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jakemccoy
11-16-2009, 1:40 PM
I have a friend who is in the military reserve. He described to me the following police stop:

"I was pulled over by a police officer in Oakland, driving through to drop off some Audit paperwork for a store a week ago, and the Police man, asked if I had any weapons in my car. I said 'NO, but I have my Gear in the trunk' he looked at me funny, I pulled out my Firearms and BSIS paperwork, he said 'Oh, you are one of us, have a good day.'"

I was a bit irritated by the cop's response. My response to my friend was the following:

"Haha...but the cop is a civilian. You're military, right? The cop is closer to being one of me."

=====

Should I be irritated by the cop's statement, or am I wrong?

FastFinger
11-16-2009, 1:44 PM
Better than having the cop say "Oh, you're one of them..." and hassling your friend over some crap...

a1c
11-16-2009, 1:46 PM
You're irritated by THAT? Seriously?

jakemccoy
11-16-2009, 1:50 PM
It's better if my friend is invisible and never gets stopped. That's not my point. I understand the cop has a gun, can take you off to jail if you sneeze wrong, etc.

My irritation stems more from a legal standpoint. Am I technically correct in the original post or not?

mtptwo
11-16-2009, 1:50 PM
You're irritated by THAT? Seriously?

I would be considering the whole "us vs. them" mode that some police have.

They are civilians. They have a duty to treat all under their watch by the same methods.

Farquaad
11-16-2009, 1:54 PM
Whenever a cop pulls you over and says "oh, well, in that case have a good day" for whatever reason you have no right to be irritated, you should be counting your blessings.

a1c
11-16-2009, 1:55 PM
I would be considering the whole "us vs. them" mode that some police have.

They are civilians. They have a duty to treat all under their watch by the same methods.

You're seeing it as an "us vs. them". I see it as a word of camaraderie between two people wearing a uniform and serving their country. Yes, one of them is technically a civilian, and the other a military.

But you're automatically assuming that it means the cop sees the rest of civilians as strangers. Some police, as you say, may have that mentality, but most I know don't.

I think there are other things that are much worthier to be irritated about, and this is not one of them.

jakemccoy
11-16-2009, 1:57 PM
Notice that I was not stopped. My friend (military reserve) was stopped. I'm pretty sure that if I (a civilian) had been stopped, then this particular cop would have given me substantially more grief. That's the source of my irritation. It's the "us vs. them" mentality.

jakemccoy
11-16-2009, 2:01 PM
You're seeing it as an "us vs. them". I see it as a word of camaraderie between two people wearing a uniform and serving their country. Yes, one of them is technically a civilian, and the other a military.

But you're automatically assuming that it means the cop sees the rest of civilians as strangers. Some police, as you say, may have that mentality, but most I know don't.

I think there are other things that are much worthier to be irritated about, and this is not one of them.

Well, according to my friend's story, the cop did look at him funny before he found out "he's one of us". The funny thing is that, no, the cop is not one of them.

By the way, the statement you said above is interesting. You said there is a camaraderie because both cops and military wear uniforms and serve their country. I have never viewed cops as "serving our country". That sound like we're venturing off into veteran territory. I'm not at ease with the analogy to a soldier.

Mayhem
11-16-2009, 2:06 PM
Umm Comparing reserve military to Law enforcement is like comparing apples to oranges. bout the only thing they have in common is they both tell time the same way.

BSIS is the department in consumer affairs that regulates private security officers. So the "One of us" comment was a compliment as most LEO's look down on security guards as the lowest form of wanta be's. Even more so then the way Active military looks down on the National Guard/Reserves/and Militia as weekend warriors- Yes California has an official state militia.

