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hawk84
11-05-2009, 6:20 PM
http://ocarmory.com/services.htm

am i mistaken that it is illegal for them to charge 45$ for pistols and 55$ for rifles + DROS for private transfers?

freakshow10mm
11-05-2009, 6:22 PM
No.

That's for out of state transfers, ie, you buy a gun from another dealer to have shipped to OC Armory for transfer. It's not the same as a PPT.

ke6guj
11-05-2009, 6:27 PM
correct, those prices appear to be OC armory's transfer prices for non-PPT transfers. Those would include any firearms shipped in, or if an out-of-state person brought in the firearm to have transfered to you.

hawk84
11-05-2009, 6:31 PM
ok, they should probably put "out of state" before transfer then

ke6guj
11-05-2009, 6:36 PM
why? That transfer price structure may apply to more than just "out of state" transfers.

I think most people realize that dealers have a "transfer" price that doesn't include PPT transfers.

Mstnpete
11-05-2009, 6:45 PM
I paid $70.00 recently for having OC Armory receive a Romanian Draco pistol for me from out of state. $45.00 for Transfer & $35.00 for dross.

Just be happy that OC Armory will accept any black guns for us CALIFORNIANS. Mike is a good guy to deal with.

And he supports Calguns! He accepted about 15 Romanian Draco pistols from a Group Buy here at Calguns.

dantodd
11-05-2009, 6:46 PM
wow! Seem like pretty good prices. Some folks charge based on the value of the firearm.

And as Jack says, it's for any non PPT transfer, not just out of state transfers. If you buy a gun from anyone who ships the gun in whether they are in Florida or just the other side of the state it isn't a PPT.

psssniper
11-05-2009, 7:08 PM
OMFG!! :eek:

Dude seriously, they are a great shop. Prices are quite fair. Mike is a good guy.
Search, read and learn what the going rates on transfers are before you post full retard;)

leelaw
11-05-2009, 7:14 PM
I paid $70.00 recently for having OC Armory receive a Romanian Draco pistol for me from out of state. $45.00 for Transfer & $35.00 for dross.

Just be happy that OC Armory will accept any black guns for us CALIFORNIANS. Mike is a good guy to deal with.

And he supports Calguns! He accepted about 15 Romanian Draco pistols from a Group Buy here at Calguns.

What? Doesn't sound like a "good guy" if he's charging $35 for DROS.

Cokebottle
11-05-2009, 7:16 PM
wow! Seem like pretty good prices. Some folks charge based on the value of the firearm.
Well... there's something to be said for that. Reference my thread in the Centerfire forum... $53 for an NDS receiver + $35 DROS + FFL... Turner's $125 FFL is a little excessive for a $50 receiver, but less than 5% when added to the cost of some of the Baer 1911 models ;)

But on the flip side, it's not like the FFL has to do anything different for the Baer than he does for the receiver... paperwork, safeguarding and storage during the waiting period, and record keeping are the same... and the 1911 certainly doesn't take up much more room in the safe than the receiver.

ke6guj
11-05-2009, 7:18 PM
What? Doesn't sound like a "good guy" if he's charging $35 for DROS.looks like that might be a typo. $70 = $45transfer + $25 DROS fee. $45 + $35 would be $80.

dantodd
11-05-2009, 8:01 PM
Well... there's something to be said for that. Reference my thread in the Centerfire forum... $53 for an NDS receiver + $35 DROS + FFL... Turner's $125 FFL is a little excessive for a $50 receiver, but less than 5% when added to the cost of some of the Baer 1911 models ;)

But on the flip side, it's not like the FFL has to do anything different for the Baer than he does for the receiver... paperwork, safeguarding and storage during the waiting period, and record keeping are the same... and the 1911 certainly doesn't take up much more room in the safe than the receiver.


There is more liability for more expensive weapons too.

Cokebottle
11-05-2009, 8:17 PM
There is more liability for more expensive weapons too.
Moral liability, but direct cost wise, I don't think a dealer's insurance premiums would be any lower if he put it in writing that he only deals with "cheap" guns.

