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five.five-six
11-04-2009, 5:13 PM
I have a socom-4 on my aeroprecision .308 rifle, I think of it as more of an adjustable stock than a collapsible stock

kf6tac
11-04-2009, 5:16 PM
Assuming your question (which was not included -- other than perhaps as indicated by the question marks in the thread subject) is whether or not that counts as a collapsible stock, I believe the answer is yes.

ETA: In any event, the actual language used in the statute is "folding or telescoping stock." While the stock probably does not fold, I do believe it adjusts by telescoping.

five.five-six
11-04-2009, 5:19 PM
the thing only moves about 4 inches

kf6tac
11-04-2009, 5:25 PM
Sorry, I added this while you were typing.

ETA: In any event, the actual language used in the statute is "folding or telescoping stock." While the stock probably does not fold, I do believe it adjusts by telescoping.

Sniper3142
11-04-2009, 5:40 PM
Do you have a picture of the stock?

There is a big difference between a Collapsable stock vs. an Adjustable one. For example, the Magpul PRS is an adjustable stock, not a collapsable one.

five.five-six
11-04-2009, 7:18 PM
http://www.ultimak.com/products/M4SOCOM.jpg

Shotgun Man
11-04-2009, 7:42 PM
Do you have a picture of the stock?

There is a big difference between a Collapsable stock vs. an Adjustable one. For example, the Magpul PRS is an adjustable stock, not a collapsable one.

I note the calguns flow chart misspelled collapsable in the same manner as you did.

Collapsible could mean anything. Yikes. Maybe the flowchart should define collapsible.

five.five-six
11-04-2009, 8:23 PM
is it like a disintegrating link?

ke6guj
11-04-2009, 8:34 PM
Maybe the flowchart should define collapsible.

The flowchart can't just include a definition for collapsible unless it can reference a definition in the PC, CCR, or case law. Otherwise you could run into issues with the flowchart defining it one way and CADOJ defining it a different way.

Shotgun Man
11-04-2009, 8:44 PM
is it like a disintegrating link?


Or thread?

bombadillo
11-04-2009, 8:46 PM
http://www.ultimak.com/products/M4SOCOM.jpg

I would say yes that this is a collapsible stock. It is meant to be made longer or shorter with a quick motion. An adjustable would be something like the CAA sniper or Magpul PRS stock. Even an A2 with adjustable comb and length would be OK but I would say that is a no-go you have there.

kf6tac
11-04-2009, 8:47 PM
The flowchart can't just include a definition for collapsible unless it can reference a definition in the PC, CCR, or case law. Otherwise you could run into issues with the flowchart defining it one way and CADOJ defining it a different way.

The definition of "collapsible" doesn't matter anyway, because it's not what the Penal Code says. The PC says "folding or telescoping." As far as I can tell, "collapsible" is just a term that Calguns inserted into the flowchart when it was created. One of the dictionary definitions of "telescope" in its verb form is, "To cause to slide inward or outward in overlapping sections, as the cylindrical sections of a small hand telescope do." From what I can tell, the SOCOM stock in question adjusts by sliding one tube (in increments) into a concentric tube of larger diameter, which would qualify it as "telescoping."

tankerman
11-04-2009, 8:54 PM
The definition of "collapsible" doesn't matter anyway, because it's not what the Penal Code says. The PC says "folding or telescoping." As far as I can tell, "collapsible" is just a term that Calguns inserted into the flowchart when it was created. One of the dictionary definitions of "telescope" in its verb form is, "To cause to slide inward or outward in overlapping sections, as the cylindrical sections of a small hand telescope do." From what I can tell, the SOCOM stock in question adjusts by sliding one tube (in increments) into a concentric tube of larger diameter, which would qualify it as "telescoping."
Well then doesn't the Magpul PRS kind of fit that description as well?

Shotgun Man
11-04-2009, 8:57 PM
Well then doesn't the Magpul PRS kind of fit that description as well?

That's what I was wondering. Good query.

kf6tac
11-04-2009, 9:00 PM
Well then doesn't the Magpul PRS kind of fit that description as well?

I don't really know, as I've never handled one in person. From pictures, though, it looks like at least one of the two rods that hold the adjustable butt portion is threaded - if I were the one making the argument, I'd argue that a threaded rod doesn't telescope.

ke6guj
11-04-2009, 9:01 PM
duh, I totally missed that the AW flowchart changed terminology from telescoping to collapsible. But I still think that trying to parse non-legal definitions of telescoping and trying to use that to determine the legality of a stock that adjusts in length is playing with fire.


Regarding the magpul PRS stock, it has two rods that do slide in/out of another section. The fact that one rod is threaded may not be enough to protect you.

kf6tac
11-04-2009, 9:05 PM
duh, I totally missed that the AW flowchart changed terminology from telescoping to collapsible. But I still think that trying to parse non-legal definitions of telescoping and trying to use that to determine the legality of a stock that adjusts in length is playing with fire.

It probably is. More likely than not, though, the legal definition of telescoping probably encompasses our everyday understanding of telescoping, and then some.