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View Full Version : having C&R handguns sent into CA


savasyn
11-16-2009, 10:15 PM
I just want to be 100% clear that it's legal to buy a C&R handgun off gunbroker from a private party and have it shipped here to an 01FFL. No roster issues, no CFLC issues.

Is that correct?

Oh, if it's coming from an 01FFL, do they need to do the CFLC thing even though it's a C&R?

savasyn
11-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Cool, thanks!
If it's a private party, I just need to get my local dealer to fax them a copy of their FFL and the seller overnights the item to them, is that correct?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-16-2009, 10:59 PM
Cool, thanks!
If it's a private party, I just need to get my local dealer to fax them a copy of their FFL and the seller overnights the item to them, is that correct?

FFL's are not required to provide a copy of their license to non-FFL's. Many FFL's prefer to have non-FFL's verify their license status by using BATFE's FFL EZ Check system.

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

savasyn
11-16-2009, 11:04 PM
Excellent, thank you!

ke6guj
11-17-2009, 12:35 AM
It's fine to buy a C & R off of GB. Private party is ok to send directly to an 01 and CFLC does not come into play. Since it's a C & R roster does not apply (just make sure that it can be proven that it is 50 or older).
It is roster-exempt if it is a C&R handgun by age or by listing. A listed C&R handgun, not 50-years old, is also roster-exempt.

For instance, the CZ82 and Bren 10 are listed C&R handguns that aren't 50-years old yet. They are roster-exempt.

M. D. Van Norman
11-17-2009, 8:04 AM
You also have to find a local dealer who understands the law regarding C&R handguns.

steadyrock
11-17-2009, 10:52 AM
Expanding on this a bit, if I have a 03 FFL myself then is it legal for me to have a C&R handgun shipped directly to my home address from out of state, as long as I follow the correct procedures in recording the acquisition in my bound book?

ke6guj
11-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Expanding on this a bit, if I have a 03 FFL myself then is it legal for me to have a C&R handgun shipped directly to my home address from out of state, as long as I follow the correct procedures in recording the acquisition in my bound book?nope. CA law requires all handgun transfers go through an 01FFL, with some exemptions, and having an 03 is not one of them.

You can physically go out of state, purchase C&R handguns, and bring them back to CA as long as they are in a CA-legal configuration. YOu will need to register them within 5 days of importing them.

steadyrock
11-17-2009, 10:59 AM
nope. CA law requires all handgun transfers go through an 01FFL, with some exemptions, and having an 03 is not one of them.

You can physically go out of state, purchase C&R handguns, and bring them back to CA as long as they are in a CA-legal configuration. YOu will need to register them within 5 days of importing them.

Thank you. If I replaced "handgun" with "long gun" in my question, then would it be legal for those?

ke6guj
11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
Thank you. If I replaced "handgun" with "long gun" in my question, then would it be legal for those?

Yes, you can have a C&R long gun shipped directly to your house, as long as it is 50+ years old.

You can't have C&R long guns that are less than 50-years old, but are listed in the C&R book, shipped directly to you. Has to do with CA law.

But once again, when physically out of state, you can purchase a C&R firearm of any age, and bring it back to CA as long as it is in a CA-legal configuration. C&R handguns would need to be reported, but long guns don't.

steadyrock
11-17-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes, you can have a C&R long gun shipped directly to your house, as long as it is 50+ years old.

You can't have C&R long guns that are less than 50-years old, but are listed in the C&R book, shipped directly to you. Has to do with CA law.

But once again, when physically out of state, you can purchase a C&R firearm of any age, and bring it back to CA as long as it is in a CA-legal configuration. C&R handguns would need to be reported, but long guns don't.

OK, that helps. Thanks.

M. D. Van Norman
11-17-2009, 11:58 AM
The only problem with the supposed C&R handgun restriction is that if you follow that interpretation, you should probably apply a similarly strict standard of interpretation to C&R long guns. The statutory exemptions can apply only within California.

savasyn
11-17-2009, 4:50 PM
The only problem with the supposed C&R handgun restriction is that if you follow that interpretation, you should probably apply a similarly strict standard of interpretation to C&R long guns. The statutory exemptions can apply only within California.

I don't quite get what you mean there. Can you please rephrase in layman's terms?

M. D. Van Norman
11-18-2009, 7:35 AM
All of the following assumes that a licensed collector is on the receiving end.

C&R handguns are allegedly illegal to ship in from out of state, because California law requires that all handguns be transferred through licensed dealers. In fact, the law is largely silent on how a C&R handgun may be imported … except where registration is concerned.

C&R long guns that are more than 50 years old are allegedly legal to ship in from out of state, because California law allows for infrequent transfers between non-licensees. In fact, non-licensees (from California’s perspective) ship hundreds if not thousands of C&R long guns into the state every year.

If we apply the same level of strictness to our legal interpretation in both areas, we should reach one of only two possible conclusions. Either all interstate transfers of non-prohibited C&R firearms are legal, or all interstate transfers of non-prohibited C&R firearms are illegal. Instead, nonsensically, the popular interpretation is that one is legal while the other is not.

I think that the disconnect was driven by a lawsuit out of San Francisco in 2001, which was then followed by a cautious legal memo from Trutanich-Michel.

yellowfin
11-18-2009, 8:35 AM
How many C&R dated AR15's might there be? I'm guessing as years go on the numbers will increase, but how many of them from say '58 to '63 (to put them in the near future) are out there?

M. D. Van Norman
11-18-2009, 8:51 AM
But how many are named “assault weapons”? :(