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View Full Version : Gun banner's next target: "big boomers"


Jarhead05
11-14-2009, 4:25 AM
The anti-gun Violence Policy Center is out with another "Study" highlighting the next threat to public safety... and the next target for gun banners: Big Boomers," handguns designed to take rifle-caliber cartridges that can penetrate Kevlar vests.

From the summary:

"Big boomers are rifle power designed into handguns. During the 1990 to 1999 period, 20 law enforcement officers were killed by gunshot wounds aa\s a result of rounds penetrating their body armor. All of these rounds were fired from rifles. However, the big boomer handguns that are now being designed and marketed by the firearms industry have elevated the power of handguns to the level of rifles. Big boomers have thus become "vest busters" and present a deadly challenge to law enforcement body armor's life-saving record."

Read the entire 40-page "report" at: http://www.vpc.org/studies/bigboomers.pdf

Cali-Shooter
11-14-2009, 5:38 AM
Another anti-Five Seven article, as well as bashing the "criminality" of the S&W .500. I can't believe the sheer ignorance of that article.

tktech
11-14-2009, 6:02 AM
Dont forget the .460 s&w. Not that most gang bangers could manage a .500 or .460 handgun but anything is possible when it comes to antigun movement. Anything as long as it supports there agenda that is.

five.five-six
11-14-2009, 6:19 AM
I have an anaconda, does that count?

yellowfin
11-14-2009, 6:33 AM
They need to study some other banging...i.e. get laid.

B Strong
11-14-2009, 6:45 AM
The consolation is that more people read High Times magazine than read VPC propaganda.

Cali-Shooter
11-14-2009, 6:45 AM
I don't really like the Five-seveN, and it's too expensive and impractical for me, but I'll be damned if the antis add another legitimate firearm to their ban list.

Casey
11-14-2009, 6:48 AM
I can't wait for the general media to pick up on the new catch phrase " Big Boomers".
I love this part:
During the 1990 to 1999 period, 20 law enforcement officers were killed by gunshot wounds aa\s a result of rounds penetrating their body armor. All of these rounds were fired from rifles.

... so lets ban handguns.

SJgunguy24
11-14-2009, 7:42 AM
Wow 20 LEO's in a 10 year span.....I'm never going to make light of a Police Officers death. BUT COME ON!!!!!!!!
For Crying out loud, how many cops were killed during traffic stops by inattentive drivers?
OK lets ban traffic stops so no LEO's can be hurt or killed needlessly while performing those evil traffic stops.:rolleyes:



A big boomer AFAK is a mexican food and draft beer fart that clears a room during a rain storm.

Cali-Shooter
11-14-2009, 7:52 AM
The label of a "big boomer" has got to the be THE most ridiculous anti term for a firearm I've ever heard of.

Larua
11-14-2009, 8:04 AM
After almost 7 years, the best the VPC can come up with is 2 no-injury criminal cases involving the .500S&W?

Whoever wrote that article either

1. doesn't understand ballistics,
2. is trying to cherrypick and parse their way to a predetermined conclusion, or
3. all of the above.

"The largest .500 Smith & Wesson round strikes with greater kinetic energy at 15 feet than a 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester) rifle round fired at 50 feet.

Nothing like an apple-to-apple comparison...

Suvorov
11-14-2009, 8:12 AM
I have never heard of a "Big Boomer" until now.

Where do these idiots come up with this stuff :confused:

RobG
11-14-2009, 8:58 AM
"Big Boomer" is what I used to call my daughters diaper when it was "loaded." Yea, I would be all for a ban of "Big Boomers.":rofl2:

Kid Stanislaus
11-14-2009, 9:58 AM
The label of a "big boomer" has got to the be THE most ridiculous anti term for a firearm I've ever heard of.

Yeah, its right up there with BIG BOOBSER!

BigDogatPlay
11-14-2009, 10:09 AM
So rifle fire can defeat LEO body armor... there's a news flash. Something I knew the day I put my first vest on to go to work. Little tag that said "Warning, may not be effective against rifle fire."

I wonder if the VPC drilled into the numbers at all to see how many of the instances were SWAT cops? I can think of two right of the bat... Oakland, March of this year. That's ten percent of their number right there. I know there have been others over the past few years. While it by no means lessens the tragedy of officers losing their lives in the line of duty it makes a clear distinction.

For each instance such as SFPD Officer Isaac Espinoza, who was shot by a banger on a ped stop who had an AK type weapon concealed then turned and fired, you have several instances of SWAT guys who had to try and take an armed guy in a prepared position. Two very different sets of circumstances.

But, as noted previously, when the VPC says that the solution is to ban handguns that fire rifle rounds, it makes the case very clearly as to what they really want... and how very little they really know.

phamkl
11-14-2009, 11:02 AM
They have these cute little phrases like, "cop killer." Now they've got "big boomer" and "vest bursters" put in quotations as if these terms were in wide use and circulation. Doesn't seem like one should be able to coin these terms specifically for a "study" like this... It's disingenuous.

Quser.619
11-14-2009, 11:09 AM
Of course they'll completely ignore that more LEO's are killed in car accidents than all combined shootings, but then again given this state's propensity to regulate emissions, carob output they may very well be addressing that as well.

ErikTheRed
11-14-2009, 11:16 AM
All my handguns are either "medium poppers" or "little piffers". I even have one "sorta large-ish banger", but I don't have any "big boomers" so I guess I'm off the hook for now.

This stuff is just getting downright DUMB.

spyderco monkey
11-14-2009, 12:17 PM
Wow, epic fail- the picture they have on the front of the PDF is almost all conventional handguns in the 9mm and .45 range.

Cpl. Haas
11-14-2009, 12:20 PM
Hmmm... let's look at the complete picture here:

Between 1990 and 1999, 20 officers were killed by rifles...

In that period, 1,655 officers were killed in the line of duty...

Of those fallen officers, 690 officers were killed by gunfire (including accidental)...

Which means 670 officers were shot and killed by guns that were not firing rifle rounds...

Yeah... banning "big boomers" makes perfect sense... :rolleyes:

BTW, above data was from odmp.org

spyderco monkey
11-14-2009, 12:29 PM
Wow, just started to read the PDF- pretty hillarious.

Innovation. The industry’s principal avenue of addressing its stagnant markets, however, has been developing innovative gun designs aimed at stimulating repeat purchases of its products.

Oh no! American companies are actually, gasp! being innovative! Think of the children.

More highlights to follow

Cokebottle
11-14-2009, 12:47 PM
Wow, epic fail- the picture they have on the front of the PDF is almost all conventional handguns in the 9mm and .45 range.
Guilt by association.

Joe Uneducated Public sees the picture, read the article, then goes to the sporting goods store and sees all of the guns that he saw on the picture, including a $300 cheapie 9mm, and assumes that "big boomers" are commonplace and cheap.

Same with "black" rifles.
People that have never seen an AK47, when shown a wood-stock AK47 with evil features and a featureless AR15 and asked to point out the "assault rifle" will point to the black one 9 times out of 10.

spyderco monkey
11-14-2009, 12:52 PM
So, finished the article. Other than the new buzzword "big boomer," nothing really to worry about.

The beginning of the article was simply trashtalking the "stagnant" gun industry and its "insidious" marketing practices.

Then they railed against the 500s&w, which suprised me- I figured not even the VPC worried about revolvers, especially ones that weigh 3-5lbs.

Then, for the 5.7, it mostly harped on the fact that the restricted, AP, SS190 round "is out there" ie it exists, and therefore the gun is far too "potent" to be trusted in the hands of "civilians." It then alluded that that the civilian SS197 and SS195 may also be "vestbusters," but that more "independent" testing is needed.

The articles final conclusion was that any round capable of defeating body armor should be restricted....

burl broderick
11-14-2009, 12:58 PM
.

