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akoba
11-10-2009, 10:34 AM
MOD please move the thread if this is not the proper place. TY

I just wanna ask these Q's . Just answer it in short and easy to understand (i just migrated here in USA and want to know these laws.)
what is the 1st amendment (freedom of speech right?)
4th amendment?
5th
6
8


What is Letter of the law and Spirit of the law? and difference between two. ( cause i think im mixed up and confuse about the this)


Example:
Scenario = leo stop me for over speeding.

letter of the law
If the leo just give me a warning and tell me to slow down next time.

Spirit of the law
Leo give me a speeding ticket because i break a law.

Is this example correct? Please please, correct me if im wrong :(

Thank you

blackberg
11-10-2009, 10:39 AM
the amendments are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution, known as the bill of rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

-bb

paul0660
11-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Where y'all from boy?

Google US Constitution and start reading. The first 10 amendments are called the Bill of Rights, the rest were added later. Hopefully you are working on becoming a citizen, and will know this stuff better than the locals.

You have spirit vs. letter backwards, sort of.

akoba
11-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Where y'all from boy?

Google US Constitution and start reading. The first 10 amendments are called the Bill of Rights, the rest were added later. Hopefully you are working on becoming a citizen, and will know this stuff better than the locals.

You have spirit vs. letter backwards, sort of.

yes sir, i just started my application for citizenship. But this confusion is for my exam this coming friday for POST. Im taking PC832 class.

So my example about spirit vs letter of the law is wrong?

One more question please.
Is the Bill of Right only applicable for US citizen? yes or no?

thnx
i'll start googling these amendments.

Southwest Chuck
11-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Example:
Scenario = leo stop me for over speeding.

letter of the law
If the leo just give me a warning and tell me to slow down next time.

Spirit of the law
Leo give me a speeding ticket because i break a law.

Is this example correct? Please please, correct me if im wrong


You've got it Backwards:It should be:


Example:
Scenario = leo stop me for over speeding.

Letter of the law:
Leo give me a speeding ticket because i break a law.

Spirit of the law:
If the leo just give me a warning and tell me to slow down next time Because the spirit is to promote public safety, yours and everyone elses

Where did you immigrate from?

Southwest Chuck
11-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Is the Bill of Right only applicable for US citizen? yes or no?

No. It applies to everyone on U.S. soil.

akoba
11-10-2009, 11:01 AM
You've got it Backwards:It should be:


Example:
Scenario = leo stop me for over speeding.

Letter of the law:
Leo give me a speeding ticket because i break a law.

Spirit of the law:
If the leo just give me a warning and tell me to slow down next time Because the spirit is to promote public safety, yours and everyone elses

Where did you immigrate from?
Thank you very much sir for the correction. (now i have to set and keep that in my mind)
Im from Philippines

No. It applies to everyone on U.S. soil.
Thank you very much on this Answer and explanation sir chuck.

wash
11-10-2009, 11:11 AM
I always associate spirit with intent, so if you look at the AWB, the spirit was to outlaw all "evil black rifles". Following the letter of the law lets us legally own OLL rifles.

I'm OK with breaking the spirit of the AWB law because I believe in my second amendment rights more than CA's AWB.

Dark Paladin
11-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I always associate spirit with intent, so if you look at the AWB, the spirit was to outlaw all "evil black rifles". Following the letter of the law lets us legally own OLL rifles.

I'm OK with breaking the spirit of the AWB law because I believe in my second amendment rights more than CA's AWB.

Personally I believe the 2nd Amendment trumps CA's AWB. . . as the spirit of the CA AWB is in direct conflict with the spirit of the 2nd A. But that's just my opinion.

akoba
11-10-2009, 11:18 AM
Argghhh one more question please.

on google
Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. Is it applicable only US citizen? Yes or no ?

thanks

wash
11-10-2009, 11:36 AM
You need to learn about incorporation.

It's a big topic and if I tried to explain I would screw it up.

The short answer is that in California we do not currently have the second amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Hopefully that will be resolved by next summer.

pretz
11-10-2009, 11:52 AM
As I understand it, the Constitution guarantees certain protections to all people in the U.S., with the possible exception of enemy combatants/enemy agents and members of our Military. These protections are subject to Supreme Court interpretation.

Priviledges offered or implied by the Constitution apply to citizens only, subject to Supreme Court interpretation.

Southwest Chuck
11-10-2009, 11:52 AM
Argghhh one more question please.

on google
Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States.

Is it applicable only US citizen? Yes or no ?

thanks

Same as the Bill Of Rights. It applies to all.

wash
11-10-2009, 11:57 AM
Not yet.

I'll repeat, in California we have no right to keep and bear arms.

johnthomas
11-10-2009, 12:19 PM
No, even as a guest, your covered. Not sure where your going with this.

kf6tac
11-10-2009, 1:18 PM
No, even as a guest, your covered. Not sure where your going with this.

I don't think the OP is trying to "go" anywhere with this, other than figuring out exactly what constitutional protections apply to him while he is here.

OlderThanDirt
11-10-2009, 1:34 PM
Same as the Bill Of Rights. It applies to all.

Well, not quite. The US generously applies rights, like those that might be considered basic human rights, to all people on US soil, legal or illegally. However, RKBA, for example, does not apply to individuals here illegally.

Sgt Raven
11-10-2009, 1:52 PM
No, even as a guest, your covered. Not sure where your going with this.

The OP stated he is taking a test on this stuff and is trying to clear up some points in his own mind. If English is his second language then he might be losing something in translation and this thread is helping him get it right.

To the OP good luck with your test.

wash
11-10-2009, 2:00 PM
Ask a lawyer, no one in California has a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Citizen or not.

Hopefully that will change soon but as of now we don't have it.

paul0660
11-10-2009, 5:20 PM
Yes, akoba, like southwest chuck says, the Constitution applies to everyone. The fourteenth amendment made that clear.

mousegun
11-10-2009, 5:44 PM
The Constitution of the United States sets out the way the federal government shall be constituted and operate. Back in 1776 when the Declaration of Independent was published, the founding fathers of this country declared that the people were born with certain unalienable rights. Among these rights are life, liberty and the pusuit of happiness. There are others, but these three are the ones they felt were important to call out.

Now, when the Constitution was drafted, certain delegates feared the government would abuse or forget these unalienable rights through tyranny or corruption. They insisted that twelve amendments would have to be accepted before all the new states would ratify or accept the Constitution. Ten of those amendments survived the debate and are still in force for the federal government. After the civil war the 13th 14th and 15th amendments were passed to rectify the injustices of the pre-war United States. The 14th says that all the amendments must apply to the states and the state's citizens when and if a legal conflict occurs.

It is important to know that the Constitution gives us no rights. We already have all the rights we were born with. The Bill of Rights simply tells the government how to deal with those rights in certain issues. For instance, the government may not keep you from criticizing the president of the United States (the First Amendment) or force you to talk to a police official if you feel you would be incriminated by doing so (the Fifth Amendment). There are others, but that's the way it works here.

As far as the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law is concerned, authorities who establish penalties fines and restrictions have descretion as to how severe or lenient they may be depending of the circumstances of the offense. A maximum sentence would seldom be imposed on a poor woman who stole bread to feed her kids.

This help any?Guess this is overkill, huh?

Cokebottle
11-10-2009, 5:53 PM
Argghhh one more question please.

Is it applicable only US citizen? Yes or no ?

thanks
Applicable to any person on US soil, citizen or not.

snobord99
11-10-2009, 7:01 PM
You need to learn about incorporation.

It's a big topic and if I tried to explain I would screw it up.

The short answer is that in California we do not currently have the second amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Hopefully that will be resolved by next summer.

Hmm. Based on this statement, you might need to learn about incorporation. As of now, no state has the 2A right to bear arms.

Cokebottle
11-10-2009, 7:23 PM
Guys... he's prepping for one of his tests for his US Citizenship class... he's not (yet?) studying to pass the bar to be heard by the SCOTUS.

These classes are at this point along the level of primary school civics, which is an oversimplified view of the big picture.


He'll find out soon enough that not everything he learned in school is true ;)

M. Sage
11-10-2009, 7:30 PM
Argghhh one more question please.

Is it applicable only US citizen? Yes or no ?

thanks

No, it's applicable throughout the entire US. It is the supreme law of the US and as such applies to everything and everybody here.

... at least it's supposed to...

Think of the Constitution as the law that governs all other laws and you won't be too far from its purpose.

akoba
11-11-2009, 12:07 AM
Applicable to any person on US soil, citizen or not.

Thank you sir chuck, sir paul, sir sage and sir cokebottle for a very simple and clear answer. :)

Im a legal resident and migrated last 2002. Im a college graduate. Reading and writing english is not that hard for me. Except speaking. lolz
I screw up my english (speaking) when i start working in middle east for 6 yrs.

To tell you guys the truth, last october i attend and take the PC 832 (Arrest, Search & Seisure) class. On the fifth day when we do the exam, i failed (i got only 79 and the passing score is 84). Im:rolleyes: over confident i think. I remember some of the question that im sure i answer it wrong (that include the bill of rights , spirit VS letter of the law and this US constitution). Yeah im stupid (cause im sure for some of you guys this PC832 is just a piece of cake) But hey atleast im trying to learn something that will benefit me in the future.

So now i have only one chance to re-test again. Otherwise ill have to pay for the class and start all over again.

Thank you guys for all the replies and explanations.

Im glad i join this forum. Thanks to my gun. lolz

Cokebottle
11-11-2009, 12:20 AM
Honestly, by the time you stand with that proud group, put your hand over your heart, and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, you will have better knowledge and understanding of US civics and history than 75% of Americans.

When you have some time to kill, get a tape recorder and a microphone, and "interview" people on the street.
Ask them "Who did we fight in the Revolutionary War"

50-75% will be wrong. Many will say "Japan" or "Hitler".

Shotgun Man
11-11-2009, 8:25 AM
Thank you sir chuck, sir paul, sir sage and sir cokebottle for a very simple and clear answer. :)



"Sir," in the context you are using it, suggests the person you are addressing is a knight under the british monarchy, as in the sentence "Sir Paul McCartney sang for the Queen."

It is a title a nobility which we don't have here in the the US.

We do call adult males "sir," as a term of respect, as in "Yes, sir, right away, sir."

But it would be unusual to refer to one as sir Akoba, or sir Shotgun Man.

Good luck.

paul0660
11-11-2009, 8:59 AM
I kind of like Sir Paul. I might start going by that. Akoba, good luck.

Southwest Chuck
11-11-2009, 9:31 AM
Good luck, Akoba, and don't be afraid to ask any more questions, we're here to help.

Sir Chuck :D

mousegun
11-11-2009, 10:15 AM
Akoba, I have to disagree with you when you say you're stupid. You speak two languages, you are studying law enforcement and you certainly manage to hold your own here. Wish I could say that. Please stick around. You have my attention.

akoba
11-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Thank you sir once again.

I dont know, as im already get used to use that name to every guy i talk with (even a small kid). For me its my way of giving respect to them. Show other people respect and 90% on them will respect you back.

Back to the topic. Mod can now close this thread. They answer already my question and its now clear to me.

Shotgun Man
11-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Thank you sir once again.

I dont know, as im already get used to use that name to every guy i talk with (even a small kid). For me its my way of giving respect to them. Show other people respect and 90% on them will respect you back.

Back to the topic. Mod can now close this thread. They answer already my question and its now clear to me.

It is not customary in this country (or forum) for a mod to close a thread absent compelling reasons, none of which seem to be present here.

Southwest Chuck
11-11-2009, 11:37 AM
Thank you sir once again.

I dont know, as im already get used to use that name to every guy i talk with (even a small kid). For me its my way of giving respect to them. Show other people respect and 90% on them will respect you back.

Back to the topic. Mod can now close this thread. They answer already my question and its now clear to me.

It is not customary in this country (or forum) for a mod to close a thread absent compelling reasons, none of which seem to be present here.
Reply With Quote


Also, the thread needs to remain for other people who have similar questions as yours and can thus "Search" for it on the site using key words or strings. :)

And by the way, I respect your respect :D , just wish there was more of it around...

TurboS600
11-11-2009, 12:06 PM
And by the way, I respect your respect :D , just wish there was more of it around...

+1. We are sorely lacking that in the US these days.

Akoba, what is the reason for the class you are studying? Are you working towards getting into sworn law enforcement, going for the guard card, or is this part of getting ready for the citizenship test? BTW...good luck with your citizenship test. Like Cokebottle said, when you take the oath, you will be more knowledgeable that most Americans on the constitution and American laws and our representative form of government. My nanay took the test when she was 72 y/o and she passed with flying colors.

Good luck man,

Keith

dwtt
11-11-2009, 2:22 PM
I think it's great Akoba is taking his citizenship test and wants to learn about the consitution and bill of rights. We need more people doing this, not just new citizens.

Getting off topic, I think his first gun should be a 1911, just to exercise his 2nd Amendment right. :)

Quser.619
11-11-2009, 3:29 PM
Good Luck Akoba & welcome aboard, both figuratively & literally!

Cokebottle
11-11-2009, 4:01 PM
I think it's great Akoba is taking his citizenship test and wants to learn about the consitution and bill of rights. We need more people doing this, not just new citizens.

Getting off topic, I think his first gun should be a 1911, just to exercise his 2nd Amendment right. :)
Yup... and since the Constitution applies to all on US soil (unless restricted), including resident aliens, I think he should buy it now, take a picture of it, and show it to his class to show how he understands his rights!

Perhaps next year he will be able to legally take it to class.

M. Sage
11-11-2009, 4:49 PM
To tell you guys the truth, last october i attend and take the PC 832 (Arrest, Search & Seisure) class. On the fifth day when we do the exam, i failed (i got only 79 and the passing score is 84). Im:rolleyes: over confident i think. I remember some of the question that im sure i answer it wrong (that include the bill of rights , spirit VS letter of the law and this US constitution). Yeah im stupid (cause im sure for some of you guys this PC832 is just a piece of cake) But hey atleast im trying to learn something that will benefit me in the future.

Hah, that's not stupid. You just didn't know it all. Big difference.

pMcW
11-11-2009, 10:31 PM
I guess he is studying for this: http://www.post.ca.gov/selection/pc832testing.asp

akoba
11-12-2009, 10:27 AM
+1. We are sorely lacking that in the US these days.

Akoba, what is the reason for the class you are studying? Are you working towards getting into sworn law enforcement, going for the guard card, or is this part of getting ready for the citizenship test? BTW...good luck with your citizenship test. Like Cokebottle said, when you take the oath, you will be more knowledgeable that most Americans on the constitution and American laws and our representative form of government. My nanay took the test when she was 72 y/o and she passed with flying colors.

Good luck man,

Keith
Im a caregiver and a security guard. Im taking that PC832 so i can work as a correctional officer.

I think it's great Akoba is taking his citizenship test and wants to learn about the consitution and bill of rights. We need more people doing this, not just new citizens.

Getting off topic, I think his first gun should be a 1911, just to exercise his 2nd Amendment right. :)
I want to know what is the legal laws here in california. Since i just got here last 2007, I don't want to be ignorant and do stupid things and ended up in jail because i didn't know the law.

I have new XD 40.

I guess he is studying for this: http://www.post.ca.gov/selection/pc832testing.asp
Yes sir you are correct.

Meplat
11-12-2009, 5:32 PM
Is the Bill of Right only applicable for US citizen? yes or no?


No. The Supreme Court Of The United States has held that people are people wether they are citizens or not. That combined with the doctrine of equal protection (14 amendment) means that all people within the borders of the US have the same rights. That is why it is a big deal to bring the Guantanimo terrorists to the US.

Meplat
11-12-2009, 5:46 PM
Argghhh one more question please.

Is it applicable only US citizen? Yes or no ?

thanks

No. It applies to all persons and intities (corporations etc.) within the borders of the United States Of America.

It should be said that the constitution is as much a document that defines what the government cannot do to you as it is one that defines what it can do to you. One of the first ten amendments (Bill Of Rights), I think the tenth, says that all powers not specifically granted to the federal government are reserved to the people, or the states.

Meplat
11-12-2009, 5:53 PM
As I understand it, the Constitution guarantees certain protections to all people in the U.S., with the possible exception of enemy combatants/enemy agents and members of our Military. These protections are subject to Supreme Court interpretation.

Priviledges offered or implied by the Constitution apply to citizens only, subject to Supreme Court interpretation.

Again NO.

Ileagle alaians, visitors, leagle immigrants before they are naturalized, ALL enjoy the protection of the US constitution!

For most natural born citizens that is a matter of great pride in fairness.

Meplat
11-12-2009, 6:03 PM
We need more citizens like you.

Thank you sir chuck, sir paul, sir sage and sir cokebottle for a very simple and clear answer. :)

Im a legal resident and migrated last 2002. Im a college graduate. Reading and writing english is not that hard for me. Except speaking. lolz
I screw up my english (speaking) when i start working in middle east for 6 yrs.

To tell you guys the truth, last october i attend and take the PC 832 (Arrest, Search & Seisure) class. On the fifth day when we do the exam, i failed (i got only 79 and the passing score is 84). Im:rolleyes: over confident i think. I remember some of the question that im sure i answer it wrong (that include the bill of rights , spirit VS letter of the law and this US constitution). Yeah im stupid (cause im sure for some of you guys this PC832 is just a piece of cake) But hey atleast im trying to learn something that will benefit me in the future.

So now i have only one chance to re-test again. Otherwise ill have to pay for the class and start all over again.

Thank you guys for all the replies and explanations.

Im glad i join this forum. Thanks to my gun. lolz

sierratangofoxtrotunion
11-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Ileagle alaians

:ack2::banghead:

Cokebottle
11-12-2009, 10:46 PM
I'm glad you quoted that Foxtrot... now we can make jokes about sick birds :p

a1c
11-12-2009, 11:33 PM
I'd just add that aliens with a non-legal status do not have the same 4th amendment rights than US citizens or legal aliens, and that, regarding the 2A, only immigrant aliens or non immigrant aliens with a hunting license can legally purchase or own ammo and firearms.

Shotgun Man
11-13-2009, 9:42 AM
I'd just add that aliens with a non-legal status do not have the same 4th amendment rights than US citizens or legal aliens, and that, regarding the 2A, only immigrant aliens or non immigrant aliens with a hunting license can legally purchase or own ammo and firearms.

Illegal aliens don't have a fourth amendment right against warrantless search and seizure?