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View Full Version : Open Carry story, video and discussion on SFGATE


Steyr_223
11-18-2009, 10:53 AM
This should have it;s own thread..


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=51902&o=2&gta=commentslistpos#commentslistpos

thempopresense
11-18-2009, 11:02 AM
It also links to the KTVU News story being discussed in the other thread.

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Reading the comments right now, some real brain donors on there...

Such as this muppet:
What a bunch of crazies. Innocent people are going to get killed in the crossfire and people will get killed over the slightest of slights.

Yeah. Caught in the crossfire from unloaded guns, kinda like the ever present danger of being run over by a parked car...in your garage...with the wheels removed..

Steyr_223
11-18-2009, 11:22 AM
Of course the open carry issue raises several concerns. Officers interviewed by KTVU point out that there's no telling if the gun is loaded and that a tense situation could turn violent.

You can watch the KTVU report here. For an overview of open carry regulations, check Opencarry.org. The SF-based Legal Community Against Violence has more on California gun laws.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=51902&tsp=1#ixzz0XFDhMETY

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 11:24 AM
There is one problem with this. Before I say anything, let me preface it with, this is just an observation and should in no way be meant to discourage exercising your 2A rights, however, if this does become public knowledge and UOC'ers are "profiled" by criminals who will learn from the media about UOC, this could be a serious problem for someone walking by their self. I understand that criminals are cowards, but so are wolves and they travel in packs. Just the same, criminals carrying concealed loaded guns and will probably not advertise that you are about to be attacked. For all of the UOCers, please be careful.

M1A Rifleman
11-18-2009, 11:27 AM
The anti's and the lib's are going ape #@$% over the issue.:D

There comments are fun reading. Makes me want to UOC just to spite em.

M1A Rifleman
11-18-2009, 11:29 AM
There is one problem with this. Before I say anything, let me preface it with, this is just an observation and should in no way be meant to discourage exercising your 2A rights, however, if this does become public knowledge and UOC'ers are "profiled" by criminals who will learn from the media about UOC, this could be a serious problem for someone walking by their self. I understand that criminals are cowards, but so are wolves and they travel in packs. Just the same, criminals carrying concealed loaded guns and will probably not advertise that you are about to be attacked. For all of the UOCers, please be careful.

You make an excellent point. This may be a problem waiting to happen. Be aware of your surroundings, and practice quick loading :D

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 11:31 AM
There is one problem with this. Before I say anything, let me preface it with, this is just an observation and should in no way be meant to discourage exercising your 2A rights, however, if this does become public knowledge and UOC'ers are "profiled" by criminals who will learn from the media about UOC, this could be a serious problem for someone walking by their self. I understand that criminals are cowards, but so are wolves and they travel in packs. Just the same, criminals carrying concealed loaded guns and will probably not advertise that you are about to be attacked. For all of the UOCers, please be careful.

We'll find out the first time a gang member tries to take a gun from a plain clothes cop on his coffee break at Starbucks ;) I see them all the time around VNY airport in various restaurants. One of em is a real hotty blonde babe :)

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 11:32 AM
We'll find out the first time a gang member tries to take a gun from a plain clothes cop on his coffee break at Starbucks ;) I see them all the time around VNY airport in various restaurants. One of em is a real hotty blonde babe :)

Do they open carry or CCW?

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Do they open carry or CCW?
Open mostly, but some have shoulder rigs. Not sure what Dept they are with, I assume they could even be ATF from the VNY office because they "dress like office workers" for want of a better term.

Edit:
Next time I see them I'll make a point of actually asking them.

wash
11-18-2009, 11:48 AM
UOC is much better when done in groups with some people unarmed.

That's not very easy prey for someone who wants to grab a gun.

Some day UOC or maybe even LOC will be hassle free and by that time I think most crooks will have learned to stay away from armed folks.

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 11:52 AM
ok, I had to stop reading the comments section at page 8 because I was in danger of losing what IQ I still have. Luckily some was restored when I read BudBandits post, but was lost again when I read the absolute drivel by the brain donor posting as "Heartmasq". He actually threatens to sue people who would prevent him being a "defenseless victim".

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Open mostly, but some have shoulder rigs. Not sure what Dept they are with, I assume they could even be ATF from the VNY office because they "dress like office workers" for want of a better term.

Edit:
Next time I see them I'll make a point of actually asking them.

Cool. But I'm thinking that a UOCer will look much different than a cop OCing. And most of the cops I know usually CCW to avoid being ID'd as cops. The problem is, they still look like cops even off duty so unless UOCers start looking and acting like cops (probably not a good idea), they will stick out like a sore thumb. All I can say is if you are normally at threat level orange without a gun, it might be a good idea to go to red just so that you are more aware of your surroundings. God forbid a UOCer get caught off guard and be killed and his or her gun taken by a criminal. I would hate for the anti's to get hold of that jewel so that they can wave it around and justify making a law that completely outlaws even UOC.

pullnshoot25
11-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Cool. But I'm thinking that a UOCer will look much different than a cop OCing. And most of the cops I know usually CCW to avoid being ID'd as cops. The problem is, they still look like cops even off duty so unless UOCers start looking and acting like cops (probably not a good idea), they will stick out like a sore thumb. All I can say is if you are normally at threat level orange without a gun, it might be a good idea to go to red just so that you are more aware of your surroundings. God forbid a UOCer get caught off guard and be killed and his or her gun taken by a criminal. I would hate for the anti's to get hold of that jewel so that they can wave it around and justify making a law that completely outlaws even UOC.

