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dwtt
02-26-2005, 8:51 PM
Because Ahrnold signed AB50, I have to register my Viper before March 30, 2006. Because any gun owner should not trust anything the DOJ people say on the phone, I wrote to the DOJ and asked about shipping a .50cal rifle out of and back into California before it's registered. I also asked about taking it out of state for a match before it's registered. Their letter answered my questions with them rewording my questions to close to what I asked. I assume they didn't want to answer the actual questions I asked. Here it is for those with a .50 cal rifle:

Question 1. If an owner of such a rifle needed to send it to a manufacturer or gunsmith out of state during 2005 for repairs prior to registering as a 50 Cal would this be a lawful activity?

A: The Firearms Division recommends that an owner complete the registration of the firearm before shipping for service or repair. An individual may ship the firearm on their own and may receive it back directly after service in the gunsmith/manufacturer is willing to return without FFL intervention. You should verify the return policy of the facility you intend to utilize for the repair.

Q2. Would the owner have to ship the firearm through a permitted FFL dealer for service or repair? (a permitted FFL is an AW license FFL)

A: It is the owners choice to ship the rifle themselves or to utilize a permitted FFL for shipping. Your choice would be predicated on the return policy of the repair facility.

Q3. Would he be able to have the rifle returned directly to him?

A: See answers #1 and #2

Q4. Woluld he have to register the firearm before shipping out of state?

A: See answer #1 above

Q5. If the owner traveled out of state with the firearm and returned to California with the firearm, must it be registered prior to this activity?

A: California Penal Code section 12280(r) allows this activity for an unregistered firearm during the first 180 days of calendar year 2005 if the firearm was lawfully possessed in California prior to January 1, 2005.

Q6. Must the firearm be registered before I can personally export out of California and import back into California?

A: see answer #5 above.

---------------------------

Sooo, if you have an unregistered .50 cal rifle and wanted to go to Reno for a .50 cal shoot, you can do so only until June or so. It's sad how DOJ reworded my original questions, somehow they just don't sound straight forward now.

dwtt
02-26-2005, 8:51 PM
Because Ahrnold signed AB50, I have to register my Viper before March 30, 2006. Because any gun owner should not trust anything the DOJ people say on the phone, I wrote to the DOJ and asked about shipping a .50cal rifle out of and back into California before it's registered. I also asked about taking it out of state for a match before it's registered. Their letter answered my questions with them rewording my questions to close to what I asked. I assume they didn't want to answer the actual questions I asked. Here it is for those with a .50 cal rifle:

Question 1. If an owner of such a rifle needed to send it to a manufacturer or gunsmith out of state during 2005 for repairs prior to registering as a 50 Cal would this be a lawful activity?

A: The Firearms Division recommends that an owner complete the registration of the firearm before shipping for service or repair. An individual may ship the firearm on their own and may receive it back directly after service in the gunsmith/manufacturer is willing to return without FFL intervention. You should verify the return policy of the facility you intend to utilize for the repair.

Q2. Would the owner have to ship the firearm through a permitted FFL dealer for service or repair? (a permitted FFL is an AW license FFL)

A: It is the owners choice to ship the rifle themselves or to utilize a permitted FFL for shipping. Your choice would be predicated on the return policy of the repair facility.

Q3. Would he be able to have the rifle returned directly to him?

A: See answers #1 and #2

Q4. Woluld he have to register the firearm before shipping out of state?

A: See answer #1 above

Q5. If the owner traveled out of state with the firearm and returned to California with the firearm, must it be registered prior to this activity?

A: California Penal Code section 12280(r) allows this activity for an unregistered firearm during the first 180 days of calendar year 2005 if the firearm was lawfully possessed in California prior to January 1, 2005.

Q6. Must the firearm be registered before I can personally export out of California and import back into California?

A: see answer #5 above.

---------------------------

Sooo, if you have an unregistered .50 cal rifle and wanted to go to Reno for a .50 cal shoot, you can do so only until June or so. It's sad how DOJ reworded my original questions, somehow they just don't sound straight forward now.

Fjold
03-16-2005, 12:37 PM
Can someone build a 50 BMG Ackley Improved in California after 1 January 2005? Is the ban of any new firearm chambered in 50 BMG by name or is it by what round it will chamber?

bwiese
03-16-2005, 1:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Fjold wrote:
Can someone build a 50 BMG Ackley Improved in California after 1 January 2005? Is the ban of any new firearm chambered in 50 BMG by name or is it by what round it will chamber? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The law specifically bans centerfire rifles chambered with exact 50BMG dimensions. There is no specific ban on guns that just use a .50-cal bullet.

In a Q&A session with Randy Rossi and Tim Riegert (dir. & asst dir of DOJ Firearms Div) at a recent Calif NRA Members' Council meeting they confirmed this. But they did add that if the gun in question could chamber - even sloppily, as in case of a 'long' chamber' like a Russan 12mm - you might be in trouble.

