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m2hbvic
03-31-2005, 1:04 AM
Does anyone know if it is possible to build/own a CA legal clone of a HK91/G3 type rifle if the magazine release is pinned or welded up, as is done on the CA legal clones of FAL type rifles???
THANKS,
Vic

Mike Searson
03-31-2005, 6:42 AM
Originally posted by m2hbvic:
Does anyone know if it is possible to build/own a CA legal clone of a HK91/G3 type rifle if the magazine release is pinned or welded up, as is done on the CA legal clones of FAL type rifles???
THANKS,
Vic

I don't think there is a feasible way of doing this unless you load through the ejection port.

bwiese
03-31-2005, 7:36 AM
Unless you could manage to load thru ejection port (ouch) it might be a problem.

The HK91/93 receivers are bent sheet metal, so there's no heavy frame that can just have a sheet metal cover like the CaliFALs can. There are a few HK9X-style receivers made out of aluminum forgings - someone might have the bright idea of adapting one of those, dunno...

If the gun is not specifically named a Heckler & Koch HK91 or HK93 - both being on the Roberti-Roos AWCA 1989 "list" - the gun would be a Type III 'by features' AW only if it had a pistol grip and/or flash hider.

If you keep the pistol grip off the rifle, and store/transit it with both the grip AND the gun locked separately you could use this gun out of state.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

m2hbvic
03-31-2005, 12:39 PM
Thanks guys for the info.

So am I correct in saying that it would NOT be CA legal to have an HK91/G3 clone (receiver NOT marked "HK91" or "G3") here in CA even though the magazine (a 10-round capacity) is permanently fixed to the gun (as in pinning and/or welding the magazine release mechanism)???

I would think that just making a semi-automatic centerfire rifle with a non-detachable 10-round magazine would not define it as an "assault rifle" here in CA. Is that correct?

As far as being able to load it only through the ejection port, yeah, it would be a pain. But what the heck, at least you've got the basic gun.
THANKS,
Vic

bwiese
03-31-2005, 1:12 PM
m2hbvic wrote:
So am I correct in saying that it would NOT be CA legal to have an HK91/G3 clone (receiver NOT marked "HK91" or "G3") here in CA even though the magazine (a 10-round capacity) is permanently fixed to the gun (as in pinning and/or welding the magazine release mechanism)???

No: I believe this would indeed be legal as it no longer has enough evil features to be a CA assault weapon, and would be the HK-style equivalent of a 'CaliFAL' FAL-based non-AW.

This is not an AR or AK so the mag just needs to be affixed with screws, etc. and not welded. It just can't be 'readily detachable' but must take reasonable time + tools to remove.

...just making a semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a nondetachable 10-round magazine would not define it as an "assault rifle" here in CA. Is that correct?

As above, yes. You're allowed just one evil feature before it becomes an AW. Since your HK clone will have a pistol grip, you can't have a detachable magazine, etc.

As far as being able to load it only through the ejection port, yeah, it would be a pain. But what the heck, at least you've got the basic gun

Yes - but with really sore fingers! May be REALLY difficult to load and almost useless.

And because of this I doubt you'll find any "Cali-HK" kits that allow a permanently affixed 10rd magazine, etc. Just no demand. By contrast the FAL clone upper receivers are open on the top so only a different receiver cover, made from a simple sheet metal stamping, is needed.

I honestly think you are better off spending your $$ for a CaliFAL. Many more quality parts available, bigger knowledge base, etc. And if you're a reloader, a FAL doesn't kill brass like an HK does: factory HK barrels have a fluted chamber that makes spent brass essentially useless.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

1919_4_ME
03-31-2005, 4:40 PM
If you could get an out of state FFL to cut the pistol grip off of a Century G3 it could be legal by Cali standards.It is not named on the list only HK. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bwiese
03-31-2005, 4:45 PM
I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that has been mauled by Century!

Numerous folks tell of dangerous headspacing in a variety of arms (Garands, FALs, etc.) they've touched. "Finish work" = Dremel!

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike Searson
03-31-2005, 6:39 PM
Aside from the CA-15's (not around anymore anyway!) if you're going to buy anything from century make sure it's something they imported...and nothing built by them...unless you don't mind checking headspace, etc.

It still echoes in my mind:

"What do you mean by headspace?"

m2hbvic
04-01-2005, 12:16 AM
Thanks BWIESE for the clarification!

Yes, I'm already planning on a CA legal FAL clone with a "non-detachable" 10-round magazine on it, but I sure would like to also have an HK91 clone even though it would have to be a CA legal configuration.

BTW, would it be legal to permanently attach a 20-round magazine on a FAL clone or HK91 clone if the magazine was owned prior to the CA high-capacity magazine ban???
THANKS,
Vic

esskay
04-01-2005, 6:50 AM
Originally posted by m2hbvic:
BTW, would it be legal to permanently attach a 20-round magazine on a FAL clone or HK91 clone if the magazine was owned prior to the CA high-capacity magazine ban???


No, sorry it has to be 10 rounds or less.

m2hbvic
04-01-2005, 11:32 AM
Okay, thanks for that info. 10-round mags sucks, especially when it's on a nice semi-auto military style rifle!!!
Vic

Sean
04-06-2005, 9:00 AM
Hello,

Here’s my plan:

Have a kit built with the required number of US parts by a reputable smith and have them install a 10 round magazine. For the magazine release, instead of putting in a spring, I will have them put in a sleeve so that the magazine release cannot be pushed in. This should follow all the rules and be legal. Loading through the ejection port isn’t as hard as many people think UNLESS… you have larger fingers. I’ve tested this on my HK and it works fine. If you ever move to an area where you can have this gun in its normal form, you remove the sleeve and reinstall the spring and you’re back in business. HTH.

Respectfully,

Sean
dvtagent@hotmail.com

P.S. If you are looking for a kit, let me know, I still have a few of the nicer ones left.

50 Freak
04-06-2005, 10:22 AM
Personally I'd stick with the idea of a pistol grip-less HK.

Not as easy to handle as a rifle with a PG, but at least you can use full mags.

I recently shot a Robinson Arms M-96 (minus PG) and it wasn't so bad.

Turbinator
04-06-2005, 4:30 PM
Originally posted by Sean:
Have a kit built with the required number of US parts by a reputable smith and have them install a 10 round magazine. For the magazine release, instead of putting in a spring, I will have them put in a sleeve so that the magazine release cannot be pushed in. This should follow all the rules and be legal. Loading through the ejection port isn’t as hard as many people think UNLESS… you have larger fingers. I’ve tested this on my HK and it works fine. If you ever move to an area where you can have this gun in its normal form, you remove the sleeve and reinstall the spring and you’re back in business. HTH.

Would you please keep us informed.. this sounds like an interesting plan. If this works, I'd also be interested in doing something similar.

Turby

Cutaway
08-15-2008, 3:40 PM
A "U15" stock for a G3 would make it look like a Japanese Type 11 light machine gun

http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/t11lmgleft.jpg

SI-guru
08-15-2008, 9:45 PM
Get a thumbhole stock and filled it up. Add a muzzle brake and you should be able to have an open magwell G3/HK91 clone (if the receiver is not on the list).

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/107498000/107498323/pix235756984.jpg

Q
08-15-2008, 9:56 PM
A "U15" stock for a G3 would make it look like a Japanese Type 11 light machine gun

http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/t11lmgleft.jpg

The OG U15! :D

radd
08-15-2008, 10:54 PM
hm......

I prefer "Raddlock" over Redlock.;)

PolishMike
08-15-2008, 10:57 PM
A "U15" stock for a G3 would make it look like a Japanese Type 11 light machine gun



Holy necropost batman!

a1fabweld
08-15-2008, 11:21 PM
How about the PTR-91? It's almost an exact HK 91. From what I heard, the recievers are stamped on HK dies. Some HK gurus actually say they are built better than factory 91's/G3's. I own a 16" carbine & a 18" rifle. They have bullet button mag locks with 20rd mags pinned at 10rds. Of all my black rifles, they are by far my favorite. I shoot them at the range & the most attention I get is from people admiring them. Lanworld ships them to CA as well as Cold War Shooters. They run about $1100-$1250. With the bullet button, they meet CA definition of a fixed magazine.

joe_sun
08-16-2008, 7:07 AM
Holy necropost batman!

LOL

I've been wanting to use this pic since I first saw it!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f327/cesarhaha/forum%20replies/ThreadNecromancer.jpg

supersonic
08-16-2008, 11:25 AM
hm......