If the LEO wanted to be a jerk he could pushed The limits of the BSIS LOC permit as well as other permits and "Gear". Unless you as a licensed security officer are on the job or going to and from your job in the course of regular employment your are under the same firearms and weapons restrictions as every one else. In fact its is The Baton that actually gets people in trouble the most as possession alone is a felony unless licensed to carry it and either on the job or to and from the job. Just having it in your car when driving around town and going grocery shopping can get you in trouble unless you have a darn good reason (remember you use it to prop up the hood of your car 8) ) The "gear" statement alone would have given him Legal probable cause to Inspect the "Gear" as well as the permits, and if not carried in the method described by the law could have cited or even arrested the subject. Your employer can also be contacted to see if you where really going to and from the job.

So there really is no reason to get offended. It was more of a compliment then anything else. The only reason one would have grounds to get offended is the above mentioned "Us Vs them" mentality.

POLICESTATE
11-16-2009, 2:06 PM
DHS wants every civil servant to feel like he's on the same team regardless if they are civilian police or military. We're all in this together, if you're not with us you are with the terrorists!

a1c
11-16-2009, 2:09 PM
Well, according to my friend's story, the cop did look at him funny before he found out "he's one of us". The funny thing is that, no, the cop not one of them.

By the way, the statement you said above is interesting. You said there is a camaraderie because both cops and military wear uniforms and serve their country. I have never viewed cops as "serving our country". That sound like we're venturing off into veteran territory.

OK, I get your point: military serve their country, cops serve the public. Still, both jobs include a sense of duty to providing some sort of public service and dedication to the general safety. Or maybe the cop was a vet or reserve military, who knows.

Cops on duty are trained to assume the worst, so they can prepare for it. So yeah, sometimes they'll look at you funny if you have an unusual attitude or give a shifty answer. I spend a lot of time around cops so I understand the attitude. Of course I don't like it when I get pulled over just because my taillight is out like the other night, but they're doing their job - and the guy was courteous and polite.

A lot of people who seem to have a systematic, knee-jerk reaction about LEOs should sign up for a ride-along with their local PD or SO. It provides a bit of perspective.

jakemccoy
11-16-2009, 2:09 PM
Umm Comparing reserve military to Law enforcement is like comparing apples to oranges. bout the only thing they have in common is they both tell time the same way.

BSIS is the department in consumer affairs that regulates private security officers. So the "One of us" comment was a compliment as most LEO's look down on security guards as the lowest form of wanta be's. Even more so then the way Active military looks down on the National Guard/Reserves/and Militia as weekend warriors- Yes California has an official state militia.

If the LEO wanted to be a jerk he could pushed The limits of the BSIS LOC permit as well as other permits and "Gear". Unless you as a licensed security officer are on the job or going to and from your job in the course of regular employment your are under the same firearms and weapons restrictions as every one else (The Baton is the one that actually gets people in trouble the most). which would have given him Legal probable cause to Inspect the "Gear" and if not carried in the method described by the law could have cited or even arrested the subject.

So there really is no reason to get offended. It was more of a compliment then anything else. The only reason one would have grounds to get offended is the above mentioned "Us Vs them" mentality.

My friend has served in Iraq, and has been shot at. He's a veteran. A cop cannot claim veteran status without having been to war. You may have assumed too much about my friend's background based on the license he was carrying. I don't want this to be a pissing match. I just had to clarify if there was any confusion.

Untamed1972
11-16-2009, 2:15 PM
A lot of people who seem to have a systematic, knee-jerk reaction about LEOs should sign up for a ride-along with their local PD or SO. It provides a bit of perspective.


Yeah....cuz then that way you can see first hand how a stumbling drunk driver, who was also a probation officer, who ran a red light right in front of the patrol car I was riding in got a free ride home in the back of the patrol car and a stern "you'd better be more careful in the future" as he was dropped at his front door.


Yep.....they actually did that with a civilian ride-along in the car. At least I got to see how REAL police work is handled. Didn't do much for building my respect for the profession though.