CSACANNONEER
11-05-2009, 8:20 PM
These prices are for any FFL transfer (excluding PPTs) and not just out of state transfers. If you buy a gun from someone in Humbolt, more than likely, it will need to be shipped to your local FFL who can charge you whatever his/her rates are.

whatmeworry
11-05-2009, 8:23 PM
From what I've seen out there these prices are very reasonable.

freakshow10mm
11-05-2009, 9:05 PM
But on the flip side, it's not like the FFL has to do anything different for the Baer than he does for the receiver... paperwork, safeguarding and storage during the waiting period, and record keeping are the same... and the 1911 certainly doesn't take up much more room in the safe than the receiver.
Storing the 4473 for 20 years, utilities, rent, insurance, wages, payroll taxes, income taxes, maintenance of property, advertising, plus the inherent risk of having a violation and license pulled.

It you think it's so easy to push a pen around as an FFL, get your own FFL then come talk to me once you've been around for a couple years.:rolleyes:

Cokebottle
11-05-2009, 9:11 PM
Storing the 4473 for 20 years, utilities, rent, insurance, wages, payroll taxes, income taxes, maintenance of property, advertising, plus the inherent risk of having a violation and license pulled.

It you think it's so easy to push a pen around as an FFL, get your own FFL then come talk to me once you've been around for a couple years.:rolleyes:
Nope... never said it was easy or that I wanted to do it. I hate pushing pencils and I'm not good at keeping records.
I'm fully aware of the costs of operating a small business... nobody operating a small business is doing it to get rich. If they're lucky, they make a modest living.

My point was that there's no difference in what you do (and there should not be a difference) in handling and processing a $50 receiver, $200 North American, or $3,000 custom 1911.
Your level of responsibility for each one is the same.

Now, God forbid, in the event of a robbery, that Custom 1911 is going to be a harder "ding" on your insurance than the North American.

freakshow10mm
11-05-2009, 9:37 PM
Now, God forbid, in the event of a robbery, that Custom 1911 is going to be a harder "ding" on your insurance than the North American.
Not if it's gold plated and lubricated with tears of virgins.

Mstnpete
11-05-2009, 9:38 PM
What? Doesn't sound like a "good guy" if he's charging $35 for DROS.

Doesn't everyone charge $35 for Dros?
Turners charges $100 for out of state transfers.

Mstnpete
11-05-2009, 9:41 PM
looks like that might be a typo. $70 = $45transfer + $25 DROS fee. $45 + $35 would be $80.

Sorry my bad. That was total transfer & dros = $70.00

Cokebottle
11-05-2009, 9:42 PM
lubricated with tears of virgins.
I keep forgetting you're not in California :D

leelaw
11-05-2009, 9:53 PM
Doesn't everyone charge $35 for Dros?
Turners charges $100 for out of state transfers.

DROS is always $25 MAX

PPT is $35 (DROS plus $10) MAX (for one pistol or longgun)

Out of state, or FFL-FFL transfers are unlimited, plus $25 DROS.

jonni
11-05-2009, 9:57 PM
a gun store near me charges for out of state or FFL to FFL transfer $100 +35 for DROS. Is that a fair price?

Mstnpete
11-05-2009, 9:58 PM
DROS is always $25 MAX

PPT is $35 (DROS plus $10) MAX (for one pistol or longgun)

Out of state, or FFL-FFL transfers are unlimited, plus $25 DROS.

My bad! He charged me $25 for Dros and $45 for transfer totaling $70.00

Still not bad at all!

Mstnpete
11-05-2009, 10:00 PM
a gun store near me charges for out of state or FFL to FFL transfer $100 +35 for DROS. Is that a fair price?

Now that's high!

freakshow10mm
11-05-2009, 10:13 PM
a gun store near me charges for out of state or FFL to FFL transfer $100 +35 for DROS. Is that a fair price?
If you pay it, it's fair market price. If you think it's too much, shop elsewhere.

thedrickel
11-05-2009, 11:05 PM
OC Armory is great. The Bay Area wishes it had an OC Armory. $70 for transfer of a Draco pistol is a steal.

SJgunguy24
11-05-2009, 11:20 PM
OC Armory is great. The Bay Area wishes it had an OC Armory. $70 for transfer of a Draco pistol is a steal.

Not bad, but i've heard better.

lifesgood
11-05-2009, 11:28 PM
If you pay it, it's fair market price. If you think it's too much, shop elsewhere.

I've done business with Mike a few times before, he knows what he's doing and treats you well.....

pullnshoot25
11-06-2009, 12:57 AM
Damn, I really should get into gun cleaning!

Wild Squid
11-06-2009, 1:08 AM
Ditto what everyone else said, and that's actually not too bad of a transfer price, pretty good actually.