I prefer "Raddlock" over Redlock.;)

I was wondering when you were going to show up, Radd! Just got two each for the HK G3/91 & USC. Mounted one of each on 2 friends' builds, kept the other 2 for myself after realizing "another sickness" creeping in!!!!!! You're KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

bcrich
08-16-2008, 4:47 PM
yeah just get a ptr 91, it's the next best thing to a real hk91 without the
$2k+ price tag

X-NewYawker
08-16-2008, 4:50 PM
The HK 91 is NOT the gun to try to load through the ejection port. Move to Las Vegas and own whatever you want.

joe_sun
08-16-2008, 4:55 PM
Is anyone even paying attention to the fact that this thread is over THREE YEARS OLD???

supersonic
08-16-2008, 8:42 PM
:kest:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NeoWeird
08-17-2008, 12:43 AM
Hey, I didn't try to eat the brains out of this topic, but since it's up, mighta s well play with it.


"What do you mean by headspace?"

That gave me a little shudder down my spine because I have no doubt that Century said just that.

Davidwhitewolf
08-19-2008, 3:53 PM
Hey, this thread managed to help infect me with PTR BRD, and I haven't even finished building my first OLL yet. :eek:

So thanks be to the Re-Animator.

PIRATE14
08-19-2008, 5:26 PM
Got PLENTY of those in CALIFORNIA..........and more every week........
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o172/wegoclan/0052.jpg

palakaboy
08-22-2008, 12:44 AM
damn cold war! do you take trades?hehehe ;)

socomIInato
08-22-2008, 6:07 PM
accept no compromise! HK

niceguy
08-22-2008, 9:36 PM
The HK 91 is NOT the gun to try to load through the ejection port.

Oh I dunno..... I have little problem with that on mine, even with a port buffer installed.

radd
08-22-2008, 10:24 PM
Ok......thread from the dead........Lets keep going...........

Lets fast forward 3 years now.......

Why load through ejection port when you can drop mag......

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/label%20ptr/BDE-003_revised.jpg


http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/label%20ptr/91_MP5_BTT-002.jpg

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/sendable/6-Bullet-Button-1.jpg

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/sendable/8-Bullet-Button-3.jpg

Radd

69Mach1
08-22-2008, 10:31 PM
2008 will pass and I still will not have the parts to have my PSG-1 clone built. Definitely 2009 though.

trinydex
08-23-2008, 12:23 AM
Why load through ejection port when you can drop mag......


askin' the hard questions... providing the easy answers.

Frijolito1988
08-23-2008, 2:46 PM
Ok......thread from the dead........Lets keep going...........

Lets fast forward 3 years now.......

Why load through ejection port when you can drop mag......

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/label%20ptr/BDE-003_revised.jpg


http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/label%20ptr/91_MP5_BTT-002.jpg

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/sendable/6-Bullet-Button-1.jpg

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/sendable/8-Bullet-Button-3.jpg

Radd

would that look work on a cetme ?

radd
08-24-2008, 4:11 AM
This will technically fit a Cetme. The reason I say technically is because Cetme is in the G3 Clone family. However, it all depends on who built the receiver.

Most Cetme on the market are built from parts kit. Some receiver out there are just badly put together, especially the mag release area. Some have bad welding and some don't have flat surface.

I have found if you used a PTR receiver, then you 100% good to go. Others might need more fitting for the Raddlock. Some receiver are just too out of spec to make my device fit.

Radd

Q
08-24-2008, 2:24 PM
Why load through ejection port when you can drop mag......

I read the radd lock doesn't work on a G3 clone with a lever mag release upgrade. That's the most important upgrade for a G3 clone.IMHO
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/side.jpg

I'll have to buy one of the mp5 radd locks someday.:)

RP1911
08-24-2008, 4:35 PM
I just finished installing one. I did PM Radd to make sure I had it right due to the tolerance on my rifle being off (too much weld in the corner) a bit. Radd responded quickly and confirmed that it was the tolerance difference on the rifle.

My solution was to bevel the bottom edge with a dremel as well as the protrusion tab so that the lower trigger assembly would create a tight fit. I'm confident that a screwdriver or a pair of pliers will be needed to remove the RaddLock.

Great product!

radd
08-24-2008, 5:16 PM
I read the radd lock doesn't work on a G3 clone with a lever mag release upgrade. That's the most important upgrade for a G3 clone.IMHO

Raddlock will work on G3 rifles with paddle release, but the paddle release will be disabled. So the paddle still sits on the bottom of the receiver. There is no room to keep the paddle release functional without destroying original lines and look of the rifle.

The only solution to keep the paddle release functional is either take it out of state, remove pistol grip, or put a ugly cage around it which will still require a tool and whats the point of that.

Radd