Cokebottle
11-16-2009, 2:26 PM
Better than having the cop say "Oh, you're one of them..." and hassling your friend over some crap...
This happened in Oakland.
Your scenario would have been across the delta in Berzerkeley.

greg36f
11-16-2009, 2:32 PM
I would be considering the whole "us vs. them" mode that some police have.

They are civilians. They have a duty to treat all under their watch by the same methods.

This is a perfect example where real life comes into conflict with reality. You say that EVERYONE should be treated the same, but you don't mean it and it's not true.

Often times, good people get treated better. Thatís how you want it......You put in a lifetime if paying taxes, raising good children and working for what you get, you expect a little better treatment than the guy who never worked a day in his life and spent most of his life taking from society (ie career criminal). Thatís just how it is. Iím not talking abuse here, just human bias.

Itís not just cops that this affects. Itís no different than what most of us practice every day. Late at night on a dark street, you will give a large, angry, loud guy a wider berth than a priest taking out the trash from his church. Same street, same time of night, no crime being committed by either. We all treat people different based on our life experiences.

Most of us, even cops; respect soldiers, teachers, elders, doctor's ect.

Thatís human nature and believe it or not, cops are human.

sgtbuck
11-16-2009, 2:32 PM
I have a feeling this is not going to end well... :lurk5:
There is always one that just can't wait to bash Police Officers with what they saw or thought they saw.

IrishPirate
11-16-2009, 2:38 PM
Better than having the cop say "Oh, you're one of them..." and hassling your friend over some crap...

+1

I'm a fireman and one time i got pulled over for speeding (barely) in FULL UNIFORM with all my gear in the car by CHP. Did i get that kind of respect? no, i got a ticket.

Swatter911
11-16-2009, 2:41 PM
OP - If a second-hand statement irritates you......well, suffice it to say, you're wrong.

Hangings and new ropes spring to mind.

Cpl. Haas
11-16-2009, 5:09 PM
OP - you are wrong in one major aspect... police officers are NOT civilians. You need to check the definition of that word again.

ci⋅vil⋅ian   [si-vil-yuhn]
Ėnoun
1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.

chickenfried
11-16-2009, 5:13 PM
My dictionary says
A person following the pursuits of civil or non-military life.

Websters has the definition you quote. How has the term traditionally been defined and why would it change?

OP - you are wrong in one major aspect... police officers are NOT civilians. You need to check the definition of that word again.

Cpl. Haas
11-16-2009, 5:38 PM
If you're asking me what the traditional definition of 'civilian' was, I can't tell you... The current scholarly source I have available defines it as I quoted in my last post.

There's no debating that the meaning of words changes over times... I can only go by what the current definition available tells me.

Lyte-
11-16-2009, 5:51 PM
I have a friend who is in the military reserve. He described to me the following police stop:

"I was pulled over by a police officer in Oakland, driving through to drop off some Audit paperwork for a store a week ago, and the Police man, asked if I had any weapons in my car. I said 'NO, but I have my Gear in the trunk' he looked at me funny, I pulled out my Firearms and BSIS paperwork, he said 'Oh, you are one of us, have a good day.'"

I was a bit irritated by the cop's response. My response to my friend was the following:

"Haha...but the cop is a civilian. You're military, right? The cop is closer to being one of me."

=====

Should I be irritated by the cop's statement, or am I wrong?

You have as much right to be irratated as much as I have the right to be annoyed with your irratation.

pnkssbtz
11-16-2009, 5:54 PM
If you're asking me what the traditional definition of 'civilian' was, I can't tell you... The current scholarly source I have available defines it as I quoted in my last post.

There's no debating that the meaning of words changes over times... I can only go by what the current definition available tells me.When it comes to jurisdiction of law, there are two types of people who each fall under a different purview of law. They are Military Personnel, who are beholden by the UCMJ, and Civilians who are beholden to the regular laws (state and federal).

In that sense, a LEO, falls under the purview of CIVILIAN laws, as the CIVILIAN laws are what give him his authority. Where as the Military Personnel's authority is granted under the UCMJ.