OCArmory
11-06-2009, 7:57 AM
I only charge $25 for the DROS fee. I can completely understand why some stores charge a percentage of the value of the firearm. Not only is insurance for your inventory almost impossible to get you also have to think about it this way. If I have $80000 in inventory and am insured for $100000. That gives me $20,000 for customers guns. Normally this would be enough, but (and this happened recently) one customer brings in 2 shotguns valued at over $10,000a piece. All of the sudden you are on the hook for everyone else's guns. Being a small store all I have to offer is customer service and try to get as many transfers as possible.
Mike

Glock22Fan
11-06-2009, 8:12 AM
Nope... never said it was easy or that I wanted to do it. I hate pushing pencils and I'm not good at keeping records.
I'm fully aware of the costs of operating a small business... nobody operating a small business is doing it to get rich. If they're lucky, they make a modest living.

My point was that there's no difference in what you do (and there should not be a difference) in handling and processing a $50 receiver, $200 North American, or $3,000 custom 1911.
Your level of responsibility for each one is the same.

Now, God forbid, in the event of a robbery, that Custom 1911 is going to be a harder "ding" on your insurance than the North American.

Are you really saying that when selling new firearms, a dealer should make exactly the same dollar profit on a $3,000 custom 1911 as he does on a $300 piece of junk? After all, it doesn't cost him any more to handle the 1911, or do the paperwork, so surely the markup (in dollars) should be the same?

And if you are not saying that with regard to new guns, can you not see that there is also some logic in a sliding scale for transfers? Many, many times in life you will find that sliding fees, often a percentage, are charged based on the value of the deal.

Sometimes the higher fees on the larger deals subsidize losses on the lower fees, as in when I took my daughter's hamster to a vet and got a very small bill. I said "I expected a much larger bill." They said "We subsidize children's pets like hamsters out of the profit we make on animals like horses."

Please tell me you aren't that ignorant of business?

freakshow10mm
11-06-2009, 8:59 AM
Being a small store all I have to offer is customer service and try to get as many transfers as possible.
Mike
And we both know transfers are a good source of income for small shops. They also increase foot traffic and entice customers to buy off the shelf for those add ons like ammunition and accessories.

blacksheep
11-06-2009, 9:10 AM
I pay a flat rate of $ 75.00 per gun, very resonable for out of state transfer, considering some dealers wanted to charge me sales tax and a hefty transfer fee.

AngryPossum
11-06-2009, 9:11 AM
considering what other shops charge for out of state transfers I think those pricers are very fair. The cheapest I've seen is a $35 out of state with a $35 Dross out of rio Linda I think. The most expensive was around $100-120 with $35 dross. I've seen this price listed in shops in Sac and San Fran on Gunbroker....now that's a ripoff!

dantodd
11-06-2009, 11:14 AM
Are you really saying that when selling new firearms, a dealer should make exactly the same dollar profit on a $3,000 custom 1911 as he does on a $300 piece of junk? After all, it doesn't cost him any more to handle the 1911, or do the paperwork, so surely the markup (in dollars) should be the same?

And if you are not saying that with regard to new guns, can you not see that there is also some logic in a sliding scale for transfers? Many, many times in life you will find that sliding fees, often a percentage, are charged based on the value of the deal.


the biggest difference is that the dealer must carry a much higher debt and risk of non-sale on a $3000 gun than on a $300 gun. While I don't pretend to know the intricacies of gun store markups I have worked in retail quite a bit and I know there are often times when the markup on a $1000 piece of stereo equipment might be lower, in real dollars, than that on a $300 stereo. The market will dictate what markup is acceptable.

In the case of a transfer there is no inventory issues, no upfront costs etc. The only similarity is the risk of loss or damage.

Cokebottle
11-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Are you really saying that when selling new firearms, a dealer should make exactly the same dollar profit on a $3,000 custom 1911 as he does on a $300 piece of junk? After all, it doesn't cost him any more to handle the 1911, or do the paperwork, so surely the markup (in dollars) should be the same?
No, I'm saying that the reasonable care and handling of a customer's gun with respect to paperwork accuracy and storage should be no different.
A customer's gun is a customer's gun, be it a $10,000 custom piece or a $50 receiver. I would not expect my dealer to be any more or less careful to prevent loss, damage, or theft of one over the other. From a legal standpoint, if it goes out the door, a firearm has gone out the door. An error on paperwork is an error on paperwork... the DOJ and BATF aren't going to care about the value of the gun.

