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andalusi
11-10-2009, 5:50 PM
If the party transferring a handgun includes a gun lock (specifically, the gun lock that came with the firearm), does the receiving party still need to purchase a new gun lock or have purchased one within the previous 30 days?

halifax
11-10-2009, 6:16 PM
Should not have to but some shops may require it anyway. Find another shop if that is the case.

kemasa
11-11-2009, 6:37 AM
No, it is included with the firearm, as a new firearm does. It would make sense if the buyer brought a lock without a receipt that they should not be forced to buy a lock, but that is not the law. For example, if a buyer bought 500 locks for a good deal, why should they be forced to buy another one? There is nothing saying that they can't return the lock after they pickup their firearm either.

andalusi
11-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Thanks to both of you guys. And Kemasa, I agree completely: if I've got a spare perfectly good CA DOJ approved gun lock, why on earth do I have to buy a new one?

Ah well, thankfully I had the original lock and so did the other guy for his gun, so it all worked out.

geeknow
11-11-2009, 11:37 AM
If the party transferring a handgun includes a gun lock (specifically, the gun lock that came with the firearm), does the receiving party still need to purchase a new gun lock or have purchased one within the previous 30 days?

Yes...the requirement is that a gun lock be bought by the transferee at the time of transfer (or within 30 days with valid receipt). Sucks, I know...but that is the way it is...besides, many gun locks provided actually do not have DOJ approval.

geeknow
11-11-2009, 11:39 AM
Thanks to both of you guys. And Kemasa, I agree completely: if I've got a spare perfectly good CA DOJ approved gun lock, why on earth do I have to buy a new one?

Ah well, thankfully I had the original lock and so did the other guy for his gun, so it all worked out.

Dude, those other guys are not correct....

Your spare, perfectly good CA DOJ approved lock must also have a receipt of purchase dated not more than 30 days prior.

Like I said in the earlier post, it sucks, but its the rules...

Cokebottle
11-11-2009, 11:47 AM
No, it is included with the firearm, as a new firearm does. It would make sense if the buyer brought a lock without a receipt that they should not be forced to buy a lock, but that is not the law. For example, if a buyer bought 500 locks for a good deal, why should they be forced to buy another one? There is nothing saying that they can't return the lock after they pickup their firearm either.
The 30-day receipt rule (law?) is in place because you are supposed to have a lock for each and every gun that you own.
If you bring in your own lock, there is no way to verify that it was not removed from a gun that you currently own.

If you are going to PPT and the seller does not have a lock for it, meet them at their home (or some other place where it is legal to UOC), sell them the lock for a buck, and have them install it before going to the FFL.

Check posts from tenpercent to see how he handles things in his shop... he runs a lock exchange program where you bring in your lock and he tosses it into a bucket, then takes another lock out of the bucket and records the sale with the serial number from that lock, so there is no falsification on documentation that the gun is not being sold with your existing lock.

In the case of the PPT, it would also not be falsification because you legally sold your lock to the seller prior to the transfer.

tenpercentfirearms
11-11-2009, 9:48 PM
The law is clear. If you bring in a lock for the purposes of that transaction, you must have a receipt showing purchase with in 30 days. However, there is absolutely nothing prohibiting the dealer from including a lock with the firearm and most new firearms come with a lock from the manufacturer. So if there was a lock with the PPT firearm, I wouldn't question it anymore than I would question a lock that comes from a new gun from the manufacturer. The only time I would question it is if a buyer came in and specifically told me he wanted to use the lock he just brought in. I would ask him for a receipt. If he didn't have one, then I would tell him he can't use that lock for this transaction, but he can just give it to me. I would then take a different model lock that I have and be sure to include it with his gun purchase. Done.

The lock requirement is the last thing a dealer should nickel and dime his customer on, ever. It is so easy to comply with, especially if you can get your local PD to donate their left over supply of 800 Project Childsafe locks.

Fjold
11-12-2009, 6:48 AM
Get the guy who sold you the gun and lock to write you out a receipt for both when you do the PPT.

That way when you pick up the gun and the lock, you will have a receipt dated 10 days before.

kemasa
11-12-2009, 7:40 AM
One thing that you are forgetting with respect to the lock and a 30 day receipt is that it does not count for the Feds. Under the Federal law, which has yet to be properly published and which I heard that due to that it can not really be enforced, is the FFL must provide a lock or a safe, not the buyer, not the seller, although it seems their view is that if it comes from the seller or with the gun, then that is good enough.

I talked to the BATF lawyer and he does not consider the buyer having a safe to be acceptable and specifically that the FFL has to provide the item.

So, if you want to be safe, you need to follow both the state and federal laws, which means you have to play games, like with the lock exchange (buying used locks and selling them with a transfer).