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usctrojan
11-17-2009, 10:31 AM
So I have been learning about all the different gun lobbyist groups and can honestly say there is enough out there to make your head spin! Claims that the NRA drafts anti-gun legislation and other things that seem possible but I cannot verify the validity of. They also all seem to have slightly different interpretations of the 2nd amendment. I would love to support a lobbying group but I don't want to see my money wasted on things that don't progress our causes as gun owners. I.e. they have motives that don't pertain to guns or they actually are an anti-gun group in disguise. I would especially like to protect our interests as Californians as we have the most oppressive laws. Anyone have any thoughts our guidance on this? Where can I learn more?

berto
11-17-2009, 11:03 AM
Read up on some of the NRA threads here. The "NRA doesn't do anything" myth is debunked.

Read up on the CRPA threads here.

Read up on CalGuns Foundation.

Join NRA, CRPA, and donate to CGF.

Get involved in the fight by volunteering etc.

Thanks for joining us in the fight.

oaklander
11-17-2009, 11:14 AM
Yup!

Basically, there's the NRA and affiliated organizations that work with the NRA (like CRPA and CGF). These groups get stuff done.

Then there are about a hundred fringe 2A groups that don't actually get anything done (other than take your money).

Just stick with the "brand names."

Read up on some of the NRA threads here. The "NRA doesn't do anything" myth is debunked.

Read up on the CRPA threads here.

Read up on CalGuns Foundation.

Join NRA, CRPA, and donate to CGF.

Get involved in the fight by volunteering etc.

Thanks for joining us in the fight.

wildhawker
11-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Berto and Oak are right on the money.

Join NRA (http://membership.nrahq.org/), CRPA (http://www.crpa.org/), SAF (http://www.saf.org/) and donate to CGF (link below). Steer clear of GOA/GOC.

So I have been learning about all the different gun lobbyist groups and can honestly say there is enough out there to make your head spin! Claims that the NRA drafts anti-gun legislation and other things that seem possible but I cannot verify the validity of. They also all seem to have slightly different interpretations of the 2nd amendment. I would love to support a lobbying group but I don't want to see my money wasted on things that don't progress our causes as gun owners. I.e. they have motives that don't pertain to guns or they actually are an anti-gun group in disguise. I would especially like to protect our interests as Californians as we have the most oppressive laws. Anyone have any thoughts our guidance on this? Where can I learn more?

7x57
11-17-2009, 11:27 AM
Basically, there's the NRA and affiliated organizations that work with the NRA (like CRPA and CGF). These groups get stuff done.

Then there are about a hundred fringe 2A groups that don't actually get anything done (other than take your money).

Just stick with the "brand names."

What Oak said, with one caveat. There are focused groups with one specific agenda that may be useful. Shall-issue in many states was lead by a CCW-focused state organization. In fact, Calguns would count as one (so far)--it doesn't lobby, it doesn't sanction shooting matches, it is focused on effective litigation. That's a focused goal it can do well because it has few distractions.

The NRA appears to be the useful nationwide full-service 2A group, and CRPA the useful state full-service 2A group. Calguns is the pick of the focused-goal litter.

7x57

wildhawker
11-17-2009, 11:31 AM
COHA is another very effective CA-based group focused on one specific aspect of the overall issue.

usctrojan
11-17-2009, 11:40 AM
Berto and Oak are right on the money.

Join NRA (http://membership.nrahq.org/), CRPA (http://www.crpa.org/), SAF (http://www.saf.org/) and donate to CGF (link below). Steer clear of GOA/GOC.

Thanks for all the tips. I can better see now the roles that each of these groups play. Lobbying, Litigation, etc. I will continue to do research.

I am interested in why you say steer clear of GOA/GOC.

wildhawker
11-17-2009, 12:40 PM
Thanks for all the tips. I can better see now the roles that each of these groups play. Lobbying, Litigation, etc. I will continue to do research.

I am interested in why you say steer clear of GOA/GOC.

Here are 2 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=73228) threads (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=74140)for your consideration.

Keep in mind that these discussions took place prior to the recent positive changes at CRPA.

CHS
11-17-2009, 1:20 PM
I am interested in why you say steer clear of GOA/GOC.

The GOA bills themselves as a "No compromise" organization. They want nothing more than the full repeal of all gun control laws in the US at once. Well as much as I want that too, it just aint gonna happen.

The GOA is not based in reality, and therefore they just end up taking your money and not doing a single thing good for gun owners.

oaklander
11-17-2009, 1:27 PM
LOL - but they are endorsed by Ron Paul, so they must be good!

:rolleyes:

The GOA bills themselves as a "No compromise" organization. They want nothing more than the full repeal of all gun control laws in the US at once. Well as much as I want that too, it just aint gonna happen.

The GOA is not based in reality, and therefore they just end up taking your money and not doing a single thing good for gun owners.

