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View Full Version : Quick MS2 question about 2 point configuration.


bombadillo
11-10-2009, 8:37 PM
So the "Lockjaw" unit that they use on the MS2 slings are going to have to snap on to something. What have you guys used for them to connect to the front of the rifle?? I was looking at the M.I. HK sling thing on a few sites for around 35 bucks, but wondered if there are any better options. Do the Magpul slings even like connecting to an HK style attachment point or are there other optimal attachment methods. Thanks in advance.

bombadillo
11-10-2009, 8:49 PM
I'm dying to hit the ADD to cart button............

esskay
11-10-2009, 9:21 PM
Are you talking about the MCTAR-TS? That doesn't look big enough for the lockjaw.

I have used an empty QD sling swivel sitting in a QD socket on the rail. This works fine.

I also picked up a CQD mount thinking it might be a good way to go, but it will need to be modified a bit if I want to use it for the MS/2. The lockjaw is a little too big to work seamlessly with the CQD. I saw someone posting that they relieved some material on the mount to make it work.
http://www.cqd.net/images/forwardSling_02_large.jpg

bombadillo
11-10-2009, 10:02 PM
This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for so thanks esskay. I am looking for what mount to get up front that will work with the lockjaw. I never saw a single recommendation coming from Magpul. I was also looking at the vtac setup for QD on 4 different points. Its here http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/c92393414dcf9dfa155578f62f715e00.jpg

We'll see, but lets keep them coming. Who has actually used it as a two point and how did you make it work well without being chincy??

esskay
11-10-2009, 11:17 PM
The VTAC mount is nice but doesn't look like the loop is big enough to accommodate the MS/2's lockjaw either. If someone knows for sure, please chime in. But sure looks too small.

As I said, a QD socket (Daniel Defense rail mounted one seemed to be the lowest profile) with an empty QD swivel works fine for me.

If you're asking about the actual utility of the MS/2 sling, some thoughts on it:
* Think of it as a single point sling with bonus functionality. Its primary mode is single point. I see 2 pt mode as just a secondary feature. It is a fantastic single point sling, but it is not a great two point sling.
* I have used the MS/2's 2 pt mode to transport my rifle more comfortably, but would not use 2 pt mode to deploy the weapon. The great strength of a 2 pt sling like the Viking is that it works well as a shooting aid while providing sufficient (but not outstanding) ability to provide for transitions. What makes it a good shooting aid is the ability to very very easily fine tune length when you sling up. In 2 pt mode, the MS/2 cannot be adjusted easily enough; plus IMO the best attachment points for a 2 pt sling are at the ends of the rifle, which is not consistent with the MS/2. I do not find the MS/2 in 2pt mode to be much of a shooting aid.

The MS/2 really shines in direct action, dynamic, close quarters situations. So inside my home, for CQB, etc, I'd go for a MS/2 with ASAP plate and front mounting near the rear of the handguard (for the odd time when you might switch to 2pt mode).

For situations where you'd expect longer range contact, patrolling, etc, I'd consider a Viking VCAS sling mounted at the rear of buttstock (on outside strong side) and the front of the handguard, via QD swivels.

AlliedArmory
11-11-2009, 1:09 AM
the MI HK sling point will NOT work. It is too small

bombadillo
11-11-2009, 7:32 AM
Thanks both of you guys for responses. I went ahead and ordered a MCTAR-08hd and the MS2 sling. http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=80 <---Here!! If the Midwest industries fails to be of use for me there, then I have other uses so it won't be wasted. I can use it for another project I have. I will be using the MS2 only on a 16" carbine anyway and my Boonie Packer 2pqt 2 point on my 18" and a standard padded sling on the 20" but that will be later. I am really wondering what ol "Kevlar Beard" Himself is using when he's dropping to the ground going urban prone for no apparent reason at shot show. He then gets back up, goes to 2 pt. configuration but what is this mystery attachment point that he clips to??

Plisk
11-11-2009, 1:51 PM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_Troy_Industries_Rail_Mountable_Sling_Combo _Mount.html

I believe Chris is using something like this. If you go to Magpul page for the MS2 there is a video link to Chris deomostrating it at Shotshow. It gives somewhat of a close up when he goes to 2-point. I'd find the link, but Youtube isn't being nice to me right now.

I'm planning to use the above mount, or the GI barrel mounted side sling attachment for my MS2.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4521/Product/M_4_USGI_BARREL_MOUNT_SWIVEL

BlackViper
11-11-2009, 7:02 PM
I had an issue using the DD quick detach swivel on the front with the lock jaw. When running a COF sometimes the lock jaw would bind in such a way as to depress the QD button and release it completely from the mount. And what is with the tensioner on that lock jaw? ...when I first received it I couldn't even get it open, and even after the fact I was afraid to actually lock it down when on the rifle because if I had to detach it in a hurry I can't reliably get the jaw open.

