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View Full Version : Is it bad etiquette?


doodoostain
11-15-2009, 9:30 PM
I am a member of the firing line in Burbank and remembered reading about the suicide a few weeks ago here. I was there tonight and I asked about it and got really curt and sarcastic answers. Is it bad etiquette to inquire about something like that at the range?

joelogic
11-15-2009, 9:38 PM
What business wants to talk about what might close down their business? Something like that happened at my local range and now you cant rent a gun if you are alone or you dont bring one of your own.

CSACANNONEER
11-15-2009, 9:39 PM
I am a member of the firing line in Burbank and remembered reading about the suicide a few weeks ago here. I was there tonight and I asked about it and got really curt and sarcastic answers. Is it bad etiquette to inquire about something like that at the range?

I used to get questioned about similar happenings at the range I worked at. First of all, if you happen to ask an employee who was there, he or she might be having problems dealing with it. Secondly, if it is any of your bussiness, you should already know about it. If it's not any of your bussiness, please respect show some respect for the family of the "victim" and don't talk about it. That said, I never spoke of specifics of any incident with any customers. Personally, I never had a problem with these things happening other than being upset at the selfish people who think that its OK to shut someone's bussiness down for hours or even all day and make them pay for the clean up too.

chickenfried
11-15-2009, 9:41 PM
well you knew it happened. What'd you want them to do, make small talk about it :confused:

doodoostain
11-15-2009, 9:48 PM
I guess looking back, there really wasn't much for them to say. I guess from my perspective, I was a little freaked out by it. I just got into shooting about a month ago and my wife and I went that evening apparently after they re-opened. It just felt strange that everyone acted like nothing happened. Just a word of assurance that the place wasn't dangerous or that it wasn't common . . . to put my wife a bit at ease, would've helped. But I guess that's not really their job.

CSACANNONEER
11-15-2009, 9:53 PM
I guess looking back, there really wasn't much for them to say. I guess from my perspective, I was a little freaked out by it. I just got into shooting about a month ago and my wife and I went that evening apparently after they re-opened. It just felt strange that everyone acted like nothing happened. Just a word of assurance that the place wasn't dangerous or that it wasn't common . . . to put my wife a bit at ease, would've helped. But I guess that's not really their job.

Let your wife know that it is probably safer inside the range than on any street in the greater LA area. Yes, there will always be a few selfish and thoughtless people who decide to use someone else's bussiness as a place to kill themselves but, I've never heard of anyone killing another person at a range. I'm sure it has happened but, it's got to be a lot less common than getting hit by a car while walking down the sidewalk.

SNEAKS
11-15-2009, 9:53 PM
My guess is it depends on how well the store knows you and how the subject gets brought up. There are 2 ranges I go to regularly (now one, Agoura range is closed) and both had its suicides problems. I usually just told them I heard what had happened and was sorry to hear of it. If the conversation went past that then it went past that. I think it is rude however to do digging for details of such things.

bballwizard05
11-15-2009, 9:57 PM
Humans are curious by nature, no need to pounce on the OP for him asking about it. The firing line probably shouldn't have been sarcastic either. They dont have to answer the questions, but there is always a tactful way to go about this. I dont know how the OP posed the question, so that may have bearing on it too. There is nothing wrong with asking and question tactfully and there is also nothing wrong with tactfully declining to answer or talk about something.

doodoostain
11-15-2009, 9:59 PM
yeah, come to think of it, i probably didn't approach the situation properly. i guess i'll apologize next time i'm in there. thanks for the advise guys. i guess i didn't really think it through before inquiring.

CSACANNONEER
11-15-2009, 10:03 PM
My guess is it depends on how well the store knows you and how the subject gets brought up. There are 2 ranges I go to regularly (now one, Agoura range is closed) and both had its suicides problems. I usually just told them I heard what had happened and was sorry to hear of it. If the conversation went past that then it went past that. I think it is rude however to do digging for details of such things.

