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dantodd
11-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Post-incorporation; are laws and sentence enhancements for possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime constitutional?

I can see where a firearm being used to threaten someone could be part of a criminal case and might trigger enhanced sentences. What I don't see being constitutional is to have a law outright criminalizing the possession of a weapon during a crime. For instance, committing burglary while carrying a firearm. Should this be able to trigger enhanced sentencing or be a separate crime any more than committing burglary while carrying a book on lock picking or listing hiding places most commonly used by middle-aged women to hide their jewelery?

Untamed1972
11-06-2009, 12:10 PM
One has a 2A right keep and bear arms for self defense, not for the purpose of comitting crimes.

Kinda like you don't have a 1A right to incite riots and so on.

nick007g
11-06-2009, 12:24 PM
:iagree:

wash
11-06-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm in agreement but if we get laws that enhance something like speeding ticket fines if you are in lawful possession, I think those could be struck down.

bwiese
11-06-2009, 12:30 PM
"Aggressive" crimes likely will not ever get any 2A protections for any accompanying gun charges - the burglar's gun will continue to be seen as a tool of aggression/intimidation and likely intent of escalation.

Some guy that repeatedly bought some drugs and had a gun under the seat of his car, or who committed some other nonviolent crime where the gun was wholly isolated from the crime might have a different outcome.

But I'm not sure the fight for the above would be worth political damage.

Super Spy
11-06-2009, 12:43 PM
You burglarize a house armed and the potential for that to escalate to murder is easy to see.

dustoff31
11-06-2009, 1:02 PM
One of the very few gun laws I could/would support is a mandatory 20 yr enhancement for use or possession of a deadly weapon during the commission of a felony.

a1c
11-06-2009, 1:18 PM
You gotta be trolling.

dantodd
11-06-2009, 1:27 PM
"Aggressive" crimes likely will not ever get any 2A protections for any accompanying gun charges - the burglar's gun will continue to be seen as a tool of aggression/intimidation and likely intent of escalation.

Some guy that repeatedly bought some drugs and had a gun under the seat of his car, or who committed some other nonviolent crime where the gun was wholly isolated from the crime might have a different outcome.

But I'm not sure the fight for the above would be worth political damage.

Rest assured it was a theoretical question and likely to be addressed by California v. crackhead not a CGF, NRA, SAF etc. lawsuit.

I was really probing the non-violent crimes which is one reason I chose burglary as opposed to robbery.

dantodd
11-06-2009, 1:28 PM
You gotta be trolling.

Not at all. I think most folks here know me well enough to know better.

Amacias805
11-06-2009, 2:46 PM
For instance, committing burglary while carrying a firearm. Should this be able to trigger enhanced sentencing or be a separate crime any more than committing burglary while carrying a book on lock picking or listing hiding places most commonly used by middle-aged women to hide their jewelery?

yes because it becomes a tool to help you further commit the crime, just like a so called burglar kit. just because the burglar doesn't used the crow bar he brought along doesn't mean he just happened to bring it, it means if the opportunity presented itself he would have used it, just like a firearm....



besides, why would you care if they discriminate against criminals, imo they are making things hard for gun owners anyways

Amacias805
11-06-2009, 2:49 PM
non-violent crimes = burglary . ???????:confused:

jeffb502
11-06-2009, 3:14 PM
???????:confused:
Burglary= Entering a structure (or a locked vehicle) with the intent to commit theft or any felony (this is paraphrased...see PC 459 for details). Shoplifting can be considered burglary if a person enters a store with the intent to steal items.

Robbery (taking property from somebody using force or fear...see PC 211), by definition, is a violent crime.

The "felony intended to be committed" during a burglary could be a violent crime (such as rape or murder), or the burglar may just intend to steal some stuff (which is not a violent crime). Just because a burglar may commit a violent crime during the commission of a burglary doesn't necessarily mean that burglary is a violent crime.

Many people confuse the definitions of burglary and robbery, or think they are the same crime. For example somebody comes home and finds their house a mess due to a break-in. They will sometimes call the police and report a "robbery" even though no robbery was committed, just a burglary. It's an easy mistake to make.

Dont Tread on Me
11-06-2009, 3:20 PM
Burglary= Entering a structure (or a locked vehicle) with the intent to commit theft or any felony (this is paraphrased...see PC 459 for details). Shoplifting can be considered burglary if a person enters a store with the intent to steal items.


Nice job on defining burglary. Not many people know that.