Another issue I had was with the other end connector. Even though it has that little pull cord with the locking pin it would somehow drag on my plate carrier and would repeatedly pull open - releasing the other end of the sling while running a COF.

So I tried to like the MS2 but eventually couldn't stand it (for various reasons). It seemed like it did neither thing as well as a dedicated version, so I have a TT bungee single point that I like and a LaRue padded 2 point that I like - both of which have worked perfectly for me when running COFs in full plate carrier and gear.

As always, Your Mileage May Vary, but that was my experience.

Mute
11-11-2009, 7:22 PM
The lockjaw works best with a non-swiveling front mount. I also find the CQD mount to work well with the MS2.

esskay
11-11-2009, 8:11 PM
The lockjaw works best with a non-swiveling front mount. I also find the CQD mount to work well with the MS2.

Mute, did you make any modifications to your CQD mount? I found my lockjaw was just a tad too large to attach nicely, but it looked like if I relieved a little bit of material it might work well.

ETA - found info described below.

esskay
11-12-2009, 1:27 AM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_Troy_Industries_Rail_Mountable_Sling_Combo _Mount.html

I believe Chris is using something like this. If you go to Magpul page for the MS2 there is a video link to Chris deomostrating it at Shotshow. It gives somewhat of a close up when he goes to 2-point. I'd find the link, but Youtube isn't being nice to me right now.

I'm planning to use the above mount, or the GI barrel mounted side sling attachment for my MS2.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4521/Product/M_4_USGI_BARREL_MOUNT_SWIVEL

I don't think that Troy is going to work with the lockjaw. Looks much too bulky for the lockjaw to fit around it.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/xsmoucom00bt.jpg

As for the barrel mount, I don't know if you have a free float handguard but it is always a good idea if you can to keep sling mounts off of the barrel.

Also, I found out what the Magpul boys use for their front attachment point. A CQD mount like I posted above -- they opened up the loop and also cut the base down to take up less space. You can actually make it out in this picture, notice how the base has been chopped down between the two bolts:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/MagPul_Sling_SHOT_Show_2009_2.jpg

Here's the thread I found on arfcom discussing this, with some more pics (I'm posting up these pics from that thread so credit goes to them):
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=19&t=454765

Also found a CQD review stating that it works well with the MS2 once you dremel down the ridge in the loop. Notice the ridge on the base side:
http://www.cqd.net/images/forwardSling_01_large.jpg

If you don't relieve the material, there isn't quite enough room for the lockjaw so the only way you can clip in is like this:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/LMT/CQD_MS2005.jpg

I plan to take a dremel to my CQD loop.

Mute
11-12-2009, 8:00 AM
I have my CQD mount installed in a similar manner, though a further towards the front of my rail. I have not had to modify it for the lockjaw to fit.

esskay
11-12-2009, 2:10 PM
I have my CQD mount installed in a similar manner, though a further towards the front of my rail. I have not had to modify it for the lockjaw to fit.

Can the lockjaw rotate/move in the loop, or does it get jammed up like in the last photo above?

Mute
11-12-2009, 2:52 PM
The clip portion of the lockjaw stays put. It shouldn't move or rotate. The ability of the MS2 to move and rotate is carried out by the other parts of the hardware connected to the lockjaw device.

esskay
11-12-2009, 9:27 PM
The clip portion of the lockjaw stays put. It shouldn't move or rotate. The ability of the MS2 to move and rotate is carried out by the other parts of the hardware connected to the lockjaw device.

What I meant was if you look at this pic from the Magpul booth, with the CQD that they've modified:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/MagPul_Sling_SHOT_Show_2009_2.jpg

You can see that the lockjaw is clipped in at an angle, not jammed up against the handguard.

If you look at this pic:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/LMT/CQD_MS2005.jpg

You can see that the only way it seems the lockjaw can clip in to an unmodified CQD is jammed up against the side of the rail, which is not to my liking (nor apparently Costa & Haley). Sounds like that's how it works with yours, but I gather it doesn't bother you which is cool.

So we're all good, this just confirms that I will need to take a dremel to my CQD mount to make it work the way I want.

Should add that when I was testing using the MS2 with the CQD, I think because the lockjaw was jammed up against the rail and unable to move at all... when I was moving around with the rifle slung in 2 pt mode somehow the lockjaw got bumped and it opened up, dumping the rifle to the deck. Never had that problem with the lockjaw clipped into a QD swivel.

bombadillo
11-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Well, I already bought a MI Heavy Duty sling swivel so we'll see how that works, if not, I'll go with a modified CQD and cut it in half as well as dremmel it out.

esskay
11-12-2009, 11:30 PM
Well, I already bought a MI Heavy Duty sling swivel so we'll see how that works, if not, I'll go with a modified CQD and cut it in half as well as dremmel it out.