Cpl. Haas
11-16-2009, 6:08 PM
It's true that local, state, and federal law enforcement officers take an oath to uphold the US Constitution, and to enforce the provisions of whatever applicable civilian law their agency's mandate falls under (Municiple Code, Penal Code, US Code, Health & Safety Code, etc.), While military law enforcement officers take an oath to uphold the US Constitution, and to enforce the provisions of the UCMJ.

While there is a clear difference in jurisdiction of law, by current definition, neither one is necessarily a civilian.

B Strong
11-16-2009, 6:13 PM
Notice that I was not stopped. My friend (military reserve) was stopped. I'm pretty sure that if I (a civilian) had been stopped, then this particular cop would have given me substantially more grief. That's the source of my irritation. It's the "us vs. them" mentality.

Humans and the world we live in are not perfect -there's the same chance that the officer that stopped your friend could have had a hard-on against troopers.

a1c
11-16-2009, 6:26 PM
I can't believe this thread is still going over the way the OP interpreted some second-hand comment during an event where no one got arrested nor even ticketed.

elSquid
11-16-2009, 6:31 PM
If you're asking me what the traditional definition of 'civilian' was, I can't tell you... The current scholarly source I have available defines it as I quoted in my last post.

There's no debating that the meaning of words changes over times... I can only go by what the current definition available tells me.

Personally, I think international law has the best definition.

The Geneva Convention of 1949:

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/INTRO/380?OpenDocument

Which seems to define civilian as those "Persons taking no active part in the hostilities" and who "perform no work of a military character."

Police officers are civilians.

Another way to pose the question: are police officers and police stations valid targets for an offensive military operation? If not, then they are civilians.

-- Michael

Cpl. Haas
11-16-2009, 6:54 PM
Yet I would further argue that police officers and police stations would definately be targets of an offensive military operation... how else would a foreign military plan to occupy our soil?

Granted, military bases and personnel would be target #1, but law enforcement would be targeted as well... fire stations and hospitals, on the other hand, could arguably be spared from attack.

Regardless, I think it's like "assault rifle"... gun owners, politicians, and the military will all have their own definition for them. :p

Mayhem
11-16-2009, 7:30 PM
My friend has served in Iraq, and has been shot at. He's a veteran. A cop cannot claim veteran status without having been to war. You may have assumed too much about my friend's background based on the license he was carrying. I don't want this to be a pissing match. I just had to clarify if there was any confusion.

Umm When "BSIS" is used the cop thought private security or Investigator not Military. I've been all 3. and I'm a combat Vet (11b). BSIS is the Bureau of Security and Investigative Services. I'm fairly certain this is why the LEO said "your one of us". Allot of Cops show security officers a certain level of professional courtesy while a small minority of Law enforcement officers look down at security officers as wanta be's. There is no way the officer could have known your friend was a military combat vet unless your friend advertised it. No Cop would have considered a G.I. as "one of us" unless He to was a VET.

I would also like to point out I have buried both allot of LEO friends killed on duty doing their Jobs and Military Friends Killed in on duty doing their jobs. Both occupations deserve a some respect in my honest opinion.

The Director
11-16-2009, 7:38 PM
Yet I would further argue that police officers and police stations would definately be targets of an offensive military operation... how else would a foreign military plan to occupy our soil?

Granted, military bases and personnel would be target #1, but law enforcement would be targeted as well... fire stations and hospitals, on the other hand, could arguably be spared from attack.

Regardless, I think it's like "assault rifle"... gun owners, politicians, and the military will all have their own definition for them. :p


Cops would make an easy and pointless target. The police aren't trained like the military to anticipate return fire en masse.

imtheomegaman
11-16-2009, 7:45 PM
I think the officer was just being polite, and a tiny gesture of thanks for your friends service. Sorta a head nod.

CSACANNONEER
11-16-2009, 7:55 PM
Umm Comparing reserve military to Law enforcement is like comparing apples to oranges. bout the only thing they have in common is they both tell time the same way.

BSIS is the department in consumer affairs that regulates private security officers. So the "One of us" comment was a compliment as most LEO's look down on security guards as the lowest form of wanta be's. Even more so then the way Active military looks down on the National Guard/Reserves/and Militia as weekend warriors- Yes California has an official state militia.

If the LEO wanted to be a jerk he could pushed The limits of the BSIS LOC permit as well as other permits and "Gear". Unless you as a licensed security officer are on the job or going to and from your job in the course of regular employment your are under the same firearms and weapons restrictions as every one else. In fact its is The Baton that actually gets people in trouble the most as possession alone is a felony unless licensed to carry it and either on the job or to and from the job. Just having it in your car when driving around town and going grocery shopping can get you in trouble unless you have a darn good reason (remember you use it to prop up the hood of your car 8) ) The "gear" statement alone would have given him Legal probable cause to Inspect the "Gear" as well as the permits, and if not carried in the method described by the law could have cited or even arrested the subject. Your employer can also be contacted to see if you where really going to and from the job.

So there really is no reason to get offended. It was more of a compliment then anything else. The only reason one would have grounds to get offended is the above mentioned "Us Vs them" mentality.


You are mistaken about when one can LOC with a BSIS card. You said only on the job and to and from it. You sort of forgot that there are other times that LOC is legal. Like on the way to or from a range. It's amazing just how many ranges are around and no matter which way one is driving, there is almost always a range in that direction or the direction you are coming from.

sf1973
11-16-2009, 8:11 PM
Sorry the Officer was courteous to your friend and viewed his as being on his side. Since you assume the officer would give you "grief" I understand the frustration and anger you must feel with the favorable treatment your friend received.

The last cop that stopped me must have known I was a veteran because he was polite and let me off with a warning. Man that really makes me mad now...

Noraku81
11-16-2009, 9:48 PM
Did the cop unlawfully detain your friend? No, merely inconvenienced him by stopping him and asking a few questions. Nothing really to get mad about in my opinion.

jeffb502
11-16-2009, 11:33 PM
You are mistaken about when one can LOC with a BSIS card. You said only on the job and to and from it. You sort of forgot that there are other times that LOC is legal. Like on the way to or from a range. It's amazing just how many ranges are around and no matter which way one is driving, there is almost always a range in that direction or the direction you are coming from.Don't forget that the loaded weapon exemption you are talking about is only for employer required range training. I think the section you are thinking of is this one: From www.leginfo.ca.gov:
PC12031(d)(5) Uniformed security guards, regularly employed and compensated in that capacity by persons engaged in any lawful business, and uniformed alarm agents employed by an alarm company operator, while actually engaged in protecting and preserving the property of their employers or on duty or en route to or from their residences or their places of employment, and security guards and alarm agents en route to or from their residences or employer-required range training. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prohibit cities and counties from enacting ordinances requiring alarm agents to register their names. I haven't looked into it, but maybe somebody knows if the exposed/loaded carry exception above applies to security guards not in uniform going to employer required range training. Notice the paragraph starts with "uniformed security guards" but then the phrase that talks about range training just says "security guards." There are sections in the Business and Professions code that state a security officer carrying a gun has to be wearing a uniform with a BSIS approved shoulder patch exposed on each sleeve (see below) From www.leginfo.ca.gov:
B&P7582.26(i) No private patrol operator licensee or officer, director, partner, or manager of a private patrol operator licensee, or person required to be registered as a security guard pursuant to this chapter shall use or wear a baton or exposed firearm as authorized by this chapter unless he or she is wearing a uniform which complies with the requirements of Section 7582.27.From www.leginfo.ca.gov:
B&P7582.27(a) Any person referred to in subdivision (i) of Section 7582.26 who uses or wears a baton or exposed firearm as authorized pursuant to this chapter shall wear a patch on each arm that reads "private security" and that includes the name of the company by which the person is employed or for which the person is a representative. The patch shall be clearly visible at all times. The patches of a private patrol operator licensee, or his or her employees or representatives shall be of a standard design approved by the director.
(b) The director may assess a fine of two hundred fifty dollars ($250) per violation of subdivision (a).
So even if there wasn't a penal code violation there may still be a B&P violation (which is only punishable by an administrative fine or possible revocation of guard card).

