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View Full Version : Always exercise the fifth


nn3453
11-17-2009, 5:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

Very persuasive.

Edit: Sorry if this has been posted before but please watch it if you already haven't.

cdtx2001
11-17-2009, 6:07 PM
Seen it before, and yes it's very good.

bohoki
11-17-2009, 6:32 PM
its a dupe but it should be required viewing every week

nothing you say will ever help you

plee da fif

Maltese Falcon
11-17-2009, 7:10 PM
Excellent stuff....I keep telling my wife this since she is a scaredy cat when it comes to LEOs.

GrizzlyGuy
11-17-2009, 7:25 PM
its a dupe but it should be required viewing every week

nothing you say will ever help you


+1000 I post links to those every chance I get.

A while back, I happened to run into my criminal defense lawyer friend while I was getting a smog check. I mentioned those videos. She said something like 'yeah, they're great, and if everyone watched them and did what they say, I'd probably have half the business I do now'.

People are their own worst enemy: they want to be friendly and cooperative to the cops, and my friend just ends up charging them a lot of money to try and get them out of the jam that their friendliness got them into.

P.S. - Saying things like "I have nothing illegal in the car" is another bad idea. The laws are so complex that you might actually have something illegal in your car and not know about it. Or, your friend/wife/kid/whoever might have left something illegal in your car. If the cops search and find it, your statement will now be used against you.

The best possible answer to all LEO questions is no answer at all.

Meplat
11-17-2009, 8:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

Very persuasive.

Edit: Sorry if this has been posted before but please watch it if you already haven't.

Thanks; I needed to hear that again! It's really tough to toe that line.

I got pulled over the other night for a non-functional license plate light.

I'm like: "Oh ****, think before you open the pie hole!"

I told my passenger to get his hands up where the officer could see them. I had my hands at 10 & 2 with my wallet in my left hand before he got to the driver's side window I had my .357 in an inside the waist band rig. I stoped carrying my CCW in an obvious position opposite my CDL in my bifold wallet, but I'm fairly sure when they run the CDL the CCW will come up. I know my registered assault weapon does.

Fortunately, all the officer said was, paraphrasing: "Good evening. The reason I stopped you was that you license plate light does not seem to be working. May I see your drivers license?"

I of course Produced the license (class A with Dbls, Tripls, Tnks, & Hazmat which requires an FBI homeland security check) post haste. The officer then disappeared into the ten trillion candle power spotlight. He came back with my license in about 5 minutes, suggested I stop at auto zone and get a bulb and said have a nice day!

Great! But I doubt that was the real reason he stopped us. Just as the stop was coming to a close three cruisers went by going in the direction from which we had come, code 3 balls out. I suspect something more serious than a burned out light bulb was afoot. I think we were in a vehicle at least roughly similar to one involved. When the officer got a look at us and we did not match race, sex, or age of the suspects, and he had a photo ID in hand that told him I had passed not one but two recent FBI background checks, he suddenly had much more pressing business than to mess with writing a fix it ticket.

But what if we did match the description? What if he had asked more probing questions, before I caught on that something possibly very evil had just happened in the neighborhood? Could have wound up in a nightmare! Damn! this is a dilemma for the average citizen!:43:

Kid Stanislaus
11-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Excellent stuff....I keep telling my wife this since she is a scaredy cat when it comes to LEOs.



She might do well to seek professional counseling about her relations with authority figures.

Flopper
11-18-2009, 11:48 AM
Same thing happened to me on Sunday. Stopped for no front license plate, even though I haven't had one on that car for all of its nearly ten year life.

"Get that fixed when you have a chance, have a nice evening, sir." No fix-it ticket, no nothing.

I've done ride-alongs and have friends that are cops, and they all say that they use minor vehicle code and traffic violations as RS or PC to stop people for more serious probable/possible crimes.

Dr Rockso
11-18-2009, 11:55 AM
P.S. - Saying things like "I have nothing illegal in the car" is another bad idea. The laws are so complex that you might actually have something illegal in your car and not know about it. Or, your friend/wife/kid/whoever might have left something illegal in your car. If the cops search and find it, your statement will now be used against you.

The best possible answer to all LEO questions is no answer at all.
I see the argument, but what is a LEO going to do if you simply ignore a yes-or-no question like that? My guess is it won't be pleasant; waiting on the shoulder for 45 min while they wait for a K9 unit sounds like a bucket of fun. Then it's not like they can't claim that the dog signaled the presence of something, regardless (doubt this is common, but I'm sure it happens). Is there any polite way to decline answering a question like "are there any weapons in the vehicle?"

Glock22Fan
11-18-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't see why saying that there's nothing illegal in the car is going to get you into trouble. To start with, that hardly gives them probable cause to do a search and find whatever illegal thing you have forgotten (me, I have never had any illegal thing in there, so unless the garage mechanic is real dumb and hid his stash in there, I'm pretty safe).

