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Alecks
11-06-2009, 12:38 AM
If I go to the big Reno show and I find an xdm for sale am I allowed to PPT it?
I know I cannot buy from a vendor because it would have to go back to a CA FFL, correct?

dantodd
11-06-2009, 12:47 AM
No. you cannot ppt out of state and you cannot cause the XDM to be imported.

3GunFunShooter
11-06-2009, 6:04 AM
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B Strong
11-06-2009, 6:23 AM
If I go to the big Reno show and I find an xdm for sale am I allowed to PPT it?
I know I cannot buy from a vendor because it would have to go back to a CA FFL, correct?

Sorry Alecks, you're out of luck on off-roster handgun purchase out-of-state.

Quiet
11-06-2009, 6:53 AM
Federal laws...
Private party transfers between residents of different states must be done through a FFL dealer in the buyer's state of residence.

As a resident of CA, if you do a private party transfer of a handgun in NV, you and the seller will have committed multiple Federal felonies, not to mention violating CA state law.

fd15k
11-06-2009, 6:58 AM
So if a dude from AZ brings his off-roster piece while visiting me in CA,
can it be PPT'ed to me through a dealer in CA ?

Federal laws...
Private party transfers between residents of different states must be done through a FFL dealer in the buyer's state of residence.

As a resident of CA, if you do a private party transfer of a handgun in NV, you and the seller will have committed multiple Federal felonies, not to mention violating CA state law.

tiki
11-06-2009, 7:24 AM
So if a dude from AZ brings his off-roster piece while visiting me in CA,
can it be PPT'ed to me through a dealer in CA ?

Nope. Think about it, would anyone be complaining about the roster if it was that easy? :)
The gun is in AZ and you are in CA, so, the transfer would happen across state lines. It doesn't matter if he drives it here and sells it to you or mails it to you or has UPS bring it to you or if you drive over there and buy it. It is an AZ gun and you are a CA resident. That requires an AZ dealer and a CA dealer which is an ATF requirement. The state part that kills it is the roster, which prevents a California dealer from doing his side of the transaction.
There is an exception that is legal and that is if a parent lives out of state. Not an uncle, not a brother, not someone who was like a father to you while you were in college 12 years ago.
Your parent, living in another state, can give you a firearm thats not on the roster, but otherwise legal. So, they can give you the XDM for Christmas, but they can't give you a .50 BMG or a Walther P22 with a threaded barrel.
I think its even legal for them to sell it to you but I don't have the law in front of me right now. This has been discussed in length before so do a search and you will find it.
The roster, contrary to popular liberal belief, is not there to make sure only safe guns are sold; its there to limit the sale of firearms and to generate revenue. If they were so concerned about safety, then you wouldn't be able to buy it at all. But, they allow private party transfers, they allow law enforcement sales and they allow you to bring them in if you move here from anther state and already own it.

hotwls13
11-06-2009, 7:40 AM
There is an exception that is legal and that is if a parent lives out of state. Not an uncle, not a brother, not someone who was like a father to you while you were in college 12 years ago.
Your parent, living in another state, can give you a firearm thats not on the roster, but otherwise legal. So, they can give you the XDM for Christmas, but they can't give you a .50 BMG or a Walther P22 with a threaded barrel.


SWEET!! My parents are moving to Oregon next year!! Looks like I know what I'm getting for Christmas!! ;)

inbox485
11-06-2009, 8:32 AM
Nope. Think about it, would anyone be complaining about the roster if it was that easy? :)
The gun is in AZ and you are in CA, so, the transfer would happen across state lines. It doesn't matter if he drives it here and sells it to you or mails it to you or has UPS bring it to you or if you drive over there and buy it. It is an AZ gun and you are a CA resident. That requires an AZ dealer and a CA dealer which is an ATF requirement. The state part that kills it is the roster, which prevents a California dealer from doing his side of the transaction.
There is an exception that is legal and that is if a parent lives out of state. Not an uncle, not a brother, not someone who was like a father to you while you were in college 12 years ago.
Your parent, living in another state, can give you a firearm thats not on the roster, but otherwise legal. So, they can give you the XDM for Christmas, but they can't give you a .50 BMG or a Walther P22 with a threaded barrel.
I think its even legal for them to sell it to you but I don't have the law in front of me right now. This has been discussed in length before so do a search and you will find it.
The roster, contrary to popular liberal belief, is not there to make sure only safe guns are sold; its there to limit the sale of firearms and to generate revenue. If they were so concerned about safety, then you wouldn't be able to buy it at all. But, they allow private party transfers, they allow law enforcement sales and they allow you to bring them in if you move here from anther state and already own it.

If the dude you speak of MOVES to CA, then he would be a personal handgun importer, and would have to register that handgun. He would then be free to sale or transfer it to another CA resident.

You can also call in a favor if you have any LE buddies. They can buy it, and then transfer it to you.

