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View Full Version : Question about markups in for sale


nn3453
11-09-2009, 5:57 AM
I know some people will interpret this as whining. I am not. I am just trying to figure out how the for sale forums work better, so I may use them better. I was under the impression that you listed your item and posted a reasonable price. If it was a common item, you posted it for below what you would pay a dealer/retailer.

Seems like the way things go these days is that sellers post their items at a markup because they know that buyers will try to lowball them so the latter feel like they are getting a deal. In the end, the selling price is close to what it would have been if the seller and buyer didn't engage in this little courtship ritual over PMs. I have a feeling that sellers often engage in auction like activities over PMs (get a bunch of offers and honor the highest one irrespective of when it was received).

Again, I am not really bitter. If that is how it works, that is how it works. I have had better luck selling my items at the listed price on other forums because I usually go with a 10-40% below retail price depending on the item.

Just confused and I want to know as a seller what markup I should post my items at on calguns: 10%? 20%? 30%?

Spyder
11-09-2009, 6:07 AM
Capitalism.

nn3453
11-09-2009, 6:24 AM
Capitalism.


I am all for capitalism. I don't think capitalism says anything about charging a phony markup and then behind the scenes haggling as seems to happen often in the for sale forums.

Cokebottle
11-09-2009, 6:32 AM
An item is worth what someone will pay for it.

Just because we may have seen item X at $75, doesn't mean the person offering it up for sale didn't pay $90 for it.

There's a current thread running (actually started last January) where the seller is asking about $50 more than a local gun shop offers the current version brand new... yet a few members have bumped the thread asking if it's still available. The posted price is $100 below gungallery's listed price.

It can be even worse with vehicles, particularly motorcycles. Someone will buy a new bike, spend $4,000 on accessories, then post it for sale at KBB retail plus $4,000... the truth is, he would be better off stripping the accessories and selling them on FleBay where he might get 50% of their cost. They won't add more than a couple hundred to the selling price of the bike, and the bike is going to sell for somewhere between trade and retail.

Many sellers have unrealistic expectations, especially in today's market. In other cases, they honestly have no idea what the item is worth, so they price it high and hope for the best. Any quick sale is usually followed by "seller's remorse"

And yes... buyers love to lowball. Again, particularly in today's market, nobody wants to spend more than they have to. If I can spend 20% more and get a brand new one, I'm going to do it.

troysland
11-09-2009, 6:33 AM
When someone puts obo next to the price, I understand that to mean all offers considered. In our market economy, the best offer takes the cake. The problem I would have is if someone posts a price and then gradually increases it after someone has committed to buy it at the original asking price. I've yet to see that, but that would make me quite bitter.

freakshow10mm
11-09-2009, 6:53 AM
Price your item what you think the market is and sell for a price you and the buyer agree on.

zman
11-09-2009, 7:47 AM
In the end, the real price is what the market will bear. If nobody bites, that when you see them add the phrase "Price Drop!".

Spyder
11-09-2009, 7:50 AM
Cap. It. Alism.

If you don't want to pay the asked-for price, make an offer. If the seller doesn't want to sell at that price, they can say nope or they can counter offer. That's the way capitalism works.

nn3453
11-09-2009, 7:57 AM
I do comprehend what you guys are saying.

I guess I can make my point better through an example.

Seller posts an item for 20% of what he thinks it will sell for. Buyer "lowballs" him by PMing with an offer than is 20% lower than his asking price. Buyer thinks he is getting a deal. Seller is happy because he got his expected price.

Buyers are automatically used to doing this. So if seller posts an item for what he thinks it will sell for, buyers will try to lowball 20%. So the seller would have been better off posting his item at a price that was higher than his expected price.

I see $600 guns being marked up at $800 and in the end they sell for $600. But if the same seller had priced it at $600, a bunch of buyers will offer him a lot less than $600, which is lower than what the actual market price would be.