Also worthy of note; an unemployed security officer with an exposed firearms permit appears to have no right to carry an exposed loaded weapon, since the exceptions granted are only for to/from/during work and to/from/during employer required range training.

Sorry to go a bit off topic; just didn't want any security officers with firearm permits to get the wrong idea from the quoted comment at the top.

Mssr. Elegantť
11-16-2009, 11:55 PM
Police got added to the "non-civilian" category in some dictionaries starting in the 1980's. Firemen have even been included recently in a few dictionaries. So "non-civilian" went from "military" to "police and military" and then to "police, firemen and military." Pretty soon they will probably add bus drivers to the dictionary definition, since the trend is going toward "anybody who works for a government agency, wears a uniform and has a dangerous job."

Calling the police "non-civilian" is more appropriate in countries where all law enforcement personnel are under the head of state. If you are a police officer and you wear the initials of your Queen on your helmet, like in the UK, then I guess you are not a civilian.

http://www.collectors-badges.com/images/Badges%20Hats/helmet_british_west_midlands_police.jpg

But if you are a police officer in the United States, then you are definitely a civilian. There's nothing wrong with that. There is nothing to be ashamed of. You're a cop and you're a civilian. You still have authority, but it is civilian authority and not military authority. It's the American way. If you don't like it, move to England. There you can become a cop, stick an "Elizabeth II Regina" badge on your helmet, and finally be a non-civilian.

Mayhem
11-17-2009, 12:38 AM
Jeffb502

Some of those exceptions are probably also due to the changes made by BSIS to the LOC permit. When it was BCIS you only renewed and qualified once per year for your Permit. shortly after BCIS became BSIS security officers are required to renew once every 2 years (same as their guard card) but are required to qualify once every 6 months.

Typically Security officers get allot of leeway with Law Enforcement unless they are doing something stupid. but this doesn't always hold true even for LEOs.

I got a seat belt violation (back when it was a $25 dollar non-moving violation that did not take a point) by a CHP going to work with my duty belt on without my seat belt. The exceptions to the seat belt law did not cover me in my POV to and from work. This was back around the time Sac PD Sac SO CHP SPD and SJSO all had a little cross department rivalry going on. The CHP that nailed me had gotten nailed a weak before in his pov on the way to work for a FIx-it by a Sac SO officer.

nick
11-17-2009, 12:45 AM
Or maybe the cop was in the "military reserve", as well :)

gat
11-17-2009, 4:22 AM
What's the correct response if you've got (legally possessed and stored) firearms in your trunk? Obviously you shouldn't lie to the police, but he can't search your trunk without cause, and asking if you have anything of interest in your trunk seems like an invitation to search it if you answer "yes".

lavgrunt
11-17-2009, 4:40 AM
......I'm always a little leary when I hear any story start with, "This happened to a friend of mine......"

RomanDad
11-17-2009, 7:16 AM
Or maybe the cop was in the "military reserve", as well :)

Thats what I was thinking.

GrizzlyGuy
11-17-2009, 7:32 AM
What's the correct response if you've got (legally possessed and stored) firearms in your trunk? Obviously you shouldn't lie to the police, but he can't search your trunk without cause, and asking if you have anything of interest in your trunk seems like an invitation to search it if you answer "yes".

From a legal standpoint, the safest way to handle police questioning is to not answer their questions at all. You could remain completely silent, but saying something like this will likely make the encounter go better: 'Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job, and I respect that. By law I'm not required to answer any of your questions, and I'm not going to, and I hope that you respect that as well'.