Well, at least the "report" isn't biased, or anything.

I had no idea I owned a "bullet hose" (semi-auto rifle - May 2003) :83:

Funny, until reading through that "analysis", I never really wanted to own
a .500 or a 5.7. Now ???.... Hmmmmm...

:17:

.

phamkl
11-14-2009, 12:58 PM
In order to expand its customer base, the gun industry has tried to lure
women and children into the “shooting sports.”

LOL!

Women and children shooting???? What has this world gone to???? Only MAN should be shooting BIG GUN.

This report has taken on a very irresponsible and sexist tone for me. Children should be taught safety lessons from the start. I'm not only talking about guns but other such things in life that might be dangerous. You know. Like a fork. I also want my kids to be helping me with household and automotive repairs so they're not so useless as most of today's youth but I have a feeling the VPC types would frown on that too.

spyderco monkey
11-14-2009, 1:17 PM
LOL!

Women and children shooting???? What has this world gone to????

I know. Next they'll be dancing!

Meplat
11-14-2009, 1:35 PM
I still submit that I can load any handgun cartridge that is suitable for self defense to penetrate the vests most LE wear. Can't breach the chicken plates, but anything less.

I just wish those who actually know something about guns and ballistics, would step back and realize they are being fed the same sort of BS on global warming and delta smelt.

Meplat
11-14-2009, 1:44 PM
But, as noted previously, when the VPC says that the solution is to ban handguns that fire rifle rounds, it makes the case very clearly as to what they really want... and how very little they really know.

OR how stupid thy think their audience really is.

bigcalidave
11-14-2009, 1:53 PM
"shooting sports" in quotes like it's fake?

OK really quick, some firearms manufacturer needs to rename a line of guns "Big Boomers!" Maybe SW could do a .500sw BIG BOOMER edition.

yakmon
11-14-2009, 3:23 PM
Are they talking about T/C contender pistols? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

hill billy
11-14-2009, 3:25 PM
That report has been around for a while and has gone nowhere. I'm not worried just yet.

spyderco monkey
11-14-2009, 3:40 PM
When was it released?

jumbopanda
11-14-2009, 3:46 PM
"shooting sports" in quotes like it's fake?

OK really quick, some firearms manufacturer needs to rename a line of guns "Big Boomers!" Maybe SW could do a .500sw BIG BOOMER edition.

It would go well with the "Bear Survival Kit"

Cali-Shooter
11-14-2009, 3:57 PM
So, finished the article. Other than the new buzzword "big boomer," nothing really to worry about.

The beginning of the article was simply trashtalking the "stagnant" gun industry and its "insidious" marketing practices.

Then they railed against the 500s&w, which suprised me- I figured not even the VPC worried about revolvers, especially ones that weigh 3-5lbs.

Then, for the 5.7, it mostly harped on the fact that the restricted, AP, SS190 round "is out there" ie it exists, and therefore the gun is far too "potent" to be trusted in the hands of "civilians." It then alluded that that the civilian SS197 and SS195 may also be "vestbusters," but that more "independent" testing is needed.

The articles final conclusion was that any round capable of defeating body armor should be restricted....

+1. Good summary.

.

Well, at least the "report" isn't biased, or anything.

I had no idea I owned a "bullet hose" (semi-auto rifle - May 2003) :83:

Funny, until reading through that "analysis", I never really wanted to own
a .500 or a 5.7. Now ???.... Hmmmmm...

:17:

.

Haha, theres something about when ppl try to have things outlawed, it makes you want to have them even more... :43:

Roadrunner
11-14-2009, 4:08 PM
I wonder how law enforcement fells about being used as a propaganda tool. Quite frankly, I'd be pissed.

hill billy
11-14-2009, 4:53 PM
Dec of 08 and was posted here sometime in Jan I believe.

yellowfin
11-14-2009, 4:54 PM
I wonder how law enforcement fells about being used as a propaganda tool. Quite frankly, I'd be pissed.I've never seen a department complain. More aggrevatingly, I've never seen one take the NYPD, NJ state police, SFPD, Chicago PD, et al. to task publicly.