The other issue is the mag. If you have some mechanical aptitude, some JB weld and pair of washers or nuts can function as a stop for the mag follower and constitute a permanent conversion to 10 round capacity.

There are several threads on this very topic over at XDTalk if you are still interested.

Quser.619
11-06-2009, 3:19 PM
tiki's correct. I legally own a XDm .40 in California. It was given to me by my mother who lives out of state where the gun is legal. I merely filed the gun w/ the CADOJ & paid a $19 fee via IntraFamily Transfer. The next issue you'll have however is that they do not make a 10round magazine for the gun & it's illegal to import them.

Cokebottle
11-06-2009, 3:33 PM
The next issue you'll have however is that they do not make a 10round magazine for the gun & it's illegal to import them.
That's the second problem with the XDm after finding one that can legally be purchased.
It's gotta be blocked to 10 rounds.

3GunFunShooter
11-06-2009, 4:02 PM
The XDM is nice, but not worth the hassle. I have a XD 9 Tactical with
Canyon Creek trigger job, grip tape, mag release out on weak side. Over 6000 rounds down the pipe. No problems.
Shoots just as good as an XDM. Yes, I've shot the XDM. Just the fact that we can't get it, is why we want it.
Just DROS'ed a XD 45 Tactical. Wanted something that puts bigger holes in the target. Eyes are getting too old to
see the 9MM when shooting IDPA. Plus I can shoot it in CDP and ESP. Just need a minor 45 load.

pat038536
11-06-2009, 5:12 PM
Ok, I got a question on a similar topic...

Me = CA Resident
Friend = Oregon Resident, but is also Oregon LEO

Can Friend buy the off roster pistol and then transfer it to Me while He is visiting Me in CA?

ke6guj
11-06-2009, 5:24 PM
Ok, I got a question on a similar topic...

Me = CA Resident
Friend = Oregon Resident, but is also Oregon LEO

Can Friend buy the off roster pistol and then transfer it to Me while He is visiting Me in CA?nope.

Cokebottle
11-06-2009, 6:14 PM
And that does bring up a situation.
What if a resident of a free state moves to California.
What is the legal procedure to deal with his standard-capacity mags, particularly in the case of the XDm where 10-rounders are not made, and the neutered XD mags won't fit?

The law bans the importation of the magazines, so the situation would have to be handled prior to the physical move.
It would be the same situation for someone who owns a listed lower or something otherwise considered an "assault" weapon.

bwiese
11-06-2009, 6:25 PM
What if a resident of a free state moves to California?
What is the legal procedure to deal with his high-capacity mags, particularly in the case of the XDm where 10-rounders are not made,
and the neutered XD mags won't fit?

Please call them "hicap magazines", "high capacity ammunition feeding devices", etc. Please do not be "pro gun politically correct"; it helps us stop confusion when things are referred to by terms used in the law.

Solution: hicap mags are disassembled before entering into CA.
The hicap mag parts are never reconstructed into hicap mags but are *permanently restricted* to 10rd status thru filler block+epoxy, etc.

There is no standard for 'permanence' so one should damn well conform to a fairly high threshold (i.e, if 11+ capacity were attempted to be recovered, the mag would be well-nigh destroyed). I'm very uncomfortable with the pop-rivet blocked-to-10 magazines for various guns.


The law bans the importation of the magazines, so the
situation would have to be handled prior to the physical move.


Yep.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-06-2009, 7:34 PM
tiki's correct. I legally own a XDm .40 in California. It was given to me by my mother who lives out of state where the gun is legal. I merely filed the gun w/ the CADOJ & paid a $19 fee via IntraFamily Transfer. The next issue you'll have however is that they do not make a 10round magazine for the gun & it's illegal to import them.

The transaction you describe is in violation of Federal law. Residents of two different States must process any firearms transfers through an FFL. The Feds don't have a "family" exemption like California does.

To receive and handgun legally from an out of state parent, while still avoiding the safe handgun roster, your parent must ship the handgun to your local FFL along with a letter explaining that the handgun is a gift from a parent. Your local FFL can then process the transfer as roster exempt. Not all FFL's in California know about this, so you need to ask around first to find one that is willing to do it.

pat038536
11-06-2009, 8:16 PM
Originally Posted by pat038536
Ok, I got a question on a similar topic...

Me = CA Resident
Friend = Oregon Resident, but is also Oregon LEO

Can Friend buy the off roster pistol and then transfer it to Me while He is visiting Me in CA?

nope.

So even if use a CA-FFL its still a no go? I thought that LEO's were exempt from the roster

All I'm seeking is enlightenment.. nothing else

bwiese
11-06-2009, 8:39 PM
So even if use a CA-FFL its still a no go? I thought that LEO's were exempt from the roster


Yes, but that was an Oregon LEO, not CA.
So that would not be a PPT and would be a regular transfer - which requires the gun to be Rostered.

pat038536
11-06-2009, 8:50 PM
That's the answer I was seeking. All it took was asking the right questions.