16 PM
I love how people constantly talk down on Wolf, but speak very highly of American made steel-cased ammunition... :rolleyes:

If you're going to shoot steel-cased ammo just shoot Wolf. Otherwise, go for some good brass-cased stuff.

except some of the wolf stuff has a bi-metal bullet. Hornady doesnt. for us in SoCal, this is kinda important.

hybridatsun350
11-28-2009, 2:39 PM
except some of the wolf stuff has a bi-metal bullet. Hornady doesnt. for us in SoCal, this is kinda important.

Good point. That's not an issue up here so I hadn't thought about it.

Shenaniguns
11-28-2009, 7:37 PM
Shoots much more consistently and cleaner than Wolf, I will continue to use it in my Noveske.

AndrewMendez
11-28-2009, 7:42 PM
Some Uppers request you not shoot steel casings, and stick with brass. I am assuming they know more then I do!! Even if it is Hornady, its still steel!

Shenaniguns
11-28-2009, 7:48 PM
Some Uppers request you not shoot steel casings, and stick with brass. I am assuming they know more then I do!! Even if it is Hornady, its still steel!


True, I'd only use steel cased ammo with chrome lined 5.56 type chambers

aplinker
11-28-2009, 10:10 PM
True, I'd only use steel cased ammo with chrome lined 5.56 type chambers

shrug...

if it works, go with it. It's not like he's using it in battle.

That being said, the likelihood of the fouling "sticking" issues are higher with a non-CL chamber. Just bring a clearing rod or shell extractor.

AndrewMendez
11-28-2009, 10:22 PM
shrug...

if it works, go with it. It's not like he's using it in battle.

That being said, the likelihood of the fouling "sticking" issues are higher with a non-CL chamber. Just bring a clearing rod or shell extractor.

And when SHTF??

aplinker
11-28-2009, 10:44 PM
And when SHTF??

don't use it?

He should know from his range time whether it's an issue, right?

All ammo/rifles/mags should be well vetted prior to being stockpiled for SHTF.

yock
11-28-2009, 10:53 PM
don't use it?

He should know from his range time whether it's an issue, right?

All ammo/rifles/mags should be well vetted prior to being stockpiled for SHTF.

Very true so go shoot the crap out of it and see how it does. :)

Mr.CRC
11-29-2009, 7:53 PM
don't use it?

He should know from his range time whether it's an issue, right?

All ammo/rifles/mags should be well vetted prior to being stockpiled for SHTF.

In the undesirable and hopefully extremely unlikely event of having to deploy the M4 as a defensive weapon for SHTF, I would plan to use only the best ammo. The Hornady TAP ammo that is used by LEOs seems like the right sort of thing, as does traditional US made M193.

There are cases of Federal XM193 at the local shop that I suppose would be suitable. I probably should have bought a case of that first, or just a single 50 rd box of each type before buying a whole case. So I will go back for the M193 later. The reason I didn't get it first was that I figured the 75 gr stuff would be better for target shooting accuracy since I was a little worried about the fast twist.

I have since learned that 1:7" is still Ok for quality 55 gr ammo, for combat purposes. It will be interesting to learn if there is a noticeable accuracy difference, though that would be unlikely to apply in a SHTF situation, because unless things got really weird (outright civil war?) I don't expect ever having to fire at another human being unless they have clearly crossed the boundaries of my property with identifiable hostile intent. Even in the civil war type scenario, I'd hope to simply succeed at splitting before it got to the point where I had to choose sides. As much planning for safely bugging out should be made as for preparing to physically defend myself, IMO.

I will take my time feeling out the operation of the gun with various ammo before considering putting it into a state of defensive readiness. Until then, a simple 12 ga shotgun is available...

aplinker
11-29-2009, 8:41 PM
Number of threads/posts on SHTF and EOTW on forums across the US:
117,257,913

Number of rounds fired in SHTF or EOTW across the US:
0

Preparation is good, but no need to become obsessed. :D

In the undesirable and hopefully extremely unlikely event of having to deploy the M4 as a defensive weapon for SHTF, I would plan to use only the best ammo. The Hornady TAP ammo that is used by LEOs seems like the right sort of thing, as does traditional US made M193.

There are cases of Federal XM193 at the local shop that I suppose would be suitable. I probably should have bought a case of that first, or just a single 50 rd box of each type before buying a whole case. So I will go back for the M193 later. The reason I didn't get it first was that I figured the 75 gr stuff would be better for target shooting accuracy since I was a little worried about the fast twist.

I have since learned that 1:7" is still Ok for quality 55 gr ammo, for combat purposes. It will be interesting to learn if there is a noticeable accuracy difference, though that would be unlikely to apply in a SHTF situation, because unless things got really weird (outright civil war?) I don't expect ever having to fire at another human being unless they have clearly crossed the boundaries of my property with identifiable hostile intent. Even in the civil war type scenario, I'd hope to simply succeed at splitting before it got to the point where I had to choose sides. As much planning for safely bugging out should be made as for preparing to physically defend myself, IMO.

I will take my time feeling out the operation of the gun with various ammo before considering putting it into a state of defensive readiness. Until then, a simple 12 ga shotgun is available...

Mr.CRC
11-30-2009, 7:46 PM
Number of threads/posts on SHTF and EOTW on forums across the US:
117,257,913

Number of rounds fired in SHTF or EOTW across the US:
0

Preparation is good, but no need to become obsessed. :D

Well stated. I agree that SHTF is overblown.

Individual incidents of crime are more of a reality. For that the first line of defense should be a good security system, and preferably multiple layers of technological, and (and perhaps domestic animal) security. A well designed security system can reduce the likelihood of needing to deploy a firearm by a large factor. I personally feel that I am morally obliged to attempt to avoid a violent outcome to a criminal encounter if at all possible.

randy
12-01-2009, 1:01 AM
Are you guys finding this ammo for under $400.00 per 1000? If so where?

aermotor
12-01-2009, 2:22 AM
Where are you finding it at all?

gunrun45
12-01-2009, 3:02 AM
I ran quite a bit of this ammo through a variety of platforms in its nickled cased 62 grn variety for a major vendor to T&E it about 4 years ago. I was absolutely impressed with it. I ran it through my old departments M4 as well as an AR pistol, several standard AR-15's, mini 14's and a lowly ACG. I had zero issues coupled with good accuracy.

72 grain in a 1in 7 twist might be a little heavy though.

Shenaniguns
12-01-2009, 7:52 AM
This weekend I found that the 75gr Training TAP groups as well as 69gr PRVI 'Match'. The 75gr TAP also works very nicely on steel turkey silhouettes to 385 Meters, the 500M rams are a challenge with 15mph gusts and need a perfect hit to drop them.

Shenaniguns
12-01-2009, 7:54 AM
I ran quite a bit of this ammo through a variety of platforms in its nickled cased 62 grn variety for a major vendor to T&E it about 4 years ago. I was absolutely impressed with it. I ran it through my old departments M4 as well as an AR pistol, several standard AR-15's, mini 14's and a lowly ACG. I had zero issues coupled with good accuracy.

72 grain in a 1in 7 twist might be a little heavy though.


1/7 twist loves heavier 70ish grain ammo...

J_Rock
12-01-2009, 9:19 AM
Well stated. I agree that SHTF is overblown.


Overblown? More like a mastabratory excuse to spend s*** tons of money on guns and ammo. :cool2: