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View Full Version : Man dies after shooting at indoor firing range in Van Nuys


Afterburnt
11-08-2009, 9:49 AM
Daily News Wire Services
Updated: 11/06/2009 11:19:45 AM PST

VAN NUYS - A man who was wounded at an indoor firing range in Van Nuys died at a hospital, the coroner reported on Friday.

Paramedics sent to The Target Range, in the 16100 block of Cohasset Street, at 9:50 p.m. Thursday took the man to a hospital, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.

The man, in his 30s, died at the hospital about two hours later, said Assistant Chief Ed Winter of the coroner's office.

Authorities withheld his name, pending notification of his relatives. The circumstances of the shooting were under investigation.

Afterburnt
11-08-2009, 9:52 AM
That's strange I didnt put the little shooter guy there, I just cut and pasted.

Clayface
11-08-2009, 9:52 AM
Damm , I have gone there too. I wonder if it was a self inflicted shot.

yelohamr
11-08-2009, 10:02 AM
After all of the times that I've been at an indoor range, last week I finally noticed all of the bullet holes in the ceiling right in front of the firing line.

JDoe
11-08-2009, 10:44 AM
That's strange I didnt put the little shooter guy there, I just cut and pasted.

The time the story was updated was 11: nineteen :45 seconds...

Here I'll key it in like on a digital clock and I'll get the little blue shooter

11:19:45

LesGrossman41510
11-08-2009, 12:11 PM
what happened?? suicide or some guys started talking S to eachother and lost control.

Hayashi Killian
11-08-2009, 3:04 PM
If he died two hours later it was likely someone shot at him. Suicides are typically instantly fatal, resulting in someone arriving at the hospital DOA. Anyone who's seen a movie where someone shoots themselves knows how it's done, and the 3 common methods (eating the barrel, pointing up from the bottom of the jaw and against the temple) will likely hit the medula or cause enough damage to destroy it, which will kill you within a minute as your heart and lungs no longer have a C&C nucleus, or if not angled right the person will suffer massive hemorrhaging and bleed out fast.

Seesm
11-08-2009, 5:01 PM
bummer anyway...

Swatguy10_15
11-08-2009, 5:06 PM
If he died two hours later it was likely someone shot at him. Suicides are typically instantly fatal, resulting in someone arriving at the hospital DOA. Anyone who's seen a movie where someone shoots themselves knows how it's done, and the 3 common methods (eating the barrel, pointing up from the bottom of the jaw and against the temple) will likely hit the medula or cause enough damage to destroy it, which will kill you within a minute as your heart and lungs no longer have a C&C nucleus, or if not angled right the person will suffer massive hemorrhaging and bleed out fast.

What the? Thats anything but true..Ive transported to the hospital (while working EMS) plenty of self inflicted GSW's who lived..People dont do it right about 80% of the time....Its not fair to speculate..Especially with merely assumptions..The news will tell us what happened..Theyre ALWAYS 100% accurate :cool: rigghhttt.

Cokebottle
11-08-2009, 5:10 PM
The time the story was updated was 11: nineteen :45 seconds...

Here I'll key it in like on a digital clock and I'll get the little blue shooter

11:19:45
Yup... : 19 : without the spaces = :19:

Clayface
11-08-2009, 5:51 PM
What a coincidence, some guy in florida also shot himself on nov 6 while at a shooting range too.

Link
http://www.wptv.com/mostpopular/story/Man-kills-himself-at-Delray-shooting-range/2zGsV8eYfEyE3IVJ__5o7w.cspx

slik556
11-08-2009, 8:41 PM
Very unfortunate and disturbing. What I don't get is if this ends up a suicide and all the other suicides that are happening at gun ranges, Why at the range? What are they thinking, just gonna in a little practice before I off myself..:shrug:

jarhead995
11-08-2009, 8:47 PM
:19: Learn somethin new everyday, but anyway its a shame that these things happen.

smarter
11-08-2009, 8:47 PM
http://www.wptv.com/mostpopular/story/Father-shoots-daughter-while-cleaning-gun/zgSCXG9ThEu8t9S9DDrumw.cspx

Another gun story link right next to the story of the thread topic. Sad.

trinydex
11-08-2009, 9:03 PM
Very unfortunate and disturbing. What I don't get is if this ends up a suicide and all the other suicides that are happening at gun ranges, Why at the range? What are they thinking, just gonna in a little practice before I off myself..:shrug:

the normal scenario is rent gun, kill self. why spend money on buying a gun if you're gonna die?

