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View Full Version : Who says a pistol style grasp is needed.


duraglock
11-10-2009, 9:37 AM
Heres a picture of a person some might know. Hes running his rifle on the left side. Notice his grip it is the same as running a featureless grip left or right. Who says you cant run a rifle without a pistol style grasp. I get tons of questions on running the rifle and felt this picture showed that if you know how to shoot the thumb does not matter.
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/magpullefthand.jpg

Henry47
11-10-2009, 9:39 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

DREADNOUGHT78
11-10-2009, 9:54 AM
Does he have two flashlights on his rifle? I have heard of Back up iron sights but.........

1988
11-10-2009, 9:54 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

Make sure that you'd do it on a good day.... :rofl:

Vtec44
11-10-2009, 10:03 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

Be sure to verify the gender prior to sucking on the nipple..... :eek:

CSACANNONEER
11-10-2009, 10:06 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

Speaking from experience? If not, how do you know it's not the best way to do it?

trapshot68
11-10-2009, 10:07 AM
But he also has a beard that could stop a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. Therefore, he doesn't need no stinkin' thumb to use his AR. Us mere mortals do.

ocabj
11-10-2009, 10:09 AM
A pistol grip is more ergonomic than a traditional rifle stock (i.e. M14). This translates to cleaner/straighter trigger pull, due in part that you aren't cocking the wrist/hand to deal with a traditional stock.

As far as the thumb not being around the grip, not sure why the guy in the photo is doing that with a semi.

I do it with my R5 bolt gun, though. But that's only for rapid fire stages (NRA HP "Across the Course". I just use the thumbstud built into the strong side of the rifle chassis to rest my thumb on, which gives me leverage in the bolt operation. Plus, my rapid fire strings are smoother when I don't wrap my thumb around the pistol grip (less time/effort between bolt operations).

The second video below has a better angle of my trigger hand where you can see how my thumb rests on the strong side.

OczpFAswMWk

ZtMJwLQSRfI

Bug Splat
11-10-2009, 10:13 AM
That looks like Chris. Even looks like his last name on the collar. And, that looks like his gun too. Did I win? :D

ponderosa
11-10-2009, 10:13 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

it CAN be done?? really?

:useless:

sorry...

:threadjacked:

duraglock
11-10-2009, 10:16 AM
ocabj I run my bolt gun the same way with thumb on the same side . I fell it allows for faster follow up shots and does not casue me to cant the rifle . In order the engage the safety on an ar15 without an ambi slector you have to use this style grasp.

Bug Splat
11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
ocabj I run my bolt gun the same way with thumb on the same side as . I fell it allows for faster follow up shots and does not casue me to cant the rifle . In order the engage the safety on an ar15 without an ambi slector you have to use this style grasp.

How funny, I run my bolt actions the same way. I thought I was the only freak who did this.

4thSBCT
11-10-2009, 10:29 AM
Isn't our opposable thumb one of the great advantages of the human race? Why would I hold my rifle with a less secure monkey grip especially on a grip that was designed for a "pistol" style hold. On the other hand he might've been snapped in this pic as he was going for the safety.

Vtec44
11-10-2009, 10:33 AM
I always though that the pistol grip was designed so you can spray fire from the hip. :D

Super Spy
11-10-2009, 10:36 AM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

Just make sure it's a cow not a bull.......I see lots of bull around this place :p

Dirtbiker
11-10-2009, 10:38 AM
Well that guy obviously doesn't know what he's doing... the rifle is on the wrong shoulder. :p

vandal
11-10-2009, 11:17 AM
I don't know if my body has been reprogrammed by the CA OLL laws but when transitioning to or from support side I often wind up with thumb on the same side as trigger finger, even on my pistol-gripped AWs.

I think it has to do with the grip hand-off. Two thumbs on the backstrap doesn't really work. However if you do the Suarez "Macarena" transition you don't have that issue.

Saigon1965
11-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Handled several rifles equiped with Duraglock's grip - Much more ergo than the MMG grip -

dfletcher
11-10-2009, 11:23 AM
That's not a fair comparison - we all know that left handed shooters are naturally more gifted than those folks who shoot off the wrong side, right? :rolleyes:

technique
11-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Does he have two flashlights on his rifle? I have heard of Back up iron sights but.........

One is IR the other is LED.



He only grasps the rifle like that after the transition to support side, to work the safety. Its also quicker even if he is running an ambi to just fire like that VS. taking the little bit of extra time to completely wrap around after the transition.