Obviously, the profit $$$ on a large purchase are (or should be) more than a small purchase, even if it is sold at a discount that results in the profit percentage being lower. You aren't going to net $300 on a $200 NAA, and I would certainly hope that you would net more than $300 on a $10,000 custom.

sirnonz
11-06-2009, 1:09 PM
70 bucks is a good price, i pay around 100 bucks here after dros

jeffb502
11-06-2009, 2:38 PM
I paid $45 total for my last out of state handgun transfer. That was less than a year ago. Before getting the $45 quote I had gone to a different FFL and they quoted $90, which I thought was ridiculous. I have since made more purchases at the dealer that charged the $45 fee. In that case charging a lower fee gained the dealer a new customer.

Cokebottle
11-06-2009, 2:42 PM
In that case charging a lower fee gained the dealer a new customer.
Absolutely.

Discount/America's Tire's free flat repair hooked me on them and I haven't bought tires from anywhere else in the last 15 years.

And even if regular prices aren't the best, I'll pay a few bucks more for customer service, selection, and availability.
Same reason I don't even consider WalMart for ammo anymore. It's not worth saving $5 a box if it's going to cost me hours in time locating stock.

zatoh
11-06-2009, 3:45 PM
Yeah, I got the sticker shock from two dealers that I had done business with in the past. Was like $40 -$45 plus DROS, then went up to $100 plus DROS. Also, it seemed like they raised their prices at the same time so it almost seemed like it was collusion. It was also ironic because I was told by one of the dealers that his business was something just to pass the time in retirement. Now I hear he wants to open a full on shop. Yeah, right buddy. Oh well, needless to say I went elsewhere since they never had anything in their "inventory" that I wanted.

I guess CA FFL dealers are basically outsourced state employees.

Cokebottle
11-06-2009, 5:06 PM
If you don't mind the drive and/or live in the high desert, the list in the sticky shows one FFL in Ridgecrest who only charges $10, and one in Bakersfield is only $5, by appointment only.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63050

It's not worth it if you're going to have to spend $30+ in gas and a half a day to make the two trips for paperwork and the pickup, and I don't know if these guys handle OLL, but those are the best deals going if you're in the area.

tygerpaw
11-07-2009, 6:11 PM
DROS is always $25 MAX

PPT is $35 (DROS plus $10) MAX (for one pistol or longgun)

Out of state, or FFL-FFL transfers are unlimited, plus $25 DROS.

All of the local stores that I've dealt with for in-store purchases charge $ 35.00 for the DROS. At Canyon Sports, I questioned why he was charging $35 and not $25 and the big obnoxious guy with all the tattoos got all pissed off and yelled "Its $35.00!!!!" That's why I dont go there anymore. But even Guns fishing and other junk charges $ 35.00 and so does the new store in Vacaville - Center Mass.

ke6guj
11-07-2009, 6:59 PM
a dealer can charge more than $25 for the DROS as long as it is noted that the state fees are $25, and that anything above the $25 is a dealer fee.

popndrop
11-07-2009, 9:18 PM
Mike is good people. The shop is a great place to deal with - always friendly always professional. Very reasonable pricing. The OP needs to do some homework before he starts talking bad about a guys business - that ain't right.

Mayhem
11-08-2009, 11:41 AM
http://ocarmory.com/services.htm

am i mistaken that it is illegal for them to charge 45$ for pistols and 55$ for rifles + DROS for private transfers?

Thats not really that bad. If they allow multiple firearms under one transaction thats a hell of a deal.

Bout the only way you can get better then that is to be really really buddy buddy with an FFL owner. You can always find out who owns the shop invite him to a few shoots and maybe take him out to dinner and a booby bar after. But that only beneficial if you use the out of state thing like buying from gun broker allot.

tenpercentfirearms
11-18-2009, 4:28 PM
It didn't take me long to do a search for a mistaken transfer as a PPT thread. I needed evidence for a customer I was explaining this to so he didn't think the FFLs were colluding.

I can see where a guy that buys a cheap $70 receiver wouldn't like paying twice the cost of the receiver to receive it and I could see where a guy buying a $5000 shotgun would like to pay $70 for the transfer fee. I would rather keep a guy that spends $5K on a shotgun happy personally.

Then that is why I offer to waive your transfer fee if you buy any other long gun from me. Buy a long gun I have and get some value out of that money rather than just pay $50 for nothing. It would make more business sense if I would raise my transfer fee to $100 to make this more enticing.