Cokebottle
11-08-2009, 9:10 PM
the normal scenario is rent gun, kill self. why spend money on buying a gun if you're gonna die?
Why not?
Are you going to use the money after you're done?
You obviously don't care about those you are leaving behind.

I'm using "you" impersonally BTW.

If I were going to off myself, I'd drive to Nevada, buy myself a huge steak and lobster dinner, spend the evening up in Pahrump, then go pick up the biggest, baddest .50 cal I could find and get the job done right.

Quemtimebo
11-08-2009, 9:10 PM
the normal scenario is rent gun, kill self. why spend money on buying a gun if you're gonna die?

Why not?

lehn20
11-08-2009, 9:12 PM
Damn. That is my go to place, when I cant make it outdoors.
Hopefully it will not affect anything.

trinydex
11-08-2009, 9:12 PM
Why not?
Are you going to use the money after you're done?
You obviously don't care about those you are leaving behind.

I'm using "you" impersonally BTW.

If I were going to off myself, I'd drive to Nevada, buy myself a huge steak and lobster dinner, spend the evening up in Pahrump, then go pick up the biggest, baddest .50 cal I could find and get the job done right.

going to nevada and having a last supper requires a lot of resolve. also requires a lot of effort... neither are things i'd be expecting out of a suicidal.

in ca... just not possible to buy a gun on the spot.

Farquaad
11-08-2009, 10:32 PM
Why not?
Are you going to use the money after you're done?
You obviously don't care about those you are leaving behind.
.

You're looking for rational thinking in someone committing an irrational act. Anyway its just plain sad wherever and whenever it happens.

Barney Gumble
11-09-2009, 9:26 AM
I never

ever

ever

go to rental ranges.

Too many weirdos and/or unsafe people who sweep the other patrons with loaded firearms. I'm 45 minutes from the closest range that I like but I would drive two hours if I had to.

bombadillo
11-09-2009, 9:30 AM
I am not a big fan of rental ranges but the only indoor range within 3 hours is a rental so, you take what you can get. I do hope he did it with a large caliber gun at least to make it quick. Hopefully it wasn't a walther p22 or something like that.

Chris M
11-09-2009, 9:37 AM
in ca... just not possible to buy a gun on the spot.

Muzzle-Loader. You're only going to be able to pull the trigger once, anyways.

Super Spy
11-09-2009, 10:14 AM
:19:
I hope it wasn't range rage.....

frankym
11-09-2009, 1:17 PM
Does anyone have anymore info what happened yet?

justin_5585
11-09-2009, 4:42 PM
Muzzle-Loader. You're only going to be able to pull the trigger once, anyways.

I went on a call for a kid I knew from highschool that used a muzzle loader .50 cal in his mouth. It looked like someone cut the top of his head off, pulled out his entire brain, and set it on the ground behind him, total trip.

Mickey D
11-09-2009, 7:21 PM
the normal scenario is rent gun, kill self. why spend money on buying a gun if you're gonna die?

Bypass the 10 day wait. :rolleyes:

acecrash31
11-11-2009, 8:10 PM
The person in question in this forum is my recent ex-boyfriend. He unfortunately committed suicide, something no one really understands. The funeral was today. It's a very sad situation which we are all trying to understand. I have never gone to a range in California. What are the criteria to allow someone to rent a gun? Can anyone just do it? I grew up in the midwest where guns were commonplace. I'm still in shock. Any help would be much appreciated.

B.D.Dubloon
11-11-2009, 8:13 PM
Some ranges require two people to rent a gun, or that you be a member.