Duh!:p

Requiem
11-10-2009, 1:16 PM
Jeez... Y'all are so dang closed-minded. If he shoots better or more efficiently that way let him do it. Doesn't mean you have to adopt that style. Shooting is about finding what works best and most efficiently for you after you receive basic guidelines to form a base on. Not about doing every little thing by the book, because not everything works the same for everybody.

till44
11-10-2009, 2:03 PM
This guy obviously has no clue what he's doing. I bet he's never taken a carbine class before this pic was taken.:rolleyes: I'll second Technique's comment, looks like he transitioned to weak side and got on target quickly. Moving the thumb for a few shots is pointless, especially if Costa isn't running an ambi safety.

I love how half the people don't recognize/know who this is a pic of. The pic does show that a non-pistol grip is doable, great ad campaign duraglock.:D

JeffM
11-10-2009, 2:15 PM
I bet mag changes suck like that...

He might be shooting it like that for the moment, but as a few above me posted it's not a way to run a rifle the entire time.

Still, I do prefer to run gripless on most of my rifles and just deal with it to use my pre bans.

pacrimguru
11-10-2009, 2:20 PM
This guy obviously has no clue what he's doing. I bet he's never taken a carbine class before this pic was taken.:rolleyes: I'll second Technique's comment, looks like he transitioned to weak side and got on target quickly. Moving the thumb for a few shots is pointless, especially if Costa isn't running an ambi safety.

I love how half the people don't recognize/know who this is a pic of. The pic does show that a non-pistol grip is doable, great ad campaign duraglock.:D


absolutely, tech and till are correct. it's fine to do a quick reaction side transition with hand off the grip like that, but you would be hard pressed to do most other tactical manipulations under stress without the use of your thumb. great twist of the pic, duraglock. ;)

duraglock
11-10-2009, 3:15 PM
Heres some vid from the Bay Area Rifle Challenge 09
Rifle was an ak with featureless grip wrap. Pac what type of manipulations would a thumb wrapped grip help with im drawing a blank. Yeah I figured some people would see right away who the shooter was. He is in a transition but it was a nice clear picture of how a thumb wrapped grip is not need to pull the trigger and engage targets left or right side.
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/th_MOV02697.jpg (http://s634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/?action=view&current=MOV02697.flv)

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/th_MOV02701.jpg (http://s634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/?action=view&current=MOV02701.flv)

pacrimguru
11-10-2009, 3:46 PM
i'm talking about clearing double feeds on the move, one handed transitions, one handed reloads, etc... all that ninjatastic stuff magpul dynamics teaches. i'm not saying it's not possible with a thumbless, but it's far easier with a traditional grip. you need every advantage when you're in a fight so why limit yourself? train as you would fight.

i'm sure thumbless gripping is fine for bench shooting and even 3-gun competitions. i'm not knocking your product one bit when i say this, but remember the only reason we need to get into products such as your own or the MMG or the myriad bullet buttons for that matter, is that CA gun laws suck and they hate us. you'll never see real world operators use a thumbless set up when the original rifle is designed with a pistol grip. there's a reason for that - they aren't civies that live in CA. haha

that being said, if i ever did build a featurless in the future, i would go with your system in a heartbeat. :thumbsup:

duraglock
11-10-2009, 4:04 PM
Pac for sure a true pistol style grip/hicap mag is best but within the limits of ca like you said train as you fight or compete and for me thats the grip wrap/preban mags. For me Im sticking to featureless so when I do work overseas Im not looking for my bullet button tool.

-hanko
11-10-2009, 4:09 PM
For starters, all branches of the armed services;). As bad as monsterman & other versions are on the AR, they're abysmal on the FAL.

-hanko

tacticalcity
11-10-2009, 4:14 PM
But she’s such a good lookin’ heffer!

I'm a bullet button guy because I find keeping the rifle secure in my hands more important. I added the freelock improved button for trips outside CA.

PonchoTA
11-10-2009, 4:42 PM
Be sure to verify the gender prior to sucking on the nipple..... :eek:

Werd! :yes:

.

Eckolaker
11-10-2009, 4:53 PM
One is IR the other is LED.

What IR light is that?

technique
11-10-2009, 5:14 PM
What IR light is that?

Surefire defenders...Last I recall, one had an IR filter on it (red lens). I could be mistaken.

EDIT: yes, its still the same from last I saw...the top has the IR cover.

Flogger23m
11-10-2009, 5:28 PM
I've been holding my AR-15 and practicing inserting the magazine.

I've been holding it in a way where my hand does not wrap around the grip, as if I were using a featureless grip.

I am inserting the magazine just as quick as I do the proper way.

Not the best way, but it works pretty well.

I am getting a solar tactical grip slip and will keep my BB.

I will switch configurations when I feel like it.

I have a midlength and A2 stock, which looks and feels nice.

Untamed1972
11-10-2009, 5:55 PM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done



:rofl2:

esskay
11-10-2009, 6:06 PM
Hey Duraglock, need some more photographic proof of this?

How about this fella, he might know a thing or two as well. Where's his thumb? :D

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/481480585_xqrsK-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/481481663_VE225-M.jpg

Travis had also transitioned to his support side when I took these pics.

duraglock
11-10-2009, 6:42 PM
Its not possible to run a gun like that. :eek:

NeoWeird
11-10-2009, 6:45 PM
This thread has convinced me! I am going to go take the bullet button off my AR and put a MMG on it. After all, with the bulk of the weight support by the forward pistol grip while it's being pulled into the body, and the collapsable stock adjusted for a rigid hold I won't need my strong hand for support...

...wait...

:dots:

Flogger23m
11-10-2009, 6:50 PM
This thread has convinced me! I am going to go take the bullet button off my AR and put a MMG on it. After all, with the bulk of the weight support by the forward pistol grip while it's being pulled into the body, and the collapsable stock adjusted for a rigid hold I won't need my strong hand for support...

...wait...

:dots:

True. But when you need to reload really quick, all you do is press a button...

...wait...

...grab your tool stick it in a hole to make for a slow and clumsy reload. ;)

Both have their good parts.

IMO, featureless is better for quick magazine changing and tactical shooting.

BBs are better for bench resting.

I will be getting a grip slip and keep my BB and enjoy the best of both worlds.

IMO, that is the way to go.

cal3gunner
11-10-2009, 7:00 PM
,,,

coop44
11-10-2009, 7:10 PM
I read this whole thread, and figured I ought to post something, pistol grips on AR's seem to be (to me) a non issue, I enjoy wrapping my thumb around, it does not feel natural any other way, of course after 35 years why change from the way the rifle was meant to be used. Fast mag changes, so what,
if I haven't hit it with the first 3 rounds, I might as well go home.

J_Rock
11-10-2009, 8:40 PM
Both guys are obviously shooting from the weak side. I do this as well when transition to another shoulder, for one its much quicker than chaning your grip and you can flip the safety on/off easier in that position.

Hey OP, did you ever hear about this thing called context?

con⋅text
/ˈkɒntɛkst/
1. the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.

tankerman
11-10-2009, 8:45 PM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
Looks good to me;
http://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sanlu-photoshops-pretty-girl-drinks-milk-from-cow.jpg

Vinz
11-10-2009, 8:50 PM
Handled several rifles equiped with Duraglock's grip - Much more ergo than the MMG grip - I agree, but you know what it needs?
A textured thumb stop.
Other than that it feels pretty natural.


vinz

JTROKS
11-10-2009, 8:59 PM
That's not a fair comparison - we all know that left handed shooters are naturally more gifted than those folks who shoot off the wrong side, right? :rolleyes:

OK, I'll give you that, but are they much better in sucking milk straight from a cow's nipple?


:)

Steve O
11-11-2009, 5:04 AM
Hey Duraglock, need some more photographic proof of this?

How about this fella, he might know a thing or two as well. Where's his thumb? :D

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/481480585_xqrsK-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/481481663_VE225-M.jpg

Travis had also transitioned to his support side when I took these pics.

Hey hate to cut in, but wasn't there a vid on youtube of Travis sniping form a roof top in Iraq? It was bad ***, and I cant find it...

3GunFunShooter
11-11-2009, 5:40 AM
After reading these 5 pages, it just makes me love my U-15 stock so much.
Yes, I do have a lower with a MM grip.

GM4spd
11-11-2009, 6:09 AM
It may work, but I'm not doing it to my FAL. Even if it felt great(which I'm
not sure it does) it looks terrible. No disrespect to the OP for trying to
make an alternative.:thumbsup: Pete


http://www.fototime.com/4DC70D3EE16C0EB/standard.jpg

SJgunguy24
11-11-2009, 6:33 AM
I've been holding my AR-15 and practicing inserting the magazine.

I've been holding it in a way where my hand does not wrap around the grip, as if I were using a featureless grip.

I am inserting the magazine just as quick as I do the proper way.

Not the best way, but it works pretty well.

I am getting a solar tactical grip slip and will keep my BB.

I will switch configurations when I feel like it.

I have a midlength and A2 stock, which looks and feels nice.

Just remember if you plan to use any Hi caps you gotta lose the bb. Featureless or not, BB= no hicaps.

I did run a MMG on my AR for the longest time. I took it off and modified the pistol grip with a some metal. That feels way better then the MMG.
It's has some offset but I can shoot either side and the rifle feels very natural.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/DSC02419Me.jpg

NeoWeird
11-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Hey hate to cut in, but wasn't there a vid on youtube of Travis sniping form a roof top in Iraq? It was bad ***, and I cant find it...

It wasn't Travis. It was a guy who goes by the name Mookie online. Great guy, real nice, sometimes a bit cocky but he kind of deserves to be. If I remember the details right, it was an embassy with a mob rioting outside it and trying to break in. Mookie, along with several other Blackwater guys were dropped off on the rooftop, they took up defensive positions while the helicopters were swinging small lot after lot of people out. The rifle was a Bushmaster (again, if my memory is serving me right).

Hope that information helps you find it. I'd look myself but I have to get going for a bit.

ETA: **** it, I went and found it anyways. This isn't the original, but it's a copy. This the one you were referring to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jvEbiJLub4

I don't know why, but I always thought Mookie was asian... re-watching it, it looks and sounds quite a bit like Travis. Go figure, I only ever talked to him online.

SuperSet
11-11-2009, 10:26 AM
It was Travis, according to his posting on M4C:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1029

technique
11-11-2009, 10:31 AM
It wasn't Travis. It was a guy who goes by the name Mookie online. Great guy, real nice, sometimes a bit cocky but he kind of deserves to be. If I remember the details right, it was an embassy with a mob rioting outside it and trying to break in. Mookie, along with several other Blackwater guys were dropped off on the rooftop, they took up defensive positions while the helicopters were swinging small lot after lot of people out. The rifle was a Bushmaster (again, if my memory is serving me right).

Hope that information helps you find it. I'd look myself but I have to get going for a bit.

ETA: **** it, I went and found it anyways. This isn't the original, but it's a copy. This the one you were referring to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jvEbiJLub4

I don't know why, but I always thought Mookie was asian... re-watching it, it looks and sounds quite a bit like Travis. Go figure, I only ever talked to him online.

Sorry to have to correct you...but that is Travis...he was featured on the military channel going over the video.
I have also seen his personal photos of the event.

04-04-04 Blackwater Al Najaf! He even built himself that exact SPR with the blackwater logo ^date^ and place to commemorate.

NeoWeird
11-11-2009, 10:36 AM
Sorry to have to correct you...but that is Travis...he was featured on the military channel going over the video.
I have also seen his personal photos of the event.

04-04-04 Blackwater Al Najaf! He even built himself that exact SPR with the blackwater logo ^date^ and place to commemorate.

Went and looked it up myself. Mookie is a guy named Ben. He always referred to it as "I did that" and "his video" and I always assumed he meant it was him IN the video. I'm thinking now I assumed incorrectly and it was Mookie filming with Travis pulling the trigger.

Another site, which is now dead and I couldn't find a cache of it, confirmed that Travis and Ben aka "Mookie Spicoli" were together at that event so it stands to reason I made the wrong assumption on that one.

Good to know it's Travis though.

technique
11-11-2009, 10:41 AM
Ben T. Is a guy that was with Travis (not sure if it was on that mission or not), he's not Asian though as far as I can tell.
Looks more Mexican, Native American to me.

NeoWeird
11-11-2009, 10:48 AM
Ben T. Is a guy that was with Travis (not sure if it was on that mission or not), he's not Asian though as far as I can tell.
Looks more Mexican, Native American to me.

Not sure either. Like I said, I only ever talked to him online. Sounds like I had the people mixed up.

It's kind of funny how small the contractor world is...

eljBRD
11-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Chuck Norris can't die!

Sunshine
11-11-2009, 12:23 PM
^ Leonidas challenges

Dragunov
11-11-2009, 1:56 PM
Personally, I don't like pistol grips, I prefer the McMillan "Tactical" style stock.
I have an SKS w/a Choate ambidextrous stock. I shaved down the "saddle" area of the stock 1.5 inches, installed a cheek pad and added a more "vertical" addition to the handgrip area. I fit it to my hand (left handed) and it's now much more comfortable, practical and looks like an SKS w/a McMillan stock. REALLY cool! :cool2:

Steve O
11-11-2009, 10:02 PM
It was Travis, according to his posting on M4C:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1029

Wow! is there anyway to download that vid?
That's a keeper for sure!

Steve O
11-12-2009, 4:19 AM
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/481480585_xqrsK-M.jpg



So is the bearded guy Chris Costa?
And what is his position in Magpul?

drunktank
11-12-2009, 8:18 AM
Yes, that is Chris.

esskay
11-12-2009, 2:07 PM
So is the bearded guy Chris Costa?
And what is his position in Magpul?

Travis Haley is the CEO of Magpul

Chris Costa is President of Magpul Dynamics, the training arm of Magpul

Prior to that, Travis ran Magpul Dynamics and Costa was Director of Training for Magpul Dynamics

someR1
11-12-2009, 3:03 PM
much easier......

http://i36.tinypic.com/29pqdkk.jpg

Bizcuits
11-12-2009, 3:06 PM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

why you gotta talk about my mother like that... wtf..

Squidward
11-12-2009, 3:08 PM
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done

That's hilarious!!