It isn't illegal to DRESS like a cop. It is illegal to IMPERSONATE a cop.

Besides, off-duty gear can be had by anyone. Hell, I have some off-duty-esque gear at my house.

Paul E
11-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Aside from the obvious "tell everyone its unloaded" FUD, I'd UOC constantly if I knew all cops would be as cordial as the one in the video.

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 12:11 PM
It isn't illegal to DRESS like a cop. It is illegal to IMPERSONATE a cop.

Besides, off-duty gear can be had by anyone. Hell, I have some off-duty-esque gear at my house.

I don't want to nit pick but there may be a very fine line there. Hopefully no one crosses it. Restoring our rights is very important and I would hate to see the socialists get any justifiable reasons from us because of what we did or failed to do. As I've said before, I don't UOC in my town because there is just no reason. Everyone is polite or keeps to themselves and so UOC would just invite unnecessary ridicule where none is needed. On the other hand, those of you who choose to live in Urbania, have a reason because of the amount of crime that you are near. Just please be careful, my rights are on the line as much as yours.

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 12:35 PM
And most of the cops I know usually CCW to avoid being ID'd as cops.

These people have badges on their belts.

oldrifle
11-18-2009, 12:52 PM
One more reason why concealed carry is so much better than open carry. Great point.

There is one problem with this. Before I say anything, let me preface it with, this is just an observation and should in no way be meant to discourage exercising your 2A rights, however, if this does become public knowledge and UOC'ers are "profiled" by criminals who will learn from the media about UOC, this could be a serious problem for someone walking by their self. I understand that criminals are cowards, but so are wolves and they travel in packs. Just the same, criminals carrying concealed loaded guns and will probably not advertise that you are about to be attacked. For all of the UOCers, please be careful.

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 12:53 PM
These people have badges on their belts.

Ok, well I doubt a criminal will go after them.

On the other hand, gun - badge = UOCer = target of opportunity.

Is the reward (gun) > the risk (getting shot or arrested)? To a criminal it just might be.

I'm not saying that everytime a UOCer walks out the door, a criminal with a loaded concealed gun is going to meet them and take it. But what I am saying is that the right circumstances could come together and the lone UOCer may be over their heads in trouble and I would hate to see that happen. From my point of view, UOCers are staring at the pointy end of a trident (cops who don't like citizens in public with guns, scared citizens who believe the propaganda of the anti's, and criminals who would gladly relieve you of your unloaded firearm if they get the opportunity). That is a very precarious position to be in, so it behooves every individual that chooses to UOC to go forth with more caution than the rest of us who do not. I'm not trying to change anyones mind, but when you do, be very careful.

Liberty1
11-18-2009, 1:12 PM
One more reason why concealed carry is so much better than open carry. Great point.

This is an unfounded fear not based in factual evidence. I agree it should your choice however.

Oh Gawd I've engaged in a OC/CC tactical debate which for the sake of unity we should avoid at all hazards until bear is legally hashed out. Then the gloves come off!!!!

SgtDinosaur
11-18-2009, 1:21 PM
Cool. But I'm thinking that a UOCer will look much different than a cop OCing. And most of the cops I know usually CCW to avoid being ID'd as cops. The problem is, they still look like cops even off duty so unless UOCers start looking and acting like cops (probably not a good idea), they will stick out like a sore thumb. All I can say is if you are normally at threat level orange without a gun, it might be a good idea to go to red just so that you are more aware of your surroundings. God forbid a UOCer get caught off guard and be killed and his or her gun taken by a criminal. I would hate for the anti's to get hold of that jewel so that they can wave it around and justify making a law that completely outlaws even UOC.

I have been told many times for many years I look like a cop, and I have never been a cop. I don't mind it.

IrishPirate
11-18-2009, 1:25 PM
I dont know about you guys, but I dont live in South Central. There has been gang activity here in little old Chico, someone even got shot point blank outside a bar after a fight, and another person got shot PB while eating at a pizza place, but they all had previous instances that precipitated the violence. I agree, this is a fine line to walk, but UOC is a right, and a right not exercised is a right lost. I dont look at everyone that walks by as a criminal waiting to attack, but i'm cautious and aware that it could happen. I was jumped by 6 gang bangers one night leaving my friends appt because they were talking sh*t to my wife and i told them to f*ck off. thats it. that prompted them to pull over their car, get out, and try to jump me. luckily i threw my wife in our car which was close and got around to the driver side where with 6 guy trying to hit me, only the guy who snuck up from the back succeeded, and only with one, pretty weak hit. then they scattered. It was scary, sure, mostly because i didn't know if they had weapons. Had i been UOC (and not been drinking), things would have gone MUCH differently.
I guess my point is, if we feel like everyone is a criminal, our paranoia will get us. if we just exercise our right to UOC with a cautious mind, a polite attitude, and a fine tuned ability to handle our guns; i think we'll all be better off. plus: !!!!!LEARN YOUR LOCAL LAWS FIRST!!!!!

greg36f
11-18-2009, 2:48 PM
It isn't illegal to DRESS like a cop. It is illegal to IMPERSONATE a cop.