Was this guy unstable before you two broke up or does it look like he suicided because of the split?

Was he at all a gun person? I assume not but would like to know.

Gnzrme
11-11-2009, 8:21 PM
How strange this persons 1st post is in here about their ex's suicide...How did they come to learn about us? Anyway, sorry to hear that someone thinks the answer is to take their own life...Very selfish....and I have seen suicides that were unsucessful, so it is not always instantly fatal....

Lead Lobber
11-11-2009, 8:34 PM
Damm , I have gone there too. I wonder if it was a self inflicted shot.

Can you spell ricochet? - it sounds like Rick O'Sheay, an Irish bunny from my youthful television dreams who was a hero Rabbit, as Under Dog is today. No, wait, it was Crusader Rabbit! Anyhow, the range I go to prohibits head shots, because the target is pinned too close to a STEEL frame work.

Shooting lead at steel, stone, et cetera, will produce the ricochet effect. Chevrolet rhymes with ricochet, see?

I'm not that smart, it took me three paragraphs before the spell checker did not burp.

Or, it may be this person sadly shot himself, unaware of the deadly effect of ricocheting bullets. But what does Crusader rhyme with?

Not a rabbit, certainly.

Trapper
11-11-2009, 8:40 PM
The person in question in this forum is my recent ex-boyfriend. He unfortunately committed suicide, something no one really understands. The funeral was today. It's a very sad situation which we are all trying to understand. I have never gone to a range in California. What are the criteria to allow someone to rent a gun? Can anyone just do it? I grew up in the midwest where guns were commonplace. I'm still in shock. Any help would be much appreciated.

At most ranges a shooter needs to be over 21 with valid ID, take a safety test, buy range ammo, and pay the rental fees.

Midian
11-11-2009, 8:42 PM
I have a membership at that dump. (it's a convenient stop on the way home from work...pop in, squeeze off a hundred rounds, you get the idea). I'll swing in there tomorrow night and see if I can get an update.

If they're open, that is.

Lead Lobber
11-11-2009, 8:49 PM
I have a membership at that dump. (it's a convenient stop on the way home from work...pop in, squeeze off a hundred rounds, you get the idea). I'll swing in there tomorrow night and see if I can get an update.

If they're open, that is.

Just a short observation - indoor public ranges suck big time. Aside from poor ventilation, one never knows whom is going to wander in and rent what.

Ready on the right?!

audihenry
11-11-2009, 8:52 PM
The person in question in this forum is my recent ex-boyfriend. He unfortunately committed suicide, something no one really understands. The funeral was today. It's a very sad situation which we are all trying to understand. I have never gone to a range in California. What are the criteria to allow someone to rent a gun? Can anyone just do it? I grew up in the midwest where guns were commonplace. I'm still in shock. Any help would be much appreciated.

Sorry for your loss. Since you knew him, was there any indication that something wasn't right? Depression? Anger?

Just trying to see what to look out for in people who may otherwise harm themselves like this. :(

Lead Lobber
11-11-2009, 9:01 PM
Sorry for your loss. Since you knew him, was there any indication that something wasn't right? Depression? Anger?

Just trying to see what to look out for in people who may otherwise harm themselves like this. :(

Sorry for your loss. This is yet another story of a similar suicide. California requires a lot of stuff, according to the indoor range I visit sometimes.

Never mind, I won't replay self destruction stories I have heard from there. Our problem here is disturbed people playing with trains. Bullets are far smaller and faster, but trains are so much bigger and heavier ....

acecrash31
11-11-2009, 9:06 PM
I found this thread by doing a Google search about the incident. Thank you everyone for your comments and insights.

As for his emotional state before we separated 10 months ago I would say it was okay, but there were signs of anger, alcohol abuse and "self-medicating". I can only tell you what his family told me today about after we separated because I refused to have contact with him. He was abusing alcohol and prescription drugs. He quickly went into depression, was seeing a pschyatrist and had actually been admitted to the hospital on Tuesday before the incident for an attempted suicide. The doctor released him after 6 hours on a 72-hour hold. He killed himself within that 72 hours.