I don't think Agoura or any other range can be blamed for a customers (even though they always died before they paid - the cheap bastards!) actions. It is an underlying problem in any bussiness which rents firearms. BTW, I really think that there was one employee at Agoura who will never be the same after he witnessed someone swallow a gun.

As far as being totally rude goes, once, while I was working at the Agoura range, I recieved a phone call where the caller started off by saying that he had heard that someone had blown their head off there and wanted me to confirm it. Since I don't believe that anyone has ever completely blown their head OFF there, I told him it was not true though.

Cardinal Sin
11-15-2009, 10:06 PM
Questions regarding events that have occurred at a business are best asked discreetly and not within earshot of others at a business. Most people would not walk into a restaurant and say aloud "I read in the paper you had a rat problem." It is generally not good form to do so. In the end a business may not choose to talk about an event or limit their response for a variety reasons. There is a time a place for everything. It just sounds like it may not have been the appropriate time to ask the staff.

SNEAKS
11-15-2009, 10:33 PM
I don't think Agoura or any other range can be blamed for a customers (even though they always died before they paid - the cheap bastards!) actions. It is an underlying problem in any bussiness which rents firearms. BTW, I really think that there was one employee at Agoura who will never be the same after he witnessed someone swallow a gun.

As far as being totally rude goes, once, while I was working at the Agoura range, I recieved a phone call where the caller started off by saying that he had heard that someone had blown their head off there and wanted me to confirm it. Since I don't believe that anyone has ever completely blown their head OFF there, I told him it was not true though.

I am not in any way blaming the range for the suicides. I think that it is a selfish act and sucks that the person drags a business and its employees into their life problems. Like you said that employee will never be the same and thats not right for anyone to do to another person who is just doing their daily work and trying to make a paycheck.

As for the person who called and started asking questions like that, it sadly seems to fit in with the mind set of most of the jack***** people in this area.

On a side note Damn I miss the Agoura range. That place was great.

bwiese
11-15-2009, 11:27 PM
The response may well have been curt and discourteous due to legal reasons.

Maybe they thought you were a troll working for an attorney working for the family/estate trying to show the range culpability?

Hell, in the immediate aftermath of such an unfortunate situation, if I were a range owner/staffer, I'd at best tell you "read the newspaper" and depending on how I felt about the nature of your questions, I might even boot your arse off the range.

Cokebottle
11-15-2009, 11:33 PM
well you knew it happened. What'd you want them to do, make small talk about it :confused:
Agreed.
If you are on a first name basis with any of the employees, simple condolences would have been sufficient, nothing more. They need to put it behind them.

BunnySlayer
11-16-2009, 7:36 AM
Personally I think if your asking out of morbid curiosity it would be bad form. Still no reason to be sarcastic and rude. If your asking from a standpoint of your own safety and that of others the question is valid and needs to be anwered. When someone points a gun at their own head, even though your not directly threatened it's still not pointed downrange. Bulletts penetrate even bone and brain as we all know. Suicidal amatuers may not be aware or they may not even care.

Rob454
11-16-2009, 7:11 PM
Linda morbid and goulish if you ask me. I personally dont ask anything. Not my business.

randy
11-18-2009, 1:16 AM
I'm good friends with a couple of the BFL guys and I don't ask. Having been in their situation before it's best not to ask.

BunnySlayer
11-23-2009, 7:17 AM
:threadjacked:
Warning! Warning! Thread about to be hijacked!
Rob454,
I have a problem with your avatar!! It's too damn small to see her or the gun....mostly her but still!!!

Hijack over, please resume your normal programming

4X4Guns
11-25-2009, 8:19 PM
Humans are curious by nature, no need to pounce on the OP for him asking about it. The firing line probably shouldn't have been sarcastic either. They dont have to answer the questions, but there is always a tactful way to go about this. I dont know how the OP posed the question, so that may have bearing on it too. There is nothing wrong with asking and question tactfully and there is also nothing wrong with tactfully declining to answer or talk about something.