So the seller is motivated to always price the item higher. That is why you see so many items that are posted at fanciful prices.

Jicko
11-09-2009, 10:03 AM
I do comprehend what you guys are saying.

I guess I can make my point better through an example.

Seller posts an item for 20% of what he thinks it will sell for. Buyer "lowballs" him by PMing with an offer than is 20% lower than his asking price. Buyer thinks he is getting a deal. Seller is happy because he got his expected price.

Buyers are automatically used to doing this. So if seller posts an item for what he thinks it will sell for, buyers will try to lowball 20%. So the seller would have been better off posting his item at a price that was higher than his expected price.

I see $600 guns being marked up at $800 and in the end they sell for $600. But if the same seller had priced it at $600, a bunch of buyers will offer him a lot less than $600, which is lower than what the actual market price would be.

So the seller is motivated to always price the item higher. That is why you see so many items that are posted at fanciful prices.

Not a good example.... "$600 gun".... how do you justify that being a "$600 gun"? You may THINK that it is a $600 gun... while in someone else's mind... it is a $650 gun? or it is a $550 gun? So, what is "fanciful prices"? you think we should "regulate" the prices that people are allowed to post for their items....

ECON101, free market, man...

And forum rules are rules..... no auctioning off things (ie. must have a price), must have a location, and no thread crapping.... everything else.... it is a free market...

PS. who is there to "regular" how much a share of GOOG or BRK.A should cost?

berto
11-09-2009, 10:23 AM
I do comprehend what you guys are saying.

I guess I can make my point better through an example.

Seller posts an item for 20% of what he thinks it will sell for. Buyer "lowballs" him by PMing with an offer than is 20% lower than his asking price. Buyer thinks he is getting a deal. Seller is happy because he got his expected price.

Buyers are automatically used to doing this. So if seller posts an item for what he thinks it will sell for, buyers will try to lowball 20%. So the seller would have been better off posting his item at a price that was higher than his expected price.

I see $600 guns being marked up at $800 and in the end they sell for $600. But if the same seller had priced it at $600, a bunch of buyers will offer him a lot less than $600, which is lower than what the actual market price would be.

So the seller is motivated to always price the item higher. That is why you see so many items that are posted at fanciful prices.

As a buyer do the expected haggling or don't, it's up to you.

As a seller price however you see fit. Do the expected haggling or don't, it's up to you.

Nobody here is forced to sell or buy for more or less than they feel is appropriate.

Spyder
11-09-2009, 10:55 AM
I sell stuff. I ask more than I'm willing to take for it all the time. If I'd be willing to let someone give me $600 for something but I ask $800, once in a while someone will just pay the $800. That's as good as free money. It would be dumb to not have haggle room.

Same thing for the buyers side. Why say "oh, yea, I'll give you that much for it" instead of making an offer for less. Doesn't make sense to do it any different.

Spyder
11-09-2009, 10:57 AM
...For example. I once sold an old beat up salvage titled 4Runner. It was beat all to hell and I wouldn't have thought it'd bring more than five hundred bucks. I loved the hell out of the truck and didn't REALLY want to sell it, but I threw it on craigslist for $1500. It sold for $1200. I was happy, the buyer was happy. Capitalism, man. That's the way it works.

nn3453
11-09-2009, 11:00 AM
And forum rules are rules..... no auctioning off things (ie. must have a price), must have a location, and no thread crapping.... everything else.... it is a free market...


And I maintain that sellers are conducting auctions behind the scenes by posting an inflated price and waiting for the best offer.

Nevermind, you guys missed the point. The price is decided by the market. Yet, if buyers always make a lower offer and sellers know this and always post a higher price, it penalizes the odd man out seller who does not ask for a price that is higher than market price. Basic game theory. So I wondering what this higher price should be for the seller. I see this going on more on calguns compared to other forums.