Besides, off-duty gear can be had by anyone. Hell, I have some off-duty-esque gear at my house.

Penal code section 538d (b) (1) states that you are guilty if you "fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a police officer"....That's a lighter burden to prove that having to prove, "your intent to deceive".......If you dress like a cop and a "reasonable person" would believe you were a cop, it sounds like you could be guilty.......Or at least arrested.

Besides, Nate, You wanna share why you have, "off duty-esque gear" at your house?......Sounds like a police fetish to me.......:D

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 3:03 PM
I have been told many times for many years I look like a cop, and I have never been a cop. I don't mind it.

That's kind of funny actually. So a person who has never been a cop doesn't mind people thinking he might be a cop. And the real cops do their dead level best to try and not look like cops.

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 3:06 PM
Penal code section 538d (b) (1) states that you are guilty if you "fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a police officer"....That's a lighter burden to prove that having to prove, "your intent to deceive".......If you dress like a cop and a "reasonable person" would believe you were a cop, it sounds like you could be guilty.......Or at least arrested.

Besides, Nate, You wanna share why you have, "off duty-esque gear" at your house?......Sounds like a police fetish to me.......:D

Now I've seen it all. They actually have a law that says thou shalt not look like a cop.

http://pushpull.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/arte.jpg

greg36f
11-18-2009, 3:16 PM
At least two actually..........One for police badges 538 (b) (1) PC and one for police uniforms 538 (a).....Then there are dozens more for impersonation fire personnel, Public Utility employee's and believe it or not, members of secret society, fraternal or religious order's (538b PC).......That got laws for EVERYTHING!!!!!

How about 538a PC, You can't send a letter to a newspaper signed with the name of another.......

Kid Stanislaus
11-18-2009, 5:13 PM
Restoring our rights is very important and I would hate to see the socialists get any justifiable reasons from us because of what we did or failed to do. As I've said before, I don't UOC in my town because there is just no reason. Everyone is polite or keeps to themselves and so UOC would just invite unnecessary ridicule where none is needed.

Stop kidding yourself, there is NO safe place in America any more.

anthonyca
11-18-2009, 5:28 PM
It isn't illegal to DRESS like a cop. It is illegal to IMPERSONATE a cop.

Besides, off-duty gear can be had by anyone. Hell, I have some off-duty-esque gear at my house.

Are you ok? Hell? I was thinking you would say jeepers or golly.

Roadrunner
11-18-2009, 5:38 PM
Stop kidding yourself, there is NO safe place in America any more.

Well, I don't know about Oakdale, but Patterson seems to be well taken care of by the Sheriffs. I won't go to the airport district in Modesto but generally speaking, Stanislaus county is pretty docile compared to places like L.A. and San Bernardino.

pullnshoot25
11-18-2009, 5:41 PM
Are you ok? Hell? I was thinking you would say jeepers or golly.

Perfectly OK. I don't do Scooby Doo impressions anymore so those expressions are kinda out, sorry!

nick
11-18-2009, 6:42 PM
Perfectly OK. I don't do Scooby Doo impressions anymore so those expressions are kinda out, sorry!

Crikey, how could that be??? :confused:

Vinz
11-18-2009, 8:33 PM
ok, I had to stop reading the comments section at page 8 because I was in danger of losing what IQ I still have. Luckily some was restored when I read BudBandits post, but was lost again when I read the absolute drivel by the brain donor posting as "Heartmasq". He actually threatens to sue people who would prevent him being a "defenseless victim". theres a few good points...quoted from John415:

I am all for exercising your rights but what it the person legally carrying was a felon, a sex offender or is in possession of a stolen gun? What's to stop the criminals to pull their illegally acquired weapon out from under their trench coats and on to belt secured holsters? What kind of society would we be in then?

I am a legal, law abiding citizen that will exercise my rights behind the doors of my home. I don't feel the need to flaunt my firearms thank you.

I just hope these guys know what they might be creating. More bills and restrictions for us all. Next watch for the following laws:
no firearms within 30 feet of a retail store.
no firearms within 10 feet of a public sidewalk.
no firearms within a vehicle carrying more than 2 passengers.

I believe if the Black Panthers knew the laws they would creating by their actions they probably would not have walked into a government building carrying legally loaded weapons back in 1968. This butterfly will not flap his wings....


...he brings up a few good points but does this give the bad guys an opening to put them out in the open unloaded and the police no longer have the right to question them? Just perform a loaded check? I can see change coming.

vinz

anthonyca
11-18-2009, 9:28 PM
Perfectly OK. I don't do Scooby Doo impressions anymore so those expressions are kinda out, sorry!

Sorry if that was insulting. Just razzing you a bit. I just have a limited vocabulary and what pops in my mind are words like, @"&$, and
@!?:. You just crack me up with your animated typing.