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View Full Version : Crazy idea; Gay Marriage bill...


artherd
10-31-2005, 4:21 PM
...with a rider repealing SB23?

Discuss?

C.G.
10-31-2005, 4:26 PM
...with a rider repealing SB23?

Discuss?

Now you're onto something here! :)

PanzerAce
10-31-2005, 4:28 PM
links?

damn message length requirements....

Charliegone
10-31-2005, 6:12 PM
Hmm that sounds interesting, but whats to keep the dems from putting another aw law? How about repealing sb23 and making it law for them not to pass anymore aw laws? Since I'm a libertarian/centrist I wouldn't have a problem with gay marriage stuff. Just me.:o

blacklisted
10-31-2005, 6:26 PM
Hmm that sounds interesting, but whats to keep the dems from putting another aw law? How about repealing sb23 and making it law for them not to pass anymore aw laws? Since I'm a libertarian/centrist I wouldn't have a problem with gay marriage stuff. Just me.:o

I agree with this statement.

Rascal
10-31-2005, 7:36 PM
I just don't think that the lib's would go for this. Now the gay community, with the help of the pink pistols might be very much in favor of such a bill, I just don't think, and history has proven me right, that the powers to be don't care all that much about what the "people" think.

We do this for your own good, because we know what's good for you, and you don't. Insert any liberal Democrate signature here.

PanzerAce
10-31-2005, 7:46 PM
Hmm that sounds interesting, but whats to keep the dems from putting another aw law? How about repealing sb23 and making it law for them not to pass anymore aw laws? Since I'm a libertarian/centrist I wouldn't have a problem with gay marriage stuff. Just me.:o

same here. I really dont care what other people do as long as the govt gets its greedy paws off my gun rights :mad:

Turbinator
10-31-2005, 7:50 PM
same here. I really dont care what other people do as long as the govt gets its greedy paws off my gun rights :mad:

Fully agreed. Gay marriage? Hey, go for it, if you're happy that way. Leave MY rights alone, thank you.

Turby

artherd
10-31-2005, 10:08 PM
My thinking is simply as follows:

The hype and popular momentum behind the gay marriage issue will create a fury around this bill that none of the representives can ignore. Vote against a statewide gay marriage innitiative, and might as well pack up and go home now.

We simply sneak in the text to repeal SB23 as a last-minuite alteration. Some press will get out, but almost none and no voters will even equate the two in time.

Sneaky? Yes. Also how we got shafted out of transferable machineguns in 1986 along with the good protections in the "Firearm Owners Protection Act"? Also yes...

It's so stupid it might just work.

I don't have much expierence on the legislative side of things, how can we *effectively* get this thing going AND see it through to the end? Think I'll give Jim March a call.

PS: Personally I'm for both gay marriage and repealing SB23, the more civil rights we protect the better.

I just don't think that the lib's would go for this. Now the gay community, with the help of the pink pistols might be very much in favor of such a bill, I just don't think, and history has proven me right, that the powers to be don't care all that much about what the "people" think.

We do this for your own good, because we know what's good for you, and you don't. Insert any liberal Democrate signature here.

mblat
11-01-2005, 6:27 AM
Now the gay community, with the help of the pink pistols might be very much in favor of such a bill...
Insert any liberal Democrate signature here.

That may not be true. Gay community is very very anti gun.....

blacklisted
11-01-2005, 7:13 AM
That may not be true. Gay community is very very anti gun.....
I personally believe that on an individual level gays are as anti-gun as the average woman. Most women are anti-gun on some level, and it usually takes a male to show them otherwise. I'm not being sexist here, that's just how it is. After introduction they (women) have the same change to enjoy the shooting sports as men. I'm not volunteering to introduce gays to shooting, however. :). I believe that this is a feminine trait, and research has shown that homosexual's thought patterns are more similar to those of women.

In my opinion, the key to convincing people that your cause is good is to get to those who are open-minded, because you will never convince the close-minded ones. I have convinced a few antis that were open minded. I managed to convince them that it's a hobby, and like it or not it's protected in the bill of rights. Even if they don't like the hobby themself, they should accept it. And they did. One of my examples was pointing out some hobbies they had that seemed strange to me (and many other people) and said "maybe that should be banned, because I can't understand why you do it."

shecky
11-02-2005, 2:54 PM
Sounds like a great idea. More freedom for everyone!

However, it would be a looooong shot. Why? Conservatives overwhelmingly oppose gay marriage. Tack on the aw ban repeal, there goes most of the support it had in the first place. I don't think zealots on either side would cross lines to save their baby.

Still, I suppose it'd be worth a try. What's to lose?

but whats to keep the dems from putting another aw law?

The effort to do it again. Then again, with someone like Arnold in office (not convinced he would veto a new ban), it might not be such a uphill battle. :(

Turbinator
11-02-2005, 8:21 PM
That may not be true. Gay community is very very anti gun.....

Possibly, but what's that Pink Pistol's catch phrase? Something about "armed gays don't get bashed"? Kinda has a good ring to it..

Turby

maxicon
11-05-2005, 4:22 PM
I know quite a few gay folks who are shooters, and even a few gun nuts, and I don't think gayness has anything to do with pro/anti. It's more that the hard left is anti-gun, and the self-sufficient libertarian type is pro gun, just like any demographic sample. There are probably fewer hard right gays, so that may skew the numbers a bit.

As far as gay men thinking like women, that's definitely not the case, in my experience. Of the gays I know, they're just like anyone else - some are macho, some aren't, some are idiots, some are smart, some are good people, some are jerks, and so on.

max

blacklisted
11-05-2005, 4:39 PM
I know quite a few gay folks who are shooters, and even a few gun nuts, and I don't think gayness has anything to do with pro/anti. It's more that the hard left is anti-gun, and the self-sufficient libertarian type is pro gun, just like any demographic sample. There are probably fewer hard right gays, so that may skew the numbers a bit.