That will be serviceable. I've run a similar MS/2 setup through a couple classes this year. The only annoyances may be: (a) when clipped to the sling loop the lockjaw will likely not clear the middle swivel, so you'll need to either clip in to the top or bottom part -- this never really bothered me but it might to some, (b) when in single point mode (which is probably most of the time) the sling swivel will be empty -- this bothers some (though not me).

Re: CQD. I personally don't plan to cut the base in half, I find that unnecessary as it isn't that crowded on the left side of my handguard.

Mute
11-13-2009, 8:44 AM
What I meant was if you look at this pic from the Magpul booth, with the CQD that they've modified:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/MagPul_Sling_SHOT_Show_2009_2.jpg

You can see that the lockjaw is clipped in at an angle, not jammed up against the handguard.

If you look at this pic:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/LMT/CQD_MS2005.jpg

You can see that the only way it seems the lockjaw can clip in to an unmodified CQD is jammed up against the side of the rail, which is not to my liking (nor apparently Costa & Haley). Sounds like that's how it works with yours, but I gather it doesn't bother you which is cool.

So we're all good, this just confirms that I will need to take a dremel to my CQD mount to make it work the way I want.

Should add that when I was testing using the MS2 with the CQD, I think because the lockjaw was jammed up against the rail and unable to move at all... when I was moving around with the rifle slung in 2 pt mode somehow the lockjaw got bumped and it opened up, dumping the rifle to the deck. Never had that problem with the lockjaw clipped into a QD swivel.

On my lockjaw/CQD combo, I can hook in the way shown in the picture as well (without modifying the CDQ). I just prefer it the other way because I don't have this large piece of metal protruding from the side of the rifle.

With regards to the problem of the lockjaw opening accidentally, I had the same problem until I started using the locking cam. No problem after that. It's a minor issue as a majority of the time I'm using the sling in single point mode. The only time I use it in 2 point mode is when I'm just carrying the rifle.

esskay
11-13-2009, 5:46 PM
On my lockjaw/CQD combo, I can hook in the way shown in the picture as well (without modifying the CDQ). I just prefer it the other way because I don't have this large piece of metal protruding from the side of the rifle.

With regards to the problem of the lockjaw opening accidentally, I had the same problem until I started using the locking cam. No problem after that. It's a minor issue as a majority of the time I'm using the sling in single point mode. The only time I use it in 2 point mode is when I'm just carrying the rifle.

Interesting! With my unmodified CQD the second picture is the only way that I can clip in the lockjaw. I suppose that means that there's either production variations in the CQD mounts or in the lockjaw...

I use the MS2 sling the same way as you. I just found that even without locking down the jaw, with a sling swivel it never accidentally opened, but with my unmodified CQD it did. So I'm also hoping tweaking the CQD will result in the lockjaw not opening accidentally when unlocked. If not, as you noted using the lock isn't the end of the world. We'll see!

till44
11-13-2009, 9:17 PM
How about this KZ sling: http://www.botachtactical.com/kzslingadapter.html
I don't have the MS2 sling but I have the KZ sling adapter. Works great with a two point sling and is real solid.

bombadillo
11-13-2009, 10:59 PM
Wow, saw a thread the other day about what we "Need" and apparently its a larger loop for sling attachments that isn't too thick to clip onto. That would benefit people greatly by the looks of it. I may end up modifying the CQD mount I just got off Rainier arms when it gets here and try to stretch the loop out a little bit for good measure as well as taking off some of the inside material.

capntroy
11-14-2009, 5:45 AM
The CQD is the best mount for the lockjaw at this time. Costa's CQD has been cut in half and has been heavily dremeled all around the circumference of the inside to allow the lockjaw to swivel. I believe he's also taken a little off of the bottom lip of the lockjaw for good measure....

bombadillo
11-16-2009, 6:43 PM
Well, got an email back after I originally started this thread so that would make it a little less than a week, and here is what they wrote back:

XXXXX, (Bombadillo)

Thank you for your inquiry and sorry for the late reply. While the guys have experimented with numerous mounts we have found that a standard 1.25” sling swivel works as well as any other mount in front (usually better).





If there is anything I can ever do for you, please feel free to contact me.



JUSTIN BEARD

Customer Service Manager

Magpul Industries Corporation

1.877.4MAGPUL x 118

Email: jbeard@magpul.com