7x57
11-17-2009, 1:29 PM
T
The GOA is not based in reality, and therefore they just end up taking your money and not doing a single thing good for gun owners.

Yah, but worse, they mainly fund-raise by bashing the NRA, which means they're a net negative force. It took me a while before I found out a major reason that most CA gun owners believe "the NRA has given up on California": apparently GoC raised money on that message a while back.

I could be fond of them if they simply didn't do any good. The fact that they throw stones at the people who do actual good makes them A Bad Thing. Think how much effort gets expended on Calguns just to dispel that rumor.

You know, I bet Oaklander has a graph to explain this.... :D

One other point to add my previous post. What makes CGF particularly nice is that their niche happens to be the Right Thing at the Right Time. They only do one thing--but post-Incorporation they will be doing the single most effective thing. That's the optimal role for focused groups--to focus strength on the enemy's weakness.

One weakness, coming right up. Say, June? :43:

7x57

usctrojan
11-17-2009, 1:36 PM
The GOA bills themselves as a "No compromise" organization. They want nothing more than the full repeal of all gun control laws in the US at once. Well as much as I want that too, it just aint gonna happen.

The GOA is not based in reality, and therefore they just end up taking your money and not doing a single thing good for gun owners.


I agree with you on the fact that trying not to compromise is a huge waste in money. Their stance on gun control that better matches my interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Too bad.

7x57
11-17-2009, 2:09 PM
I agree with you on the fact that trying not to compromise is a huge waste in money. Their stance on gun control that better matches my interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Too bad.

I think most of us are fine with their stance. It's the way in which they pursue it that's the problem. The pragmatic NRA/CGF approach will get us closer to the GOA ideal than GOA ever could.

Keep in mind that the NRA is grown-up enough to know what "tact" means. That "let's enforce the laws we have" slogan that GOA took them task on for decades? The most anti-gun administration in history is now using their talking points, because they have no choice. That's pull.

At some point, we'll have made enough progress that those words can be changed, but they work politically. Anyone who has seen what the NRA *actually* does knows that they work to take down bad laws when possible. They just don't go around talking it up on the media, because it's not tactically advisable. Or notice how the gun-banners are now complaining that the NRA says "enforce existing laws" but keeps undermining all their gains over the past fifty years. You know, the same way (almost) all the gun-banners insisted for all these years they weren't pursuing a incremental strategy aiming at a complete ban. How's it feel, there, Paul and Sarah? :43:

Maybe I'm wrong, and it'll turn out to be useful to keep saying those words the whole time we're using Heller and McDonald as a scourge on the backs of the more anti-gun states. If so, that's fine--whatever works.

7x57

bulgron
11-17-2009, 2:44 PM
Near as I can tell, money to GOA/GOC and the myriad other "pro-gun but completely ineffective organizations" is just throwing cash into a black hole. Time and money to the NRA, SAF, CRPA, and/or CalGuns is the only path forward at this time.

Within the pro-gun organizations that actually get things done, you have some choices:

- Money to the SAF helps to fight the battle on the national level.
- Money to CalGuns and CRPA helps to fight the battle within California.
- Money to the NRA helps with about equal measure to fight the battle both in CA and on the national level.

CHS
11-17-2009, 2:47 PM
- Money to the SAF helps to fight the battle on the national level.
- Money to CalGuns and CRPA helps to fight the battle within California.
- Money to the NRA helps with about equal measure to fight the battle both in CA and on the national level.

And one thing to remember about all three of these organizations is that they WORK TOGETHER to affect the same end goal and NOT step on each others toes.

Donating time money to any one of these organizations actually helps the others.

7x57
11-17-2009, 3:03 PM
Near as I can tell, money to GOA/GOC and the myriad other "pro-gun but completely ineffective organizations" is just throwing cash into a black hole.

One interesting thing about the anti-NRA agenda is you can almost count on the purveyors of it being guilty themselves of whatever they bash the NRA for doing. In particular, the NRA is the only one that is an actual member organization which has elections that matter and a mechanism for pushback from the members. When's the last time you voted for GOA/GOC leadership? You didn't, because they're wholly-owned private companies. In fact, one condition national put on CRPA as part of cleaning themselves up and retaining affiliation was that they have elections and become a membership organization.

Much of the time your money to certain groups goes to the pockets of people who write press releases and not much else, but I suppose I shouldn't get into that.

None of that would be intolerable if those groups delivered value-for-money, but it's notable that they do not. I don't mind Wayne LaPierre making an executive's salary--his "corporation" delivers, and I fear when he retires we'll end up spending more than his salary employing several people to replace him. I don't mind CGF not having elections--they deliver value for money.

Groups that just throw stones at the people doing actual work and raise money by being parasites should go into politics and join the entitlement party. :43:

7x57