Meplat
11-14-2009, 4:55 PM
A decade ago I was arguing with some idiot on-line about haw dangerous it was to be a game warden. The other fellow thought it must be extremely risky because most of their contacts are armed. I e-mailed the DFG or equivalent of every state and asked if they had had any wardens killed in the line of duty. I received replies from 39 of 50 states. There were a few auto accidents and one or two heart attacks, but none by violence in living memory of the personnel the public information officers of the various departments queried. I did not receive a reply from Nevada. But I know they lost two wardens a few decades ago to an incident involving a man named Claud Dallas. The whole incident was rather odd and it was actually found by a jury that Dallas fired in self defense. The incident can possibly be better understood by reading a book titled "Death in the desert".



Of course they'll completely ignore that more LEO's are killed in car accidents than all combined shootings, but then again given this state's propensity to regulate emissions, carob output they may very well be addressing that as well.

grunz
11-14-2009, 7:41 PM
Its hilarious that they use the example of a FELON illegally OWNING and illegal CCWing a SW500 under his bathrobe in a restaurant as an example of why making another type of gun illegal would help cut crime...

WOW!

KylaGWolf
11-14-2009, 8:40 PM
So rifle fire can defeat LEO body armor... there's a news flash. Something I knew the day I put my first vest on to go to work. Little tag that said "Warning, may not be effective against rifle fire."

I wonder if the VPC drilled into the numbers at all to see how many of the instances were SWAT cops? I can think of two right of the bat... Oakland, March of this year. That's ten percent of their number right there. I know there have been others over the past few years. While it by no means lessens the tragedy of officers losing their lives in the line of duty it makes a clear distinction.

For each instance such as SFPD Officer Isaac Espinoza, who was shot by a banger on a ped stop who had an AK type weapon concealed then turned and fired, you have several instances of SWAT guys who had to try and take an armed guy in a prepared position. Two very different sets of circumstances.

But, as noted previously, when the VPC says that the solution is to ban handguns that fire rifle rounds, it makes the case very clearly as to what they really want... and how very little they really know.

I can almost bet a couple more happened at the bank robbery in LA where the bad guys were better armed than the good guys.

KylaGWolf
11-14-2009, 8:45 PM
Then, for the 5.7, it mostly harped on the fact that the restricted, AP, SS190 round "is out there" ie it exists, and therefore the gun is far too "potent" to be trusted in the hands of "civilians." It then alluded that that the civilian SS197 and SS195 may also be "vestbusters," but that more "independent" testing is needed.

The articles final conclusion was that any round capable of defeating body armor should be restricted....

You know this part of your post got me thinking when I went looking for a gun back in April. I had looked at a 5.7 and was told at a gun shop you don't want that its too powerful and can do x,y,z damage and go through armor. This was at a gun store. So it goes to show even the gun stores are full of fud.

yellowfin
11-14-2009, 8:46 PM
I wonder how many people have been killed by anti gun activists by such means as car accidents, kids drowning in their pools or having other household accidents, sending relatives to bad doctors, giving the wrong food to people with food allergies or diabetes, and even homicides. I'll bet they have killed more people than rifle caliber pistols have.

oaklander
11-14-2009, 8:51 PM
Geez, wait until they learn about AK pistols and AR pistols. Ooops, it's too late. . .

:p

http://i36.tinypic.com/2eyi4pv.jpg

Cokebottle
11-14-2009, 8:52 PM
its too powerful
Only a little larger than a .22 and less powder than a .45acp?

Sure, it's fast, but too powerful?

Cokebottle
11-14-2009, 8:54 PM
I wonder how many people have been killed by anti gun activists by such means as car accidents, kids drowning in their pools or having other household accidents, sending relatives to bad doctors, giving the wrong food to people with food allergies or diabetes, and even homicides. I'll bet they have killed more people than rifle caliber pistols have.
Gun control advocates kill people using guns all the time.