Scratch705
11-09-2009, 11:27 AM
this is why i always "lowball". to bypass even the inflated markup that seller put in for haggling.

but then again... that is probably why i haven't had much luck in buying... haha

rct442
11-09-2009, 11:29 AM
And I maintain that sellers are conducting auctions behind the scenes by posting an inflated price and waiting for the best offer.

Nevermind, you guys missed the point. The price is decided by the market. Yet, if buyers always make a lower offer and sellers know this and always post a higher price, it penalizes the odd man out seller who does not ask for a price that is higher than market price. Basic game theory. So I wondering what this higher price should be for the seller. I see this going on more on calguns compared to other forums.

I'm sure it happens, there was a guy selling a M1A Socom for $1400. Another member posted "I'll take it" and sent a PM. Then the seller realized he was asking too little, then sold it to someone else for $1600. Yes it was dick move, and a lot of drama ensued, but the seller got $1600 because that was what some buyer was willing to pay.

If you see some shady dealings, report it to the mods.

I have gotten hosed selling things on the forum, and other time I bought things way below market value. You win some and you lose some...

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/whambulance.jpg

Vinz
11-09-2009, 12:19 PM
And I maintain that sellers are conducting auctions behind the scenes by posting an inflated price and waiting for the best offer.

Nevermind, you guys missed the point. The price is decided by the market. Yet, if buyers always make a lower offer and sellers know this and always post a higher price, it penalizes the odd man out seller who does not ask for a price that is higher than market price. Basic game theory. So I wondering what this higher price should be for the seller. I see this going on more on calguns compared to other forums.
Thats why I like the I'll take it approch. You want it you buy it. If you want to make a deal, try or move on to gun broker.

Don't give up. If you are trying to make a point stick to it.

People sell things to make money not friends. However if a seller wants to drop the price at the point when the money exchanges hands out of the goodness of his heart so be it.

I have sold things cheaper than what I bought them for but only if I need to move to make money on another product.

I can't wait till Gunpal starts a Califonia only auction site. You might be happier there.

vinz

locktime
11-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Maybe there should be a Committee for Pricing that can review all the for sale listings, and set the "correct" price.

Then we can avoid the untidiness of the current situation.

audihenry
11-09-2009, 2:10 PM
It's called negotiation. It has less to do with capitalism (which deals with the ownership of means and modes of production, government intervention or lackthereof, and so on) and more to do with negotiation and perceived value. You don't think private parties did the same thing in the Soviet Union or do currently in Cuba? Except in those places, people actually know how to negotiate, unlike here.

berto
11-09-2009, 2:17 PM
Maybe there should be a Committee for Pricing that can review all the for sale listings, and set the "correct" price.

Then we can avoid the untidiness of the current situation.

Da comrade

chickenfried
11-09-2009, 2:19 PM
Jeebus calguns ain't perfect but there have been some lame complaint threads lately. This stuff ain't rocket surgery :rolleyes:

SgtDinosaur
11-09-2009, 2:30 PM
I dislike haggling, but I do it once in a while. If I think something is overpriced I don't say "I'll take it" and let it go. Or maybe I PM and make an offer (not a lowball offer) for what I think is fair. Or if it's something I really want and it's off-roster I might just offer the asking price. I don't necessarily care if the other guy makes a few bucks as long as I'm happy.

Black Majik
11-09-2009, 3:00 PM
OK, to answer the OP's question. Standard markup is 80%. That is considered fair. Now, someone buy my Smith Model 19. :D

chickenfried
11-09-2009, 3:01 PM
man if you were up north...I'd pm you a lowball

Black Majik
11-09-2009, 3:07 PM
man if you were up north...I'd pm you a lowball

No worries, I get plenty of that down here. :)

elSquid
11-09-2009, 3:26 PM
Nevermind, you guys missed the point. The price is decided by the market. Yet, if buyers always make a lower offer and sellers know this and always post a higher price, it penalizes the odd man out seller who does not ask for a price that is higher than market price. Basic game theory.