As far as gay men thinking like women, that's definitely not the case, in my experience. Of the gays I know, they're just like anyone else - some are macho, some aren't, some are idiots, some are smart, some are good people, some are jerks, and so on.

max

I would agree too, from my experience, I'm just referring to the feminine gays.

CaliTheKid
11-06-2005, 10:16 AM
I would agree too, from my experience, I'm just referring to the feminine gays.

Actually studies have found a gay male psychology to be unto itself and very dissimilar to either straight male or female as it's been primarily shaped by negative experiences during the formative adolescent years and a lack of ritual that brings them into adulthood. Gay adult males share a psychology more like a teenage boy who has not "grown up". The psychological component is one that still behaves, thinks, and reacts to his world like a child. It's an arrested development in a society where they have been isolated and thus are never initiated into the hierarchy of manhood. I mean-- if you want to get deeply psychological about all this if anything the gay male should be VERY attracted to guns as male adolecents have a total lack of power thing going on and guns are an ultimate symbol of power and control not to mention of phallyic symbolism of it lol...::Ok...college psych 160 off lol::

On a separate note, I think if pro-gun agendas were not so deeply steeped in a conservative veneer (which have traditionally been very bad to the gay agendas) more gay's would gravitate towards them. I also think if they thought they would have a chance to pass gay marriage-- they'd gladly put up with a pro-gun addendum. Conversely, I think the pro-gun set would have a harder time seeing past the gay marriage thing. Maybe since it's a Cali only issue it might work since we are just as oppresssed as the gays lol. I really don't know though. Need to look at some public opinion data on the issue since religion usually plays into anti-gay marriage opinions.

Personally...I'd vote for a gay marriage bill if it would bring us back some gun rights. But then again I am a really moderate republican. Who here considers themselves a more moderate/liberal gun owner when compared to the rest of the country?

blacklisted
11-06-2005, 10:42 AM
Actually studies have found a gay male psychology to be unto itself and very dissimilar to either straight male or female as it's been primarily shaped by negative experiences during the formative adolescent years and a lack of ritual that brings them into adulthood. Gay adult males share a psychology more like a teenage boy who has not "grown up". The psychological component is one that still behaves, thinks, and reacts to his world like a child. It's an arrested development in a society where they have been isolated and thus are never initiated into the hierarchy of manhood. I mean-- if you want to get deeply psychological about all this if anything the gay male should be VERY attracted to guns as male adolecents have a total lack of power thing going on and guns are an ultimate symbol of power and control not to mention of phallyic symbolism of it lol...::Ok...college psych 160 off lol::

On a separate note, I think if pro-gun agendas were not so deeply steeped in a conservative veneer (which have traditionally been very bad to the gay agendas) more gay's would gravitate towards them. I also think if they thought they would have a chance to pass gay marriage-- they'd gladly put up with a pro-gun addendum. Conversely, I think the pro-gun set would have a harder time seeing past the gay marriage thing. Maybe since it's a Cali only issue it might work since we are just as oppresssed as the gays lol. I really don't know though. Need to look at some public opinion data on the issue since religion usually plays into anti-gay marriage opinions.

Personally...I'd vote for a gay marriage bill if it would bring us back some gun rights. But then again I am a really moderate republican. Who here considers themselves a more moderate/liberal gun owner when compared to the rest of the country?

I'm only up to psych 101, and I can't say that I like it much. :)

I'm probably a lot more liberal than most gun owners, at least socially. I strongly believe in individual rights of all kinds, and could care less what someone does as long as it doesn't effect others who do not desire it. Gay marriage does not bother me, and I can't see why it would bother others. I suppose it could bother those who are very religious, but there is nothing that says that the marriage has to be in a church. In fact, most priests/ministers would probably not marry gays, and that is their right. Marriage today is mostly a civil thing anyway, and if two people love each other, marriage is a way of officially stating it (for certain benefits). This is just my opinion.

Placebo
11-08-2005, 6:05 PM
My thinking is simply as follows:

The hype and popular momentum behind the gay marriage issue will create a fury around this bill that none of the representives can ignore. Vote against a statewide gay marriage innitiative, and might as well pack up and go home now.

You realize that Schwarzenegger just vetoed such a bill (AB849 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_849&sess=CUR&house=B&author=leno)) last month, right? You also realize that when that bill was put to vote in the state legislature, there were more than a handful of dissenting ("no") votes from Democrat members? Same-sex marriage, like many other hot issues, fails the black and white, partisan litmus test.
...and nobody had to "pack up and go home" because of it.

On the issue itself, I'm of the opinion that one look no further than the broad protections guaranteed under the Ninth Amendment, but the current trend in the "gay" marriage debate is one that cites the Fourteenth's full faith and credit clause.

When you figure that the USSC has already ruled that a fundamental right to marriage exists (Loving vs. Virginia (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=388&invol=1)), the parallels to the "gun issue" become more clear. IMO.

jdberger
11-11-2005, 11:15 AM
I'm probably a lot more liberal than most gun owners, at least socially. I strongly believe in individual rights of all kinds, and could care less what someone does as long as it doesn't effect others who do not desire it. Gay marriage does not bother me, and I can't see why it would bother others. I suppose it could bother those who are very religious, but there is nothing that says that the marriage has to be in a church. In fact, most priests/ministers would probably not marry gays, and that is their right. Marriage today is mostly a civil thing anyway, and if two people love each other, marriage is a way of officially stating it (for certain benefits). This is just my opinion.

Actually, you are in the majority on this thread and probably in this forum...

I think that the idea is a good one - anyone know a Pink Pistol so this could get started?

Attack from all angles, never let up...