SixPointEight
11-14-2009, 8:58 PM
Who comes up with these evil-yet-retarded sounding terms? "Big Boomers" "Vest Busters"...These guys need to get their "fireman" played with

7x57
11-14-2009, 10:15 PM
During the 1990 to 1999 period, 20 law enforcement officers were killed by gunshot wounds aa\s a result of rounds penetrating their body armor. All of these rounds were fired from rifles.

... so lets ban handguns.

Wow. Two per year. Terror reigns on the streets.... :rolleyes:

7x57

kf6tac
11-14-2009, 10:35 PM
Geez. I've already been wanting a Five-Seven, but all this (false) hubbub about it lately has just caused my desire to get one to surge even more.

umoja
11-15-2009, 12:12 AM
I can almost bet a couple more happened at the bank robbery in LA where the bad guys were better armed than the good guys.

Are you referring to the one that occurred in North Hollywood at the Bank of America?

If so, I believe the only two people who died were the robbers themselves.

bigcalidave
11-15-2009, 3:26 AM
Ew, ok the "big boomers" moniker came from "shooting industry"

So it's an inside job..
“Big Boomers: Profit From the Muscle Cars of Handguns,” Shooting Industry, May
2005, downloaded from http://www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/Ftr0505a.html on
August 2, 2005.

Link doesn't work.

socal2310
11-15-2009, 7:12 AM
Are you referring to the one that occurred in North Hollywood at the Bank of America?

If so, I believe the only two people who died were the robbers themselves.

That is correct. seven private citizens and ten police officers suffered injuries, but only the gunmen were killed.

Ryan

Write Winger
11-15-2009, 7:34 AM
I remember back in 2000 when the antis were trying to ban "vest busters" and they asked Cheney about it on CNN or some stupid network, and he said (paraphrasing), "There is no bullet specifically designed to pierce bullet proof vests, and it would be irresponsible of me to say what can."

It wasn't/isn't commonly known that any rifle bullet can penatrate a bullet proof vest. But now (and then) the antis were counting on the ignorance of the American people.

I guess in some ways its a good thing that not every gang banger knows rifle bullets can do that, but a bad thing for us getting legislation shoved down our throats based on a lie.

Roadrunner
11-15-2009, 8:06 AM
I've never seen a department complain. More aggrevatingly, I've never seen one take the NYPD, NJ state police, SFPD, Chicago PD, et al. to task publicly.

It's just kind of funny that children are being replaced by police. So instead of disarming "for the children", they want us to disarm "for the police".

Cokebottle
11-15-2009, 10:34 AM
It's just kind of funny that children are being replaced by police. So instead of disarming "for the children", they want us to disarm "for the police".
So the police can protect the children.

1859sharps
11-15-2009, 3:05 PM
"big boomers"..... glad the brady crowd cleared up what this is..otherwise I would have thought the term referred to fat people born in the post world war 2 years.

Roadrunner
11-15-2009, 7:31 PM
So the police can protect the children.

:roflmao: Very good.

7x57
11-15-2009, 8:37 PM
Ew, ok the "big boomers" moniker came from "shooting industry"

So it's an inside job..


OK, this is another instance of a disturbing pattern. "Assault weapons" was a sales term (going back at least to that Gun Digest book). "Tactical knife" was a sales term. Essentially, it appears that salesmen, magazine writers, and so on are doing the hard work for the gun-banners (and by "hard work," I mean "coming up with dumb terms instead of actually working").

The other interesting thing here is that these terms would be appearing in places read by no one except gun people. That means VPC is paying someone to read gun mags, books, and trade rags all the time. I wonder if the postman smirks every time he delivers a stack of gun mags to VPC?

On Joyce Foundation or Soros money, I guess. I withdraw my objection--this is one of the less damaging ways they could spend their money. :chris:

7x57