But if a 50BMG round can't be chambered, you're 100% legal.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
03-16-2005, 1:57 PM
DWTT...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...if you have an unregistered .50 cal rifle and wanted to go to Reno for a .50 cal shoot, you can do so only until June or so. It's sad how DOJ reworded my original questions, somehow they just don't sound straight forward now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's thru June 31. And you mean .50BMG. Other .50 cals aren't banned http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

With legal, reg'd 50BMGs & AWs, you are allowed to cross in & out of state all day long. (Locked case, unloaded, specific destination requirements, etc. all apply.)

As you quoted DOJ before about your bringing a 50BMG in & out of state:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">[CPC] 12280(r) allows this activity for an unregistered firearm during the first 180 days of calendar year 2005 if the firearm was lawfully possessed in California prior to Jan 1, 2005. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... so file your papers ASAP, send them to DOJ US postal certified/registered mail w/return receipt, and get/keep your own copies along with an attestation letter from a lawyer, along with safely kept copies of my purchase receipt.

Make every effort to fill out your 50BMG reg form correctly & clearly so no processing delays due to back & forth questions. I'd politely ask for expedited processing in my cover letter, telling them of your situation.

You will have til Jun 31 to legally transport your 50BMG in/out w/o having reg paperwork.

[...but I am not sure that travelling in & out of CA with your 50BMG is 'importing'. To me, 'importing' implies a gap in possession. If you're travelling w/your 50BMG in & out of CA and it's with you, and you had it when you left, and had it when you returned, I'm not sure that's considered importing. That's something lawyers could argue...]

Remember, there are far fewer 50BMG regs going on than when SB23 AW regs were taking place in 2000, plus the system has been debugged. So I'd bet your reg would take place easily within 4 weeks if you file reg papers now.

{Even my AW reg came back in early March 2001 when I'd mailed the papers in on Dec. 27, 2000 - a little over 2+ months, when, I'm sure, the system was fully loaded with tens of thousands of reg papers.}

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">DWTT wrote:
Because any gun owner should not trust anything the DOJ people say on the phone, I wrote to the DOJ and asked... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's slightly harsh. If you go beyond basic front-end phone answer people (clerks) you should get to quite knowledgable folks at DOJ Firearms. Yes, borderline conditions should be treated in writing, but I've always had right answers from real firearms people there. Far more than from BATF. Saying that, though, I do have some slightly different opinions from DOJ...

And the DOJ Firearms Div is not the be-all, end-all. Some things are open to interpretation, and there are 58 district attorneys in CA. If you are prosecuted for something, you'd be prosecuted by these DAs, not DOJ. DOJ Firearms provides technical standards and administrative support for enforcement of some firearms laws. It really doesn't enforce the firearms laws themselves - that's up to police + your DA.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">... I asked about taking it out of state for a match before it's registered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, if you are unreg'd + filed papers you have 180 days (til July 1). If I had copies, I wouldn't worry too much about going out/in state w/50BMG after this date. (But I wouldn't wait for even a year to elapse either before questioning DOJ about my reg status!)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If an owner... needed to send it to a manufacturer or gunsmith out of state during 2005 for repairs prior to registering as a 50BMG would this be a lawful activity? (DOJ wrote): "It is the owners choice to ship the rifle themselves or to utilize a permitted FFL for shipping. Your choice would be predicated on the return policy of the repair facility." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree w/DOJ that I'd hold off until I had my reg papers in hand, or at least only do this for 1st 180 days.

But I myself would be leery of sending/receiving a 50BMG directly from out-of-state gunsmith/mfgr repair as I believe all 50BMGs must, starting 1/1/2005, go thru FFL holding a (special, fairly rare) CA AW / 50BMG permit(s). (I may be unclear about that date, perhaps it's 2006 when transport/servicing restrictuions kick in, etc.) I don't agree w/DOJ's initial statement on that and would look into that further.


Bottom line: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI> Much of the above may be moot. If you file accurate 50BMG reg papers now, you should have reg papers in a few weeks. File w/certified mail + return receipt; place follow-up phone call to DOJ Assault Weapons permit unit in about 3 weeks for status check.

<LI> While I always counsel paranoia and watching legal edge conditions, if you have an accurate, good-faith, on-time filing of 50BMG paperwork (and you've kept copies) you should generally be OK for personal transport of your 50BMG in/out of state regardless of 180 days.

<LI> I'd avoid direct shipment of 50BMG to out-of-state repair facility and either transport it there in hand myself or go thru FFL w/CA AW+50BMG permit.
(Right now I'm unsure if this permit is for both AWs and 50BMGs or if separate one for each.)
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Bill Wiese
San Jose