Again, thank you.

mmartin
11-11-2009, 9:18 PM
I found this thread by doing a Google search about the incident. Thank you everyone for your comments and insights.

As for his emotional state before we separated 10 months ago I would say it was okay, but there were signs of anger, alcohol abuse and "self-medicating". I can only tell you what his family told me today about after we separated because I refused to have contact with him. He was abusing alcohol and prescription drugs. He quickly went into depression, was seeing a pschyatrist and had actually been admitted to the hospital on Tuesday before the incident for an attempted suicide. The doctor released him after 6 hours on a 72-hour hold. He killed himself within that 72 hours.

Again, thank you.

very sorry to hear about this, sounds like the doctor should have done better by him. sometimes people are determined to take their own lives and will keep trying until they get it done.
megan

Cokebottle
11-11-2009, 9:29 PM
very sorry to hear about this, sounds like the doctor should have done better by him. sometimes people are determined to take their own lives and will keep trying until they get it done.
megan
Without help, they will. Sadly, help doesn't always work because, like they say, how many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but it takes a long time, and the light bulb has to want to change.

Mom-in-law made three attempts over 10 years that we were aware of. Similar situation... docs released early instead of holding for 72 hours. Got her help, but she refused to take her meds because she felt that people were "gaslighting" her (her words).

Right after Christmas one year, she started complaining of stomach issues, then 3 months later she took 3 bottles of aspirin and completed the deed alone. One of those strange things where my wife had a "funny feeling" and drove down to check on her. Docs said that TOD was within a couple of hours of the discovery. They also said that based on her stomach lining condition, they suspected that she had taken at least one full bottle less than 6 months before she finished the job.

NiteQwill
11-11-2009, 9:44 PM
I found this thread by doing a Google search about the incident. Thank you everyone for your comments and insights.

As for his emotional state before we separated 10 months ago I would say it was okay, but there were signs of anger, alcohol abuse and "self-medicating". I can only tell you what his family told me today about after we separated because I refused to have contact with him. He was abusing alcohol and prescription drugs. He quickly went into depression, was seeing a pschyatrist and had actually been admitted to the hospital on Tuesday before the incident for an attempted suicide. The doctor released him after 6 hours on a 72-hour hold. He killed himself within that 72 hours.

Again, thank you.
Wait. The doctor released him off a 5150 hold within 6 hours? Someone is going to lose their license and go to jail.

B.D.Dubloon
11-11-2009, 9:48 PM
Wait. The doctor released him off a 5150 hold within 6 hours? Someone is going to lose their license and go to jail.

Haha. No. The doctors can release anyone from a 5150 hold at any time. A 5150 hold ALLOWS for a person to be held for UP TO 72 hours, it does not mandate it. At the end of 72 hours (generally) the person must be given a hearing before a hearing officer to determine whether they may be held longer (up to 14 days). After that a new hearing must be granted every 14 days.

SteveK
11-11-2009, 10:58 PM
Mkes sense because he did not own a gun. Never thought of this..

Jpach
11-11-2009, 11:21 PM
Very Strange. Sorry for your loss

acecrash31
11-12-2009, 6:32 AM
One thing I can say is when Jacob set his mind to do something it was going to happen, no matter what. I'm just sorry this was what he wanted to do. I am also sorry he did it in such an open setting. During the two years we were together we had talked about going to that range several times to see who was the better shot. He had been there several times before we were together and a couple time while we were together. Guess what I'm saying is he wasn't a first-timer at that range.
As for the doctor that released him, he was just a medical doctor. Jacob did not have a psych evaluation which I was told you need in order to be released.

WeekendWarrior
11-12-2009, 2:55 PM
WWRTW

Cokebottle
11-12-2009, 3:00 PM
I think it has to do more with the fact that they want to die right here right now. It's the waiting period that gets in the way of their plans, but they can get access to a firearm instantly by renting it.
Or they are a restricted person for whatever reason... and previous attempts with a documented 5150 would be one such reason.