These two videos explain why answering questions is virtually always a bad idea:

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE)

And of course, never-ever consent to a search.

Decoligny
11-17-2009, 8:29 AM
Umm Comparing reserve military to Law enforcement is like comparing apples to oranges. bout the only thing they have in common is they both tell time the same way.

BSIS is the department in consumer affairs that regulates private security officers. So the "One of us" comment was a compliment as most LEO's look down on security guards as the lowest form of wanta be's. Even more so then the way Active military looks down on the National Guard/Reserves/and Militia as weekend warriors- Yes California has an official state militia.

If the LEO wanted to be a jerk he could pushed The limits of the BSIS LOC permit as well as other permits and "Gear". Unless you as a licensed security officer are on the job or going to and from your job in the course of regular employment your are under the same firearms and weapons restrictions as every one else. In fact its is The Baton that actually gets people in trouble the most as possession alone is a felony unless licensed to carry it and either on the job or to and from the job. Just having it in your car when driving around town and going grocery shopping can get you in trouble unless you have a darn good reason (remember you use it to prop up the hood of your car 8) ) The "gear" statement alone would have given him Legal probable cause to Inspect the "Gear" as well as the permits, and if not carried in the method described by the law could have cited or even arrested the subject. Your employer can also be contacted to see if you where really going to and from the job.

So there really is no reason to get offended. It was more of a compliment then anything else. The only reason one would have grounds to get offended is the above mentioned "Us Vs them" mentality.

Not necessarily. If the OPs friend didn't mention "I am in the Reserves, and I am a Security Guard also, and have my gear, and my firearm, in the back" then the cop has no legal grounds to look in the trunk. If he mentions a firearm, then the cop can legally demand to do a 12031e check but that is it.

If the cop asks someone "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" and they answer "I have my gear in the trunk", then the cop can ask "What kind of gear?". If the answer is "I have my competitive fencing gear in the trunk", or "I have a dozen crossbows in the trunk" then the cop has no legal reason to inspect anything, or ask for any permits.

The OPs friend needs to learn the phrase, "I have nothing illegal in my vehicle officer."

chuckdc
11-17-2009, 12:56 PM
+1

I'm a fireman and one time i got pulled over for speeding (barely) in FULL UNIFORM with all my gear in the car by CHP. Did i get that kind of respect? no, i got a ticket.

Back when I was doing my EMT training, a classmate was doing their field hours and the ambulance they were riding in was pulled over. Despite the red lights being on and flashing and the poor slob in the back having the heart attack.
Rookie cop was going on about that they didnt have their siren on (note that that sound kinda distresses those heart attack patients..)
He actually wanted to ticket an ambulance on an active call.

I usually have no problems with cops, but there are some real Einsteins out there at times. Had a Fresno PD Lt. try to tell me I couldn't walk my dog along an open public sidewalk because of an event going on, that DIDNT EVEN HAVE "NO PETS" SIGNS! My brother (Fed agent...) had some words with the Lt. involving things such as civil rights and the like, after which he shut his overlarge pie-hole.

I also know some guys out there wearing a badge that are the salt of the earth, and have made great sacrifices because of their profession. It's too bad that the occasional nitwit messes things up.

Mayhem
11-17-2009, 4:03 PM
Back when I was doing my EMT training, a classmate was doing their field hours and the ambulance they were riding in was pulled over. Despite the red lights being on and flashing and the poor slob in the back having the heart attack.
Rookie cop was going on about that they didnt have their siren on (note that that sound kinda distresses those heart attack patients..)
He actually wanted to ticket an ambulance on an active call.

I usually have no problems with cops, but there are some real Einsteins out there at times. Had a Fresno PD Lt. try to tell me I couldn't walk my dog along an open public sidewalk because of an event going on, that DIDNT EVEN HAVE "NO PETS" SIGNS! My brother (Fed agent...) had some words with the Lt. involving things such as civil rights and the like, after which he shut his overlarge pie-hole.