And, what if they did find the garage guy's secret stash? You ain't any worse off because they think you lied about it.

Saying there's nothing illegal in the car is only a subset of saying "I've done nothing wrong, can I please be on my way?"

You aren't any more suspicious saying that than saying nothing. Less so, probably, because the cops like to think that they can look you in the eye when you say that and tell if you are lying or not. If you are not lying, then you might gain a brownie point.

And, as I've said before, I've been in roughly that situation with a sailing boat and British customs when the customs officer tried to talk me into an admission regarding drugs. I know "I have nothing illegal on board" works, but you might have to repeat it a couple of times. And British customs officers don't need probable cause to initiate a search.

bwiese
11-18-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't see a problem in CA saying "there's nothing illegal..." and if things go further, "I assert my 4th Amendment rights and I do NOT consent to a search".

The cop may or may not overstep his bounds, but at least you have not surrendered rights.

It may be worth the 45 mins extra. But it likely won't happen (plus or minus your appearance/age).

If involved with any Fed matters (Fed LE) etc. USC 1001 is bad (think Martha Stewart). Do not assert innocence, decline search, and refer to lawyer, *period*.

GrizzlyGuy
11-18-2009, 12:45 PM
I see the argument, but what is a LEO going to do if you simply ignore a yes-or-no question like that? My guess is it won't be pleasant; waiting on the shoulder for 45 min while they wait for a K9 unit sounds like a bucket of fun. Then it's not like they can't claim that the dog signaled the presence of something, regardless (doubt this is common, but I'm sure it happens). Is there any polite way to decline answering a question like "are there any weapons in the vehicle?"

I haven't had a chance to try this out yet, but this would be my statement:

"Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job and I respect that. But as you know, I'm not required to answer any questions and I choose not to. I hope you'll respect that as well."

The idea there is to be polite, understanding and respectful. Hopefully they will treat you the same way. If not, then back to remaining silent, other than to assert my rights ("I do not consent to a search", etc.).

Yeah, it might mean a longer detention, but IMHO that's better than taking a chance on an even longer and way more expensive arrest and trial.

IrishPirate
11-18-2009, 1:02 PM
pretty awesome, thanks for posting, i hadn't seen it. I've gotten out of a night in jail (well, the drunk tank) for talking to the cops honestly about some BS call for me walking home from the bars. all i said was "that's not what happened, here are my friends who are witnessess to what i've been doing which was just walking on the sidewalk, that's all i've done so that's all i can say". worked great because they were hot to take me to jail and i think they realized they would have a serious case against them if they took me and not my friends who were with me the whole time and who they say didn't do anything wrong. that's just my story, sorry, had to share with somone :)

POLICESTATE
11-18-2009, 1:06 PM
I haven't had a chance to try this out yet, but this would be my statement:

"Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job and I respect that. But as you know, I'm not required to answer any questions and I choose not to. I hope you'll respect that as well."

The idea there is to be polite, understanding and respectful. Hopefully they will treat you the same way. If not, then back to remaining silent, other than to assert my rights ("I do not consent to a search", etc.).

Yeah, it might mean a longer detention, but IMHO that's better than taking a chance on an even longer and way more expensive arrest and trial.

I like it, I should put a small card and keep in my car :)

kcbrown
11-18-2009, 2:04 PM
I presume it follows from the advice given that one should not ever report anything to the police that isn't strictly required, either? More precisely, is there any situation at all when one should talk to the police, whether one is initiating the conversation or not? Are there any laws which compel one to talk to the police (e.g., to report something)?

ETA: doesn't calling 911 constitute "talking to the police"?

Wild Squid
11-19-2009, 2:40 AM
Awesome, I learned some new things in those videos. Just when I thought I had everything covered I find out I don't

Gio
11-19-2009, 4:36 PM
Yup, keep your mouth shut. Not trying to be anti-police but all they do is con you into incriminating yourself :o

-Gio

Liberty1
11-19-2009, 5:12 PM
check this out too http://flexyourrights.org/

Liberty1
11-19-2009, 5:20 PM
I don't see a problem in CA saying "there's nothing illegal..." and if things go further, "I assert my 4th Amendment rights and I do NOT consent to a search".

The cop may or may not overstep his bounds, but at least you have not surrendered rights.

It may be worth the 45 mins extra. But it likely won't happen (plus or minus your appearance/age).

If involved with any Fed matters (Fed LE) etc. USC 1001 is bad (think Martha Stewart). Do not assert innocence, decline search, and refer to lawyer, *period*.

AND ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS CARRY A RECORDING DEVICE AND USE IT!!!!

five.five-six
11-19-2009, 5:23 PM
yes, recording device