WeekendWarrior
11-12-2009, 3:06 PM
WWRTW

acecrash31
11-12-2009, 5:18 PM
Thank you to everyone. It's a long road ahead.

lehn20
11-12-2009, 7:58 PM
First off, I am glad you got out of a bad situation 10 months ago.


If someone wants to commit suicide, they WILL find a way!. I say let them. What is the alternative?. Drugs and shrinks?. Is that a life to live?.
At least this guy only did himself. Other suicide people at ranges has shoot other people around them before offing themselves.
It is also better than walking in front of a car or train and messing up someone elses life mentally from having run the suicide candidate over!.

I know this could sound cold or harsh to some people, but that's my opinion.

The world has grown soft.

bden
11-12-2009, 8:19 PM
ace...I'm very sorry for your loss. This must be a very difficult experience to go through. Take care and best wishes.

mmartin
11-13-2009, 11:58 AM
If someone wants to commit suicide, they WILL find a way!. I say let them. What is the alternative?. Drugs and shrinks?. Is that a life to live?
sometimes shrinks can save your life.
that's why I'm still here.
without one, I'd have shot myself.

I'm glad I didn't, glad I had an excellent shrink and the stamina to sustain the pain while I did the work. drugs can help some people hold it together long enough to get through what they need to and get on to something better.

I agree 'drugs and shrinks' is no way to live your entire life, but they can serve to get you through the crisis and help you heal what you need to and learn what you need to so you can make a life for yourself again.

megan

Afterburnt
11-13-2009, 4:32 PM
The person in question in this forum is my recent ex-boyfriend. He unfortunately committed suicide, something no one really understands. The funeral was today. It's a very sad situation which we are all trying to understand. I have never gone to a range in California. What are the criteria to allow someone to rent a gun? Can anyone just do it? I grew up in the midwest where guns were commonplace. I'm still in shock. Any help would be much appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. Oddly enough I stopped at a range two weeks ago because I had some time on my hands and thought that they had guns for sale, which they didn't. I hung around jawing with the guy at the front counter and eventually figured I would try out one of their rentals. I was surprised when he told me I couldn't shoot by myself because of liability reasons. I am usually pretty logical but couldn't figure out why they have such a rule. I haven't shot at an indoor range since the 80's and will never consider it again. I cant imaging having someone off them self in the while I am on the line practicing, I would probably give up shooting. Sorry for your loss. I wish I could have had the opportunity to tell the guy that when things are that bad there is only one way to go up, and no matter how bad life gets it is short and the suffering cant last forever and so long as you are alive it can always get better. My sincere condolences.

bubbapug1
11-13-2009, 7:17 PM
Mental illness is a bummer and a very tough road even for a mentally strong individual.

I saw my Dad struggle with it and overcome his demons...kind of. No drugs or booze for him, just violence on the family, mostly my Mom.

I am sure your ex was in extreme pain to want to end his life, and while not condoning what he did, I can understand why he did it. Sometimes things look bleak, and for someone suffering from chronic depression death looks like a good solution...

I would hope his family realizes that what he did, he did himself, and they will not resort to "punishing" the range and doctor out of thier frustration and grief. They also must realize they too let him go off into the world with issues, and that the innocent victims were the ones who saw the carange after he shot himself.

Above all you need to move on and not accept blame for the situation.

acecrash31
11-14-2009, 6:16 AM
In no way is the family blaming the range for sure. As for the doctor, I think they are a little concerned that the doctor might release another patient before the patient is ready, however they know Jacob would have done this no matter what.

As I learn more, he was supposed to be sentenced in a court case on 11/4/09 in which he was probably going to serve some time in jail. He missed the appearance because he had tried to OD the night before. After looking into his criminal history, which I was unaware of until now, he had a long history of incidents with the law, some involving assualt with a knife. I am surprised that gun ranges don't require a brief criminal background check to rent a gun. Is this not a common practice? Again, I am not blaming the range in the least. I feel aweful for the people who were there, I can't even imagine. I am just saying that maybe there should be a more thorough check on a person before a gun is rented out, for the safety of the others there.

yzernie
11-14-2009, 7:30 AM
You had broken up with him, left the relationship 10 months ago and even refused to talk to him afterwards. While these things are always difficult to deal with, people who want to do this type of thing to themselves are rarely deterred. Most will do it no matter what steps are taken to help them.