I also know some guys out there wearing a badge that are the salt of the earth, and have made great sacrifices because of their profession. It's too bad that the occasional nitwit messes things up.

Umm your not required to have sirens flashers wig/wags blue lights or anything more then a single solid forward red light to run code in california that goes for Cops Cars, Fire Trucks, Ambulances and any other Emergency services vehicle, they teach that in the academy and it's in the CVC.

SgtDinosaur
11-17-2009, 4:23 PM
Umm...I'm not really sure what the officer meant. At one time I was concerned that our police forces were becoming overly militarized, but I haven't noticed that as much lately. Plenty of cops are veterans or reservists, many have done tours in SWA. I got stopped recently for speeding and the officer noticed a small National Defense Service Medal sticker on my bumper. He asked me about it and then thanked me for my service and let me off with a warning. I thought he was a nice guy. That worked so well that I put my Vietnam Veterans of America decal right above it.

Sniper3142
11-17-2009, 7:05 PM
It's better if my friend is invisible and never gets stopped. That's not my point. I understand the cop has a gun, can take you off to jail if you sneeze wrong, etc.



You mean he can try to take you to jail if you sneeze wrong.


;)

Cokebottle
11-17-2009, 7:32 PM
You mean he can try to take you to jail if you sneeze wrong.;)
Oh... they CAN take you and hold you for a while without pressing charges.

If you play it right and sneeze often enough, you can live rent-free ;)

pTa
11-18-2009, 10:24 AM
I consider all uniformed personnel as workers for the common good...
I wouldn't have been offended.

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 11:53 AM
Over a period of 2 weeks several years ago I was stopped twice by the same cop for speeding. First for 85 in a 50 & then 90 in a 55.

Both times I was told "slow the f*** down & take it easy"..... altho there was a bit more conversation the second time which basically consisted of the Officer questioning my ability to understand what he told me the first time....

Should I be irritated? hell no! :) wooHOO!

I should point out that there was absolutely NO other traffic around either time & I wasn't endangering any life but my own.

Usually NOT a good thing when a cop greets you with "so, we meet again" tho ;)

pullnshoot25
11-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Umm your not required to have sirens flashers wig/wags blue lights or anything more then a single solid forward red light to run code in california that goes for Cops Cars, Fire Trucks, Ambulances and any other Emergency services vehicle, they teach that in the academy and it's in the CVC.

Another example of basic laws...

I consider all uniformed personnel as workers for the common good...
I wouldn't have been offended.

Really? REALLY? Have you even read ONE PAGE of a history book?

Over a period of 2 weeks several years ago I was stopped twice by the same cop for speeding. First for 85 in a 50 & then 90 in a 55.

Both times I was told "slow the f*** down & take it easy"..... altho there was a bit more conversation the second time which basically consisted of the Officer questioning my ability to understand what he told me the first time....

Should I be irritated? hell no! :) wooHOO!

I should point out that there was absolutely NO other traffic around either time & I wasn't endangering any life but my own.

Usually NOT a good thing when a cop greets you with "so, we meet again" tho ;)

That happened to me twice in one night. Total rookie.

tuolumnejim
11-18-2009, 1:09 PM
Whenever a cop pulls you over and says "oh, well, in that case have a good day" for whatever reason you have no right to be irritated, you should be counting your blessings.

I'm sure thats what a lot of Jew's did right before the roundups for the showers too.

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 1:18 PM
That happened to me twice in one night. Total rookie.

Next time I'll try harder :)

Did get a Performance Award from the CHP a couple of weeks back tho..

Parting comment as I held up the ticket "This is good for the whole day, right?"

ZRX61
11-18-2009, 1:20 PM
I consider all uniformed personnel as workers for the common good...
I wouldn't have been offended.

That line didn't go over very well at Nuremburg.. ;)