I could not have said it better.

U2BassAce
12-02-2009, 5:34 PM
The response may well have been curt and discourteous due to legal reasons.

Maybe they thought you were a troll working for an attorney working for the family/estate trying to show the range culpability?

Hell, in the immediate aftermath of such an unfortunate situation, if I were a range owner/staffer, I'd at best tell you "read the newspaper" and depending on how I felt about the nature of your questions, I might even boot your arse off the range.

As a business owner my thoughts exactly.

NiteQwill
12-02-2009, 8:29 PM
Why can't the business be honest?

As a skydiver who has traveled around the world to jump from numerous things, it is not uncommon for me to ask, "How many deaths have occurred here? How many injuries? What are you guys doing to make it safer?" It doesn't stop me from going but it creates a lesson that I can share with myself, mentally, and with others.

The same goes with shooting at a range. Ranges are inherently dangerous, you don't know who is in the booth next to you.

I think any business should be able to answer those questions truthfully and honestly. Those two values always bring me, as a customer, back.

Bill Carson
12-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Does the Firing Line in Burbank have a giant sign that reads no firearm rentals to single shooters ? They do in Huntington Beach but they keep renting guns to single shooters and they keep having suicides.

Cokebottle
12-02-2009, 10:22 PM
and they keep having suicides.
That's a pretty bold statement.
Yes, "one" is too many, but "keep having" implies that this is a regular occurrence.

How many has HB had? Burbank? etc...?

Bill Carson
12-06-2009, 6:32 AM
sorry my post was worded poorly. There was a suicide in nov/dec of 2001 or early 2002 and in dec of 2008 (both of the suicides went in and empty handed and rented a gun). when a friend and I went shooting there in oct of 2001 we asked why they did not rent to guns to single persons who did not already have a handgun with them.( that was posted on a huge sign) employee working there stated the reason was so that they would not have anymore suicides there. The point I was trying to make is that this place has a huge sign regarding their policy and they still do not follow it. I will never shoot at the HB firing line ever again.

Seesm
12-06-2009, 10:59 AM
Rules are there for a reason and if they say they do not rent to single shooter... Well they should NOT rent to single shooters.

Bummer they do not follow there own rules.

The whole idea of going to a firing range and killing yourself is so selfish and terrible on many levels.

If you wanted to go do a suicide like do it were nobody has to find you or deal with your mess you left behind. Just my 2 cents worth.

bear308
12-07-2009, 11:55 AM
sorry my post was worded poorly. There was a suicide in nov/dec of 2001 or early 2002 and in dec of 2008 (both of the suicides went in and empty handed and rented a gun). when a friend and I went shooting there in oct of 2001 we asked why they did not rent to guns to single persons who did not already have a handgun with them.( that was posted on a huge sign) employee working there stated the reason was so that they would not have anymore suicides there. The point I was trying to make is that this place has a huge sign regarding their policy and they still do not follow it. I will never shoot at the HB firing line ever again.

Where in this thread or another did you see that we rented a gun to a sole individual?

Bill Carson
12-09-2009, 6:35 PM
Did not see that written in this thread. I was not discussing the Burbank location, I was referring to the HB location. Yes they have in the past rented guns to single shooters who did not enter with a gun and as a result of that they have had sucides on their property. Sorry, I thought I was clear in my previous post (#22) that I was referring to The HB location.

bear308
12-09-2009, 7:30 PM
Oh HB

Bill Carson
12-09-2009, 8:35 PM
I apologize for any confusion my post may have created.

Anothercoilgun
01-17-2010, 6:16 PM
I am a member of the firing line in Burbank and remembered reading about the suicide a few weeks ago here. I was there tonight and I asked about it and got really curt and sarcastic answers. Is it bad etiquette to inquire about something like that at the range?

Its called an informed decision. If you are a paying customer you have every right to ask. Would you frequent a range that gets 12 suicides a year? Case closed.