This is what I see...thankfully you were out of his life when he did it.

CALI-gula
11-15-2009, 9:43 AM
I ....I am surprised that gun ranges don't require a brief criminal background check to rent a gun. Is this not a common practice? Again, I am not blaming the range in the least. I feel aweful for the people who were there, I can't even imagine. I am just saying that maybe there should be a more thorough check on a person before a gun is rented out, for the safety of the others there.

Now I have some mounting doubt about these posts.

.

Cokebottle
11-15-2009, 10:51 AM
Now I have some mounting doubt about these posts.

.
If Ace isn't a gun person, that is a perfectly reasonable expectation. Considering public acceptance of laws that do exist, and acceptance of FUD from the DOJ, AG, and news media, it is quite understandable that one would believe that handgun rentals would be just as restrictive as purchases.

Look at the attitude of free-staters towards California... they are under the impression that anything outside of the mainstream sporting calibers, we're SOL.
Even myself... before I found Calguns... a friend in Wyoming recommended a riot gun setup for HD, and when I saw the Mossy folder, my immediate reaction was "that doesn't look like something I can have in CA".

While the infrastructure is not in place for a background check to be performed promptly enough to allow it's use for rentals, there could (I said "could", not "should") be a system in place similar to the HSC that can be used for rentals that would include a background check for those who don't currently have a gun (or valid HSC).
An inconvenience of a couple of days prior to the first rental every 5 years.

While I would not be in favor of legislation in that direction, it would be better than legislation banning rentals.

yzernie
11-15-2009, 12:39 PM
While a criminal background check may reveal some folks who shouldn't be allowed to have a firearm in their hands I don't think it will be the catch all. Joe Schmoe who has no criminal history and truly wants to commit suicide will still go the the range, rent a gun and do the deed. Not really sure what the solution may be.

Cokebottle
11-15-2009, 12:55 PM
While a criminal background check may reveal some folks who shouldn't be allowed to have a firearm in their hands I don't think it will be the catch all.
Yup...

Same as the current system with 10-day wait doesn't stop the guy with the clean record from buying a gun to rob liquor stores because he can't find work.

Fot
11-15-2009, 6:14 PM
In no way is the family blaming the range for sure. As for the doctor, I think they are a little concerned that the doctor might release another patient before the patient is ready, however they know Jacob would have done this no matter what.

As I learn more, he was supposed to be sentenced in a court case on 11/4/09 in which he was probably going to serve some time in jail. He missed the appearance because he had tried to OD the night before. After looking into his criminal history, which I was unaware of until now, he had a long history of incidents with the law, some involving assualt with a knife. I am surprised that gun ranges don't require a brief criminal background check to rent a gun. Is this not a common practice? Again, I am not blaming the range in the least. I feel aweful for the people who were there, I can't even imagine. I am just saying that maybe there should be a more thorough check on a person before a gun is rented out, for the safety of the others there.


Like you said the guy was the type that once he set his mind he was going to do it he was going to do it. Lets not displace blame on a gun range. He failed at Od-ing, if guns weren't an option, it would have been a train, or a drive off a cliff or something..

acecrash31
11-16-2009, 5:06 AM
Now I have some mounting doubt about these posts.

.

I'm sure you do have doubt, but unfortunately, it is all true.

I may be asking "stupid" questions, but I have never been to a gun range. I'm not blaming the gun range, I just don't know the protocol. I don't know California laws regarding same. I grew up in a small Kansas town where everyone had guns for hunting and no gun range was needed. I've only been in LA for 4 years.

Jacob would have done this no matter what, I wish it just wasn't in a public setting where other people, the people at the range, had to witness it.

I appreciate everyone answering my questions and for all your kind words.