It only penalizes the odd man out if he decides to sell to the lowballer. He's free to put "Firm price - Offers ignored" in his for sale post and then delete lowball emails. If the item is "market priced", then it will sell. If it's a good deal, it'll sell within a day. If it's a bargain, it'll sell within 5 minutes. No negotiation needed.

-- Michael

dirtnap
11-09-2009, 4:03 PM
If it's used, it should be about 30-50% cheaper than the price as new. Thats my personal philosophy, and I try to stick to it. Of course there are those times that you actually have to have something and have no choice...

Dr. Peter Venkman
11-09-2009, 5:01 PM
There is a lot of overpriced stuff in the for sale section, like SKSs (I believe 's' is still proper to denote plurality, for the abbreviation is for a word that does not end in 's') marked for well over $400. Simply ridiculous. In the end if you have your eye on something, no harm can be done on sending the seller a PM and offering what you believe to be a fair price.

CABilly
11-09-2009, 7:49 PM
I keep it simple. If I see something at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll express my interest in purchasing. If I see an unreasonable (to me) markup, I move on. I figure if I'm going to sell something, there's no sense in asking a price I don't think is reasonable or people would be willing to pay. I don't want to waste time haggling on either side.

The only time I make an offer different than the asking price is to see if I have anything the seller might want in trade and if we value the item(s) about the same way.


It is frustrating to see some of the pricing, but it's not just here. The best way for me to deal with it is to use line in my sig as my motto.

BigBoyPinoy
11-09-2009, 11:46 PM
If it's used, it should be about 30-50% cheaper than the price as new. Thats my personal philosophy, and I try to stick to it. Of course there are those times that you actually have to have something and have no choice...

Not if its a firearm that has since appreciated in price due to rarity or difficulty of obtaining one in our state. PS if you have any older HK pistols or CF rifles you would like to sell for 30-50% reduction of original prices please let me know...I'll take it!

There is a lot of overpriced stuff in the for sale section, like SKSs (I believe 's' is still proper to denote plurality, for the abbreviation is for a word that does not end in 's') marked for well over $400. Simply ridiculous. In the end if you have your eye on something, no harm can be done on sending the seller a PM and offering what you believe to be a fair price.

I doubt you'll find an SKS for $89 90s sale prices. I did see a NIB Norinco go for $200 I didn't jump on. Also there are some variants that are more desirable due to the limited numbers or unique features. So go buy my Albanian for my asking price. ;)

Rob454
11-10-2009, 9:06 PM
When someone puts obo next to the price, I understand that to mean all offers considered. In our market economy, the best offer takes the cake. The problem I would have is if someone posts a price and then gradually increases it after someone has committed to buy it at the original asking price. I've yet to see that, but that would make me quite bitter.
I agree with you.
if someone is willing to go OBO then prepare for someone else to steal the item from under you. NOW if the price was offered and agreed upon then its only fair to sell it for the agreed on price. I have never ( and I sell stuff on other forums) have ever gone back on my word. ive sold stuff at a loss cause i took the offer when the next day I got offers for more. I dont do pay pal pay friend or whatever else there is. I go by someones word and I sell it for the agreed price. AS a seller I can tell you that ive had people make offers accepted and met. Only for the buyer not to show OR attempt to talk me down further when we meet. When I sell something I look at what else is comparable priced to the item I'm selling and price it at the average. Some things I wont haggle on. i sold a 85 4 runner that was SUPER CLEAN in great condition for 3500$. its what I put it in the sales ad for and I told everyone who called thats the price it wont go down. I did the same with my truck i put it in for 6500 and took 200$ off. I marked it up 200$ and I knew that was my negotiating area. The truck was also super clean great shape. it sold in two days on truck trader. ad came out on thursday guy called friday picked it up saturday. The guy offered me 6000 cash and I politely declined. Then i told him why he needs to pay the extra 300$. I placed a bill for a new computer and a new rack and pinion that were 2 weeks old for 800$. I told him that the truck is in 100% complete running condition. he will not find one thing wrong with the truck and I would gladly drive it to any mechanic if he wants it checked out. I fixed what was wrong with the truck because i simply do not liek selling anything screwed up or hide it from the buyer. If i do sell somethign i tell the buyer everythign I know is wrong with it ( whatever it may be) and let them make a decision. i had 23 calls in 4 days after it sold.


If it's used, it should be about 30-50% cheaper than the price as new. Thats my personal philosophy, and I try to stick to it. Of course there are those times that you actually have to have something and have no choice...

30-50% off. LOL . Unless the guy is seriously hurting for cash its not gonna happen. 10-20% MAYBE 30% f its a not desirable gun off retail ( obviously depending on condition) is the norm IMO. I price my sales about 20% less than what it sells for retail. the way I see it youre also saving on the tax so that is another 10% off the retail price. if its something that is not desirable and even then what is not desirable to you may be a gold mine to someone else.

There is a lot of overpriced stuff in the for sale section, like SKSs (I believe 's' is still proper to denote plurality, for the abbreviation is for a word that does not end in 's') marked for well over $400. Simply ridiculous. In the end if you have your eye on something, no harm can be done on sending the seller a PM and offering what you believe to be a fair price.

Why is it ok for a gun store to sell a used gun for nearly the same price as new or 10-15% less but not ok for a private party to sell it for 10-15% less than retail? I got my SKS for 130$. Does that mean I should sell it for less than i bought it when the average selling price is 300-350$? Why should i take a loss if i don't have to? just because i got a great deal on it does not automatically mean i need to sell it for a loss. I went to the last gun show and I saw SKS rifles for anywhere from 450-800$. So why shouldnt I get as much as I can for my SKS? Just because somene feels that my asking price is high so what? Who's to say what is and isn't high? If my price is high then the gun wont sell. One of the problems is that people immediately remove the price the iotem was listed for and replace it with a SOLD.
So nobody really has a guage to see what said item sold for so that is why you have these fluctuating prices.
I had a M1A back in 1996. I sold it in 1999 cause I needed the money for 100$ more than I paid for it. I kept everything I had for it I simply sold the gun. I recently purchased a Polytec M14. Should I sell that for less than i paid for it just because its "used"?



Point is that if you don't like the price that the item is listed for its your choice to walk away or buy it. If the market supports a rifle being sold for 1200$ even thougit was only 900$ would anyonein their right mind sell it for less than 1200? Or 30-50$ off of the $ 900 original purchase price?
I recently sold a ruger pistol. I waited and waited and waited. i got a bunch of low ball offers two flakes and one buyer I couldnt meet due to conflict in schedule. The two low ball offers I very nicely declined the two flakes agreed on my orice ( probably found it cheaper somewhere else) and the other buyer was in central cal and we were gonna meet cause i was going on vacation. Conflict made it impossible for me to meet.
i've walked away from some things and snapped others up. If I feel the price is reasonable I pay it if i feel its not then I make a offer. Depending on condition or what the item is or how bad i want it i ask 10-15$ off sometimes 25% if its little beat up. if its looks like gone through WWI WWII Korea vietnam and Desert storm well then I basically low low ball but usually the price is already in the dirt.
usually when i sell somethign I sell it because i don't want it anymore. i dont sell it because i need the money that badly. i make it very clear so there is no misunderstanding on the price.

When i say you I dont mean you guys who I used the quotes from. This is a general you we us them they etc

Just my opinion on sales and purchases.

dirtnap
11-13-2009, 8:07 PM
I was referring to the accessory side of the for sale section, stocks, scopes, uppers, junk like that. Complete firearms are a different story and pricing is based on several factors. I don't expect anybody to take a 50% loss on a complete firearm